In case you haven’t already, please read through the recent posts of the past 4 days or so regarding similar situations. I think you can pursue both interests at PSU, including potential MD/PhD.
Continuing on CUNY profile from earlier, a sampling of recent CUNY students’ achievements.
http://www2.cuny.edu/about/alumni-students-faculty/outstanding-students/os-search/?gy=2017
@@ThoughtWanderer If you believe in yourself and your capabilities, pursue your dream. My two cents, go with JHU(BME) and try for MD/Ph.D later. Being a trained Engineer and a Ph.D., this may seem a little biased advice.
@ThoughtWanderer - Getting 3.7+ GPA is very tough at JHU, but if you think you can achieve it go for it. I know someone with 3.6 GPA and 99% MCAT and didn’t get any top MD programs.
I really appreciate all the info and input.
At Sophie Davis, if I don’t like it there, I can’t really switch out, as other colleges wouldn’t accept the credits. My only choice would be to go to CCNY, which I would rather not go to. At Rice, I could always switch to my state school (Stony Brook) and be basically guaranteed free tuition to a school which is pretty good for premed and the sciences.
@ThoughtWanderer. Like I always say. A bird in hand is better than the two or many in the bush. If you really want to be a doctor then it is a no brainer. Even a lowest of the low level BS/MD is better than an ivy league UG. Believe me when you are all done with medical school etc.you will have no problem even studying undergraduate level BME coursework yourself. However if you are still interested in BME research you can always take a few courses relevant to your research interests later. It all depends on what is more important for you, BME or MD. You should only go for BME if you think it is important enough to sacrifice an MD degree over because choosing that at the schools you mentioned may indeed end up you never getting a chance to go to a medical school.
For everyone else who is facing a similar dilema and is willing to give up a BS/MD admission but are very committed to go to medical school using a traditional route, my advise is to go to a state university close to your home and join its honors college. An honors college at a state university provides you with an excellent undergraduate education, logistically works best for you and your parents, saves tons of money and provides excellent chances to get into a good medical school. I know some of you right now think you can go far away from home and do well but in most cases it does not turn out that way. You need parents close by more than you think you do. I have seen so many of the bright students fail to achieve their dreams because they chose wrong colleges or programs. Keep in mind that most prestigious universities have earned that reputation because of their graduate programs and post-graduate research not due to undergraduate education. Undergraduate education has pretty much a set curriculum and does not matter much where you go. The undergraduate research is almost never more than a semester long and in the presence of faculty, post-docs and graduate students, an undergraduate student is essentially a technician or a pair of hands. I am only bringing it up because I see that some high school students here have a very wrong and fanciful impression of undergraduate research. Just like several other parents on this thread, and as a person who has spent decades in research and development I just feel like we have a responsibility to guide these very bright young men and women.
@moony12 @holytoledo Unfortunately, Drexel does not have a waitlist. They usually give around 60 offers of admission and like @bluemonkey66 mentioned, about 30 accept the offer.
@Dermerk Do you know if tomorrow is the day that NJMS gives the results to the feeder schools or is tomorrow the day that the feeder schools tell the students who have been accepted/denied?
Well articulated! I would like to reiterate a valid point some one here already made earlier this week, especially relevant to those having “a bird in hand” but unable to make up minds because of certain other fancy school/program admissions.
It is just not how good one may be so far, even if you may be valedictorian of the high school with perfect scores in everything, the landscape of competition is going to transform from now on, more so at these fancy schools and programs. Since pretty much every one in your new class is similar to you in credentials, caliber, potential and in more ways than you may think. And with the number of As given in each class and course being a limited few, the outcome is so unpredictable regardless of work ethics, intelligence and track record thus far. It is fine to let go the bird in your hand as long as you are sure it won’t bother you later if you can’t make it to what you currently intend to do in future.
@BSMDDAD you made a statement “The undergraduate research is almost never more than a semester long”.
How do you measure that? Is that something available off common data set? Is this something UG admission office can share with you?
You continued and said “UG research is in the presence of faculty, post-docs and graduate students, an undergraduate student is essentially a technician or a pair of hands. I am only bringing it up because I see that some high school students here have a very wrong and fanciful impression of undergraduate research. Just like several other parents on this thread and as a person who has spent decades in research and development”
Considering your industry expertise, what is your take on Northwestern UG research in Weinberg college (also its home school for us) considering the fact that we don’t have any BS/MD program bird in hand other than SLU med scholar EAP? Other choices are UIC Honors, Ga Tech BME, UIUC BioE, UMich science and son has preference to go to med school. We already rejected Penn State Pre-medicine and Loyola honors over cost factor. Also CWRU, UPenn, JHU (all UG) are wait listed.
Thank you @BSMDDAD, @rk2017, @srk2017 , and @grtd2010 for your input, it really helps me approach my decision with the right perspective. I am also curious to hear from @NoviceDad whose daughter got into HPME (Congrats!!!) of what to make of my conundrum…
All: Don’t rush to make any firm decision until May 1st if you are not sure. Forget about the decision and relax for days and week. And take a fresh look later. For some life is easier when there is no choice or simply only 1 choice.
Strongly suggest to look at various stat tables AMCAS generates and take a deep look at it.
Especially if you are ORM (Asians), take a look at the table facttablea2-6 & facttablea10.
