***Official Thread for 2020 BSMD applicants***

Testing or not testing – what does it mean as a selection vector? And who might be most impacted? This is my perspective -

Most colleges pre-COVID-19 had a mandatory requirement to submit SAT I or ACT scores. Some required SAT II tests as well. Removing this mandatory requirement will allow students to apply to colleges without any stress. This is clear.

However, TESTS (SAT I or ACT, SAT II’s etc.) are just one of the assessment vectors used currently. The other vectors are GPA, Extra curriculars (leadership, varsity sports, key clubs, competitions, awards), Essays, LORs, etc.

In countries like India, historically testing was the only criteria the colleges used to assess if the student could be admitted or not. (not sure if this has changed now)
In United States, however this was not the case. Most colleges followed a holistic way of assessment and considered all of the above vectors combined as a whole to figure out if a student is worth admitting or not.

I feel, the competition itself will not change for students irrespective of using tests as a vector. The colleges which are historically competitive will now still assess students based on what other criterion in their profile. This is true pre or post COVID-19.

Type A
Students who are strong test takers have benefitted from testing the most. These kids usually have taken SAT II as well as SAT/ACT tests already and scored well before end of junior year. Infact, these students will submit their test results whether these are required by the colleges or not (test optional) even post COVID-19.

Type B
Students who have previously written tests and have not scored well and wanted to take the tests this summer may not be able to do so due to COVID-19. These students may decide not to submit their test scores at all.

Type C
Also, students who procrastinated and did not take tests at all so far, now have no way of completing this requirement. These students now do not need to worry about tests at all.

Both Type B & C categories are likely to benefit if colleges remove this as a selection vector for admission. Out of these two categories, there could be some students who have other ECs (key clubs, leadership, competitive sports, awards etc.) and not having a testing requirement may not impact their application at all.

Now the remaining category of kids (not strong test takes or not having strong ECs) will still need to compete with the rest using the assessment vectors they have such as - GPA, Essays and LORs. These students probably do the same whether testing was an assessment vector or not.

What is most important to note is - there are lot of colleges in US (who don’t care about strong tests or ECs) where students can attend and get an education and end up with decent jobs. This has been true pre or post COVID-19!!

Senior and other Members- Do want to hear what your thoughts are on this.

@blueshell97

It appears that you like RPI/AMC. I would say subjective factors are important when you plant o spend 6-7-8 years at a program.

RPI/AMC is a decent BS/MD program and what you have indicated about the program in your post is true. AMC is a strong established medical school. AMC is one of the largest hospitals in New York state and one of the busiest trauma centers in the region. The patient case is from all over from Upper/ central NY and parts of New England. AMC is also known for its support to its students and is reflected in the BS/MD program as well as the medical school.
AMC’s facilities may come across as old.

AMC’s match results are here - https://www.amc.edu/academic/undergraduate/MatchResults.cfm
This will give you an idea of residency matches (and locations).
Check if that has any bearings on your decision.

If finances are NOT an issue, go to where you are most comfortable and feel you will excel.

@user_476403

With your stats, I will NOT suggest applying to BS/DO programs at this stage.

Focus on your essays and adding elements of ECs which you think you lack and apply to BS/MD programs plus a few regular undergrad programs.

@Vicky2019
For my own son, it is a worrisome time. He started his research internship in fall ‘19 and had planned on it running through this summer and into this fall. All of his ECs have been canceled. His admitted summer programs (BU’s AIM, UF’s SSTP, and CMU’s SAM) have all been canceled. Those little factors that boost his application and would help him stand out are now on hold for however long.

He has done multiple admissions webinars over the past two weeks, and surprisingly many schools are still holding off on going test optional. Georgetown and Duke both are still requiring it for their applications; Hofstra is still requiring the test for their BSMD.

@NoviceDad

My caseload is between 425-455 depending on time of the year. I try very hard to meet with all my students at least twice during their Junior year and once when they return from summer as Seniors. I also offer an application camp afterschool for 6 weeks starting in September for the Seniors so it does help me get to know them on a personal level.

But 16 years into my career- the only reason I have had any exposure to BSMD is because of my own kid. It has been a get educated quick process over the past year!

@NoviceDad

If you don’t mind me asking, what exactly makes me better suited for BS/MD and not BS/DO? It would be helpful for future references. Thank you for your feedback!

