This is just my humble advice as a student, but my feeling is that one goes to a BS/MD program because they know they want to be a doc and don’t want to bother with the traditional application (AMCAS) process.
From this perspective, the TTU program makes a lot more sense. Although an average boards score of 236 is amazing, that (and higher) is really only necessary for surgical subs/derm - If you want to go FM, IM, EM, or even diagnostic rads, a little over a 226 is good. Like I said, you’re going to a BSMD to not have to deal with the traditional application process and struggles, so why add one more stresser in the GPA and solid MCAT score.
However, if you feel confident with the UH curriculum and you think you can/are willing to study for the MCAT score (which, by the way, is around average for MD matriculants anyways) then UH is the clear option (and remember, boards aren’t everything, but they almost are [boards + MSPE + clerkships + research/pubs make up the majority of an ERAS app with boards being weighed a lot because they demonstrate your ability to pass your ITEs and board exams at the end of residency] - so if you think you want to go for a competitive specialty, definetly UH).
Also, you sound like you’re leaning toward UH in your post (“a lot better,” “closer to home”), so if that’s where you want to go, just make sure you won’t end up having to leave the program because of the GPA/MCAT requirements (and recognize that this may happen).
Daughter went to NW Wildcat day.
Turned out to be a disappointment.
Re: HPME session
Was run by students.
Students were very helpful and tried their best to answer questions.
However no one from the Director’s office or faculty was present. Many questions were left unanswered.
So NW had no parent sessions during HPME interviews and they let students “sell” the program during Wildcat day. I think the “adults” I.e college officials were sleeping on their job!
When parents spend time and money to travel to the school they expect to talk to adults because students at best have a 1-3 year perspective.
Personally they should know “sale” happens at two levels- parent as well as prospective student.
They should learn from PSU/Jeff in this regard - I would regard their sessions during interviews the best among all universities we attended. Note also to Stonybrook.
The gist of these interactions was this:
Most students gravitate to major in Neuroscience or Biological Sciences - driven by overlap between pre-med requirements and need to maintain GPA.
Any TEM i.e Tech / Engg/ Math major was a path to losing your HPME seat - just cannot cope with required pre-med courses and core requirements for that major. Students strongly discouraged such majors. Thankful about their honesty in this regard.
Students change their majors like flavor of the month - It came across as if NW did not care what students were up to.
Having said that, students emphasized the counseling support they get at NW.
Research opportunities exists but frankly matters less for HPME students.
Depending on the batch, HPME Students are either close knit or not.
Students support other students.
Hello @ATX1826 I’ve lived in both cities and visited both schools before. Not taking the MCAT is the main benefit of TTU. But if your child is determined and willing to work hard (plus they’re pretty good at biology/chem), they will be able to pass the MCAT and go to med school. So, provided this, I would choose U of H because it has better opportunities, Lubbock was voted most boring city in the US multiple times. Also, the Texas Tech medical system is not as good as Houston’s system.
I’ve been lurking around on this thread and I thought I should make an account. My daughter is looking into programs around Houston next year, are there any options besides U of H?
To give a benefit of doubt, perhaps the intention of admissions, administration, faculty etc. deciding to stay away to avoid being perceived as a sales force? So that prospective students can have an undiverted and open communications with the current students?
But I expected at least a few to be present though. When we went for the open house last time where D is attending, there were the director and administrator of the program to answer all sorts of questions (from both parents and kids) and later also got to meet the associate dean of admissions at the medical school (an eminent prof. of medicine)
I think the important factor you need to consider is the 3.65 gpa requirement in a highly competitive environment as a priority. Seems a little high for a program like this and the compromises you need to make to achieve that (i.e. sticking to a narrow band of fields of study etc.) as you explained.
@rk2017
Thank you for your response.
Yes - basically options of various majors is a mirage. In that regard, I think Penn/Jeff are actually better - saying you need to major in pre-med rather than these not so exercisable options.
Re: Attrition
Close to zero - my daughter was told 1 student out of 20 dropped out of the program.
@Hakhan - Just want to clarify in case I was not clear, the only difference between UofH and TexasTech is slightly greater GPA requirement for UofH and supposedly harder to maintain GPA @UofH and the need to score 510 or so in MCAT. But both offer a guaranteed admission as long as the requirements are met. There is no AMCAS process for UofH. We are leaning towards TexasTech because at least the kid can have a little bit of freedom and can explore other courses beyond hard sciences.
Thanks for the insights on the residency. What do you mean by MSPE?
@obsidian12 - Thank you for the suggestions. Lack of opportunities is what we are worried about for at Lubbock.
Do you think the kids at Lubbock will have enough research opportunities and clinical exposure interms of cases they see etc.
@NoviceDad
Some other points to consider, as I am not sure whether your daughter attended PSU/Jefferson revisit days at PennState. I attended one of these days last week, as I was struggling between PSU/Jefferson vs other undergrads highly ranked for bioengineering.
I talked to some undergraduate students in the PMM program, as my main concern was access to research opportunities and whether I could effectively pursue my passion for bioengineering at PennState. They cleared many of my doubts about research, as they mentioned that Mr. Markle will specifically search out research opportunities over the summer for PMM students to attend, and that PMM students currently conducting research on campus have been able to transfer their lab spots to new PMM students when they go to Jefferson. Also, it seemed that the students in the program had significant time on their hands to pursue extracurriculars, which I saw as more time for my research.
Furthermore, the students emphasized how tight knit the PMM batch is, especially in undergrad. Considering all this and that there is a bioengineering minor available at PennState and that I will be able to apply for MD/PhD track in the program, I am strongly considering committing to PSU/Jefferson.
