Please see @dblazer 's amazing post on residencies and do school reputation matters. For example, I have looked up 5 years worth of residency matches for Stony Brook, and they have 100% match and to several top programs. My learning from this research is not every T20 med school has a top residency for every specialty. There may be midtier schools that offer a higher experience based on diversity of patient population.
Grit, optimism, passion, and perseverance got us to these acceptances. These are characteristic traits in our DNA - which will carry us farther as well. We all are striving to reshape the healthcare of our country. Not every patient gets treated at Brighams or MSKCC, or HSS. There are several that get treated at the community level and those doctors equally contribute to our society. That is what matters. Truly.
brainbuilder02:
Please see @dblazer 's amazing post on residencies and do school reputation matters. For example, I have looked up 5 years worth of residency matches for Stony Brook, and they have 100% match and to several top programs. My learning from this research is not every T20 med school has a top residency for every specialty. There may be midtier schools that offer a higher experience based on diversity of patient population.
Grit, optimism, passion, and perseverance got us to these acceptances. These are characteristic traits in our DNA - which will carry us farther as well. We all are striving to reshape the healthcare of our country. Not every patient gets treated at Brighams or MSKCC, or HSS. There are several that get treated at the community level and those doctors equally contribute to our society. That is what matters. Truly.
NJUMS by its urban location can be a good ground to have experience with a wide variety of patients and it is reflected in their residency match. Community hospitals and medical professionals practicing at these hospitals are backbone of the healthcare in USA.
Agree 100%. In my research, I have found that our entire health care system depends on recruiting and retaining creative, high-quality physicians to academia - and this reflects in the choice to be in <T20 schools.
Academic physicians lead the way to medical advancements through research in laboratories, at the bedside, and in the community. They are responsible for educating not only medical students and physicians in training, but also practicing physicians through lectures, journals publications, and conferences that disseminate cutting edge medical knowledge broadly. In addition, physicians at academic medical centers are also often the last vestiges of hope for people with inexplicable or complicated medical problems.
However, most of America relies on its community physicians. There is an enormous need for community-based practicing clinicians. By 2025, the United States will face a shortage of 94,700 physicians. Most chronic conditions such as diabetes, heart disease, OB GYN, autoimmune diseases, even oncological conditions are managed by community based physicians.
srk2017
April 14, 2020, 8:54pm
6257
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
As I said before I have nothing against kids (and parents) that chose or choosing BS/MD path and consistently said choose whatever suits you. My issue again is scare tactics used, quoting some doctors and blind advocacy for BSMD. one of the most quoted number is 13% of high stats kids get no acceptance with traditional path but no detailed study on that. If you go by that logic 5.2 vs 3.1 is 67% difference.
I agree with your definition of success but it appears for lot of parents success is defined as becoming a doctor within 7-8 yrs after HS.
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
@brainbuilder02
applestudent23:
NoviceDad:
@TexasTiger2
Many physicians that I know have sent their kids (who were interested in medicine) have sent their kids to BS/MD programs, in many cases letting go of Top 10 undergrad schools like Yale, Columbia, UPenn and Stanford.
It all boils down to personal situation and preference.
Just out of personal curiosity, have the BS/MD programs that they picked over Top 10 been top tier programs (ie HPME, PLME) or have they also picked lower tiers BS/MD programs over Top 10?
I know physician parents who have send kids to UMKC and other lower ranked programs compared to HPME, PittGap etc (not sure if they turned down T10 colleges in favor of BS/MD).
Physician parents may be risk-averse like other parents. They may have an established medical practice which they can pass on to their offspring so the ranking of medical schools is not important. All one needs a licensed MD to run the practice not a brand name university or medical school behind MD/UG. UMKC 6 yr bsmd is a good option for them if S/D can survive the program and come out as a licensed MD.
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
Well said! I commend you for speaking up and for representing your peers who are starting their BS/MD path. I admire your courage for standing up and for providing inspiration to all the current/future students aspiring to become a Doctor.
Hearing negative comments about BS MDs can be demotivating, hurtful and damaging to the high school students about to start their BS/MD journey.
In my opinion, the most important characteristic of a Doctor is his/her compassion, empathy and love for the fellow human being. Without this, being a doctor is meaningless.
Vicky2019:
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
Well said! I commend you for speaking up and for representing your peers who are starting their BS/MD path. I admire your courage for standing up and for providing inspiration to all the current/future students aspiring to become a Doctor.