Snippet:
Table A-2.6: Undergraduate Institutions Supplying 50 or More Asian Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools, 2016-2017
Undergraduate Institution /Asian Applicants from the Institution / Total Applicants from the Institution /% of All Asian Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools (it translates to 14000 applicants out of 55000)
University of California-Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA 557 1,011 4.1
Duke University, Durham, NC 163 399 1.2
Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD 153 395 1.1
Rice University, Houston, TX 106 219 0.8
@ThoughtWanderer What is your thought process and rationale on your conclusion that doing BS/MD at PSU will prevent you to doing BioMed Research and MD/Phd.?
I have not looked at closely PSU BS/MD program, but at the same time not sure why that will prevent you to do that.
Since you are ‘dead set’ on becoming doc and BioMed researcher, it is doable since determination and follow up drives the goal and success.
@PPofEngrDr Between NU and SLU, NU is a clear choice. But if finance is a critical factor then need to balance between overall school and total COA among NU and UIC Honors, Ga Tech BME, UIUC BioE, UMich.
@Metsfan7860 First you decide between BS/MD and Regular route. In case if you decide to go for regular route, still take time to decide between StonyBrook (full ride) and Rice (full price). Even if your parents can afford and knowing you are NY in state student, it is hard to justify to forgo StonyBrook. Still you can do well and get in to your desired MD school (though it is harder as an ORM). Agree Rice is great school. But not sure if that will make that much significant difference to your end goal.
@PPofEngrDr. The statement I have made is based on my personal experience in academia and the people I know in academia. You definitely can ask about it from the admissions office of any school you are interested in. In general, undergraduate research can be of two types. One is BS Honors thesis. It is generally one semester long (at some places you may be able to get two semesters for it). In it you work with a faculty member but really you work under a graduate student or a post-doc. You are generally assigned simple routine experiments that the graduate students need data for but do not have time to do themselves. Of course you can get your name on the publication, if any, but the data you generated is generally a small part of the overall paper. You write a small honors thesis and graduate. Unless you put a lot of effort yourself to understand the overall research in that paper, it actually can go against you. When you list that paper on your resume, obviously the expectation is that you should be able to explain it during the interview. I have hardly seen any undergraduates who are able to do it well (regardless of if they came from Princeton or University of Chicago). Most are unable to answer the questions and end up saying that that part not their research and others wrote it. It leaves a very bad taste for the interviewers. We all know that if you put something on your resume, you better have good grasp of it or you should not put it in. Most interviewers look at your resume and ask questions.
Other type of research is what you can do as part of work study or volunteer in a professors lab. That type of research is generally of even a lower level than honors thesis.
Since the undergraduate level research is very basic and routine (only a step higher than routine biology or chemistry lab experiments) it hardly matters which university you go to. (Of course there is some type of research that is done at one place but not the other, your contribution as an undergrad is still pretty limited). I do not know much about what specific undergraduate biology or biomedical research is being done at Northwestern, but I do think it will not be much different in level compared to any other major university e.g., UIC. Looking at your choices since you are very sure about going to a medical school, I would recommend Saint Louis University Med Scholar program. I know some students who went there and were successful and some not. It is by no means an easy program. You have to maintain a 3.65 GPA to qualify for an interview at the end of sophomore year. The interview is however pretty much a formality because the medical school faculty get direct input from your professors. (You get accepted unless you totally mess up your interview and come across non-committed or dishonest. - this is my observation based on very limited data so please do not hold me to it). You have to maintain this GPA thought out undergraduate. I do not believe you will get much better ungraduate education at Northwestern compared to what you will get at Saint Louis University. My two cents.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/
Site to see various data published by AAMC.
@BSMDDAD If the interview is a formality, then SLU can be given consideration. Do you have any data or pointers where it is available to know in the past years, how many admitted to the early assurance program versus how many matriculated?
@GoldenRock. There is some old data available on SDN discussion site. If you ask SLU they will tell you more than 90-95%. But that data is about students who stay in the program and meet the GPA requirements. Actual percentage of the students who got admitted to and got into SLU med school is much lower. Several students leave the program due to different reasons. Many do not meet the GPA requirements. Several others decide medicine is not for them and change their majors. A significant number opt out of the program and apply to other medical schools. A significant number of high achievers go next door to Washington University medical school. Several students move to medical schools in their own states because of cost. One of the students I know (who joined SLU) had the tour guide during orientation who was from Texas and moved back after undergraduate to a medical school in Texas due to cost. SLU medical school is quite expensive and students save a lot by going to a medical schools in their home states.
Here is another issue I would like to mention. Just like all state medical schools (even some private schools) give strong preference to instate students, a lot of residency positions also are preferably filled by instate medical school graduates. Competition for out of state medical students is more stiff. It is especially true at state run or state university hospitals.
@BSMDDAD Thanks for the details. It is true for most of the places. Unless the program is binding, students are going to try out for all the reasons you have mentioned.
At least in @PPofEngrDr situation, still it makes sense to join NU). He has got aid in NU and Illinois resident and it makes sense than going anywhere else including SLU. I doubt UofM will give full ride or that much substantial aid to triumph NU.
@GoldenRock and @PPofEngrDr. NU is of course a great school. NU is a private school so instate does not matter. It depends on how much scholarship is offered by NU vs SLU. SLU generally gives you vice President scholarship worth $22,000 per year for undergraduate which is quite substantial. If his son can stay at home and can commute to NU that may also save money. Also being close to home has definite advantages. These advantages may help his son maintain a good GPA at NU. In turn he will get into a medical school later. However purely on statistical basis, I believe his odds of becoming a doctor are higher at SLU medical scholars than NU undergraduate and going traditional route. Difficult decision. Good Luck. Keep us posted about what you decide.