@user_476403

You have equal chance like any other students and have covered key areas.
If you are clear about medicine and keen on BS/MD programs, may need to apply to broadly since there are many programs which are equally good like to the few you have specified.

Still you should also apply to selective regular UG programs of your choice since no one knows the outcome.

Unless you know and have done extensive research on pros and cons of DO programs, it is better to try BS/MD and later regular MD and decide than jumping right away to BS/DO programs.

AMC publishes names. If anyone is interested to figure out they can probably look for ORM (I meant Indian names) and check if they did BSMD or not.

@mom2boys1999

First a big thank you for being a teacher / counselor in HS. Teaching is a noble profession but does not get that much appreciation in the world.
But almost every achievers have acknowledged some teacher has inspired and mentored for their success.

In my C school (huge public) there are 2200 HS students and 4 counselors. My C told she never met her counselor until in Senior year to fill some form for LOR from the school. This school will not allow to see the LOR. So we have no idea but it has to be a generic LOR and nothing special.

That is why it is in the best interest of the student to include at least one outsider or even teacher in the school if the child has done any EC or Research so that that person will know the student well to write a personalized LOR.

No Problem and Thanks !!!

Thanks a lot !!!

You are doing an excellent work - the after-school application camp is an innovation that I believe other counselors should adopt.

I agree relatively few kids apply to BS/MD or BS/DO or BS/Dental programs and I see you have an openness to learn.
I have seen many counselors dismiss parents’ concerns about such programs without trying to learn more about it.

@user_476403

Given your stats, as @GoldenRock mentioned, “it is better to try BS/MD and later regular MD and decide than jumping right away to BS/DO programs.”

BS/DO have lower stats requirements compared to BS/MD. Since your UW GPA is not near perfect, as a back up apply to a few BS/DO programs as well IMO.

@mom2boys1999 -
I totally understand what you must be going through. However you are not alone in this. COVID-19 is causing a global pandemic. Since most prestigious summer research programs are only open to HS Juniors, other juniors must be facing the same issue.

The current situation is unprecedented and we cannot predict anything. Most of us have hope that things will go back to normal pretty soon. Colleges such as Georgetown/Hoftra/Duke etc. probably are waiting to see how COVID-19 uncovers.

@mom2boys1999 and other parents of juniors - We are amidst the Corona virus pandemic and there are so many people that need help. If you reach out to the local organizations or search in the internet, you may find a lot of opportunities to help.

Compassion for other humans is the most important feature that all BS/MD programs look for in a candidate.

I see many folks in this forum steering students away from BS/DO on this forum. Would love to hear your reasons for a preference for MD vs. DO specifically, especially in light of articles from experts in the field that seem to indicate that they are both essential equal in terms of quality of education and the qualifications that one gets from either of these programs. In addition, starting this year all DO programs match through the same process as MDs.

https://www.ama-assn.org/residents-students/preparing-medical-school/do-vs-md-how-much-does-medical-school-degree-type?&utm_source=BulletinHealthCare&utm_medium=email&utm_term=092719&utm_content=NON-MEMBER&utm_campaign=article_alert-morning_rounds_daily&utm_uid&utm_effort&fbclid=IwAR3tud7a7PdA6urIx2oeTzBrrbexCGDxTJDrDvVOcoefAM_96fq6VuHQXM4

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristenmoon/2019/01/30/which-is-the-best-path-to-medicine-md-vs-do/#4334b4fa6866

@ParentCA
It is a common question for any one new to medical education. Varied perspectives among folks. Best do Googling and research and decide what is the best option to your specific situation. So much hits you will get for search "DO vs MD ".

Also the other medical site will have lot of threads and posts besides this CC site.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/2164855-do-vs-md.html

@GoldenRock Thanks for the link. Super helpful. I have done a lot of research on the internet and my D has talked to several MDs and DOs and has been told that what matters most are your credentials and a DO with strong credentials should be no less than an MD with strong credentials. However, I do see a lot of folks being discouraged from DO on this forum and was wondering what specific reasons they may have for such discouragement and what information I may be missing here. Thanks again!

@ParentCA

Two things that I can point to you. Unlike most BS/MD programs, BS/DO programs tend to have high attrition rates, for whatever reasons. Secondly they are as expensive as a typical BS/MD program. So why not wait till undergrad, give it a try with MCAT and all before making up the mind whichever way?