Hearing negative comments about BS MDs can be demotivating, hurtful and damaging to the high school students about to start their BS/MD journey.
In my opinion, the most important characteristic of a Doctor is his/her compassion, empathy and love for the fellow human being. Without this, being a doctor is meaningless.
Once you start your journey whatever it may be a UG or bsmd pogram please keep posting progress in the experience thread whenever you have time.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/1989563-bsmd-applicants-college-experience-report.html
srk2017
April 14, 2020, 11:33pm
6264
Vicky2019:
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
Well said! I commend you for speaking up and for representing your peers who are starting their BS/MD path. I admire your courage for standing up and for providing inspiration to all the current/future students aspiring to become a Doctor.
Hearing negative comments about BS MDs can be demotivating, hurtful and damaging to the high school students about to start their BS/MD journey.
In my opinion, the most important characteristic of a Doctor is his/her compassion, empathy and love for the fellow human being. Without this, being a doctor is meaningless.
Who made negative comments about BSMD programs (other than the new participant) ? I always said weigh the positives and negatives and select what suits you and alo gave examples of both scenarios.
Also, I don’t think any of the kids who participated commented negatively about either path. It’s the parents and consultants who dominate this thread and come up with -ve stuff to justify their own choices.
srk2017
April 14, 2020, 11:36pm
6265
Again every parent/child makes the decision based on their circumstances. My point was quoting some doctor parents won’t add any value to the discussions.
Ultimately every students situation is unique and one can not generalize which path would be perfect for them.
srk2017
April 15, 2020, 12:03am
6267
MDhopetoget:
Ultimately every students situation is unique and one can not generalize which path would be perfect for them.
That’s what I have been preaching for last 3 years doc
srk2017:
Vicky2019:
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
Well said! I commend you for speaking up and for representing your peers who are starting their BS/MD path. I admire your courage for standing up and for providing inspiration to all the current/future students aspiring to become a Doctor.
Hearing negative comments about BS MDs can be demotivating, hurtful and damaging to the high school students about to start their BS/MD journey.
In my opinion, the most important characteristic of a Doctor is his/her compassion, empathy and love for the fellow human being. Without this, being a doctor is meaningless.
Who made negative comments about BSMD programs (other than the new participant) ? I always said weigh the positives and negatives and select what suits you and alo gave examples of both scenarios.
Also, I don’t think any of the kids who participated commented negatively about either path. It’s the parents and consultants who dominate this thread and come up with -ve stuff to justify their own choices.
@srk2017 -
I was responding to the post from @Brainbuilder02 and his/her point about morale/motivation. A few high schoolers in this forum messaged me privately about morale issues due to the discussions on BS/MD that the new guy started. I was worried about how sensitive teenagers are, especially girls. This was at the back of my mind while responding.
I truly didn’t look at the communication chain to check if you were part of this discussion. Please be assured that my message was not targeted at you.
srk2017
April 15, 2020, 12:24am
6269
Vicky2019:
srk2017:
Vicky2019:
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
Well said! I commend you for speaking up and for representing your peers who are starting their BS/MD path. I admire your courage for standing up and for providing inspiration to all the current/future students aspiring to become a Doctor.
Hearing negative comments about BS MDs can be demotivating, hurtful and damaging to the high school students about to start their BS/MD journey.
In my opinion, the most important characteristic of a Doctor is his/her compassion, empathy and love for the fellow human being. Without this, being a doctor is meaningless.
Who made negative comments about BSMD programs (other than the new participant) ? I always said weigh the positives and negatives and select what suits you and alo gave examples of both scenarios.
Also, I don’t think any of the kids who participated commented negatively about either path. It’s the parents and consultants who dominate this thread and come up with -ve stuff to justify their own choices.
@srk2017 -
I was responding to the post from @Brainbuilder02 and his/her point about morale/motivation. A few high schoolers in this forum messaged me privately about morale issues due to the discussions on BS/MD that the new guy started. I was worried about how sensitive teenagers are, especially girls. This was at the back of my mind while responding.
I truly didn’t look at the communication chain to check if you were part of this discussion. Please be assured that my message was not targeted at you.
I know it’s not targeted at me but I also in general don’t like blank accusations i.e. without naming names. Over last few years lot of kids reached out to me (including @Brainbuilder02 ) in private to discuss traditional path vs BSMD and I gave recommendations based on what they shared with me since I have no bias toward either path and I have nothing to gain.