Not sure how relevant this info. is for your daughter, but thought it would be good general info. about the program anyway.
Best wishes for your daughter’s decision. It seems she has a very tough choice to make.
@NoviceDad Go to Penn/Jeff. I may be biased towards the Penn/Jeff program as I am attending, but in my honest opinion, it seems as though you are leaning towards the program as well. Northwestern HPME is undoubtedly an excellent program, and it is very understandable to hesitate in declining this offer. In the end, it is completely your family’s decision, and you should not rely on any stranger’s advice on the internet, but allow me to list why Penn/Jeff seems more attractive to me. I have personally broken up the comparison between the BS/MDs into three parts below:
Academic Requirements: HPME’s requirements are quite high, as students must maintain a 3.65 GPA while enrolled in difficult coursework. As many others have mentioned in this forum, the very purpose of a BS/MD program is to alleviate the stress of getting into medical school for students dedicated early on to the medical field. Northwestern is a very competitive and prestigious school, and with that comes high stress and serious dedication to academics in order to maintain that GPA. Students may not have very much time to pursue other interests, and, judging by your daughter’s impressive CMU SCS acceptance, she may not feel comfortable giving up her passion for computer science/engineering to maintain a GPA. Penn/Jeff students generally have much more time to pursue other interests in various other fields and are faced with very low stress. The GPA requirement is a 3.5, lower than HPME, and students are given more flexibility with their coursework. True, HPME has no MCAT requirement, but that doesn’t necessarily make the program more desirable. The purpose of the MCAT is to train undergraduate students for the incredible stamina needed to be a physician. The MCAT serves as an early exposure to this requirement, and ensures students are able to utilize their mind for long periods of time, a key factor to success in medical school. Penn/Jeff’s 504 MCAT requirement should be attainable for any hardworking pre-med student, especially one in this kind of a program. The support system at Penn/Jeff is very strong, and all the cohorts are very tight-knit. The sense of community and lack of cutthroat-competitiveness at Penn/Jeff are very difficult to find anywhere else.
Cost/Location: You mentioned in a previous post that it would cost $170k more to attend NW HPME than Penn/Jeff. Right there is a HUGE reason why you should strongly consider Penn/Jeff. Med school is Med school. $170k IS NOT $0. You also mentioned you are in-state for Penn/Jeff. Your daughter will be close to home, receive an excellent education, and save $170k. Need more reasons? Read on.
Prestige: This is probably the main reason you are still unsure about NW HPME. US News ranking places Feinberg high, so you automatically assume this will be best for your daughter’s future. Analyze it this way: In the end, the diploma will be framed above your daughter’s office, being occasionally glanced at by passersby. Is the Feinberg name writing on that diploma worth $170k? Jefferson has a fine residency match list, an innovative curriculum and plenty of prestigious research opportunities. Utilizing all of those resources, your daughter should receive an excellent medical education. After all, residency positions are given to those who perform well on their boards and at their medical school, not those with fancy names on their diplomas. If your daughter is intelligent and hard-working, which undoubtedly she is, she will place into her dream residency through Jefferson. In the end, we will all be MDs, and whether that be a Feinberg MD or a Jefferson MD will only matter to ourselves.
Anyway, that is my two cents. I’m sure your daughter will be successful wherever she goes. Good luck with your decision!
@TheElusiveGod
One small thing you forgot is Penn State Football- there is nothing like a “white out” event…i know this is not research or academic but let’s be honest folks–one life and one college experience…though i have to admit this past year started great and ended little disappointing…
We Are…
Penn State
@ATX1826
There will be a decent and acceptable amount of experience opportunity in Lubbock, but comparing that to Houston, which is one of the largest medical centers in the country is difficult. My daughter has a friend attending the UMSI program and many students desperately want to take the MCAT so they can escape the location and low quality of the classes, but are also afraid of breaking the contract.
@TheElusiveGod mentioned the match rates at Jeff - Jeff has a history of great ortho match rates especially. If you didn’t know, ortho is one of the competitive surgical subs and the fact that Jeff has good matches in this field says a lot. Although Feinberg has significantly higher boards scores like TheElusiveGod says, the cost and IS factor I think tips the scales.
Congrats on admission to two (2+) VERY competitive BSMDs and I wish your daughter the best of luck in her college experience!
By the way, I’m currently an HS sophomore and PSU/Jeff is currently my dream school, that’s amazing that your daughter has these great options.
Also, take my advice with a grain of salt because like I said, I’m an HS Sophomore (I’ve talked with alumni of PSU/Jeff, however) and not in any position like TheElusiveGod.
@rk2017 Thank you for your information. I will definitely look into Baylor, especially since it’s close to home. I’ve heard they only take 8 kids internationally though, so super competitive.
@TheElusiveGod Like I said above, I’m very interested in PSU/Jeff and had a question about the interview process - how much did the student interviews have an impact on admissions?
The PSU/Jeff alumni I talked to basically said that if the progs wanted you there, you were basically in [accepted].
However, this specific alumni graduated in the class of 2000. Is this still true (if so, I need to build relationships with progs somehow)?
@ATX1826
Right, I was saying that kids went to BSMDs to not have to deal with things like AMCAS and MCAT/GPA reqs. Sorry if I was unclear.
MSPE is the medical college dean’s letter of recommendation for a student, it talks about students performance in clerkships and other topics.
If you’re aware of and comfortable with the rate of attrition and the extra req’s at UH, then, by all means, I do think it is the better option, holistically considered.
kids who got into competitive BSMD programs shouldn’t be worrying about getting around 90 percentile in MCAT. MCAT scores are indicative of future USMLE scores and that’s why most schools have MCAT requirement. I would focus on GPA and stress levels at various schools.