This will be my last cycle to participate in BSMD threads but I will be posting in the experiences thread I created.
Remember it is a calling, esp now with the pandemic going on you can assess if you really like medicine. Imagine yourself frontline with COVID pts and you will know if you really want medicine.
MDhopetoget:
Remember it is a calling, esp now with the pandemic going on you can assess if you really like medicine. Imagine yourself frontline with COVID pts and you will know if you really want medicine.
Thank you to doctors, and other medical personnel who are on the front line against COVID-19 war.
Kudos! and my heartfelt appreciation.
srk2017:
Vicky2019:
srk2017:
Vicky2019:
brainbuilder02:
srk2017:
It’s human tendency to slack off if hard work is not needed. So will all these students keep same rigor and engage in strong research, clinical and volunteering opportunities while trying to finish UG in 3 years is debatable. I was hoping more students and parents will report in the thread I created 3 years back.
I am not a doctor but my spouse is and was trained at a T5 medical school and does physician interviews. We see a value in going to top tier schools (not monetary gains).
Someone sent me this interesting information and I haven’t checked it myself.
AAMC published attrition rate, which, for the most recent period (2013-14 matriculation year), shows 5.2% of BS/MDs leave medical school, compared to 3.1% MD-only. Interestingly, this is comprised of 2.9% academic/2.3% non-academic reasons for BS/MDs, compared to 1.3%/1.8% MD-only.
These percentage differences are truly very small. Further, as we all know, one cannot compare percentages without seeing the raw data (n/N) that was used to derive these percentages. Once again, to keep up the morale and motivation of several of us that are going down the BS/MD path - no one path is absolutely right. How do we define success is very critical - is it getting into a T20 medical school, getting into a lab with multi million dollar funding, publishing in high impact factor journals, changing treatment guidelines, or truly impacting patient care one day at a time. The burnout in labs that work round the clock like an assembly line is a topic of several publications. Each person swims in his or her own lane, and they define their success, happiness, purpose, and motivation.
I chose medicine because it is my Ikigai - something I can be passionate about, something that will be give a sense of purpose, something that I can earn a living out of, and something that I can help the community with. A true venn intersection of all these four factors. How I get to the intersection - through a traditional path or BS MD is immaterial. As long as I get to the intersection.
I speak on behalf of several of my peers that are embarking on a BS/MD path.
Well said! I commend you for speaking up and for representing your peers who are starting their BS/MD path. I admire your courage for standing up and for providing inspiration to all the current/future students aspiring to become a Doctor.
Hearing negative comments about BS MDs can be demotivating, hurtful and damaging to the high school students about to start their BS/MD journey.
In my opinion, the most important characteristic of a Doctor is his/her compassion, empathy and love for the fellow human being. Without this, being a doctor is meaningless.
Who made negative comments about BSMD programs (other than the new participant) ? I always said weigh the positives and negatives and select what suits you and alo gave examples of both scenarios.
Also, I don’t think any of the kids who participated commented negatively about either path. It’s the parents and consultants who dominate this thread and come up with -ve stuff to justify their own choices.
@srk2017 -
I was responding to the post from @Brainbuilder02 and his/her point about morale/motivation. A few high schoolers in this forum messaged me privately about morale issues due to the discussions on BS/MD that the new guy started. I was worried about how sensitive teenagers are, especially girls. This was at the back of my mind while responding.
I truly didn’t look at the communication chain to check if you were part of this discussion. Please be assured that my message was not targeted at you.
I know it’s not targeted at me but I also in general don’t like blank accusations i.e. without naming names. Over last few years lot of kids reached out to me (including @Brainbuilder02 ) in private to discuss traditional path vs BSMD and I gave recommendations based on what they shared with me since I have no bias toward either path and I have nothing to gain.
This will be my last cycle to participate in BSMD threads but I will be posting in the experiences thread I created.
Teenage years are challenging and your support and recommendations will be appreciated and remembered fondly by them for years to come
Vicky2019:
MDhopetoget:
Remember it is a calling, esp now with the pandemic going on you can assess if you really like medicine. Imagine yourself frontline with COVID pts and you will know if you really want medicine.
Thank you to doctors, and other medical personnel who are on the front line against COVID-19 war.
Kudos! and my heartfelt appreciation.
Thanks and good luck to all making decisions .
I know couple of BSMD students who took gap years once in medical school and I know lot of traditional student who didn’t take any gap years and ended at T20 schools, so different strokes for different people.