<p>sometimes this really annoys me. im in french school and have been learning english since grade 8. so obviously my english is weak. on the sat i find the maths section to be really easy but the cr and wr are HARD. english is my weakest language between the 3 others that i speak/write (fluently). i dont understand why i dont get any kind of advantage for american schools!! us students are doing all these crap ap ib stuff and have been talking/writing english since they were born how the hell can i be compared to an american student? i studied like hell to pull off a 520 on thr cr section. i m sure ivy s wont even look at me because of my english . personally i find this really unfair. and this is the case with many students in my school who easy get 800 s on the math section but crappy score on the two other sections. opinion?</p>
<p>I usually like to be positive, but IMO this is both a rude and an unfair post. Although English is your second language, you seem to have learned to curse pretty well. </p>
<p>I recognize that America is blessed to have many wonderful colleges and universities, but nobody is forcing you to come to the US for college. If French is your first language, there are wonderful schools in France. But if you do CHOOSE to come to the US, you will need to speak, read, and write in all English and your work will be judged and graded accordingly – it is not up to a college to provide remediation for language skills. The top tier (Ivy level) schools already have way more qualified candidates (domestic and international) than they can accept. It is appropriate that your ability to read and write in English is tested and meets the standard of the school you would like to attend. I don’t think that is outrageous. If a US student chooses to study in a non-English speaking country, I would expect the same treatment.</p>
<p>Some international students choose to do a post-grad year at a US prep school to improve their English skills. Others go to the best college or university they get into and work to improve their skills. </p>
<p>I suggest that you take a deep breath and recognize that a college education in the US is a privilege, not a right. Many very bright and hardworking students (US and international) do not qualify for or get into Ivy League or equivalent schools and life continues.</p>
<p>in my opinion the number 1university in france= number 100 in the us (like perdue maybe).thats why i dont want to study in france</p>
<p>Sent from my GT-I9300 using CC</p>
<p>but imo they should give a very slight advantage to students like me .and i will repeat it again english is my 4th language and i got a 520 on the Cr section… i guess im just unlucky i wasnt brought up and born in the us</p>
<p>Sent from my GT-I9300 using CC</p>
<p>We will have to agree to disagree. However, I do think that colleges will see you are an international student and take that into account. But please watch your language on this forum.</p>
<p>You are making all sorts of incorrect assumptions. If English is not your native language, then schools **do **take that into consideration! You will be required to take the TOEFL to measure your English abilities. If your English is not good enough you will have a hard time succeeding in college here.</p>
<p>Agree with BeanTownGirl. Also, US colleges are not like many European ones where students choose a subject and then study only that subject for four years. Virtually every school in the country requires at least one writing class, as well as other courses not related to the student’s intended field of study. If you can’t read English at a high enough level, you’ll have an extremely difficult time succeeding in your non major classes. Even most science classes require high levels of reading comprehension so as to interpret scientific papers, and textbooks. I know many internationals who seriously struggled with sentence structure and reading comprehension and couldn’t understand the material presented.</p>
<p>One of the perks of the American educational system is that students are exposed a broader liberal arts core, one that forces them to go beyond their field of study. If a student can’t understand the material, then s/he gained nothing from college and probably would have been better off going to a school in his or her home country.</p>
<p>sorry for my bad language before was really mad and frustrated</p>
<p>There is a quarter given, in that there is the TOEFL. Also, you are compared with others in the international pool. If there is no one who does that well, that a lot more leeway is given, but as long as there are internationals who can do as well or better on the tests than most Americans, there is no reason to give any extras away. From what I understand, the top schools get plenty of very capable international student. It’s a matter of affording them all, and also keeping diversity in the school, which our schools like to do. </p>
<p>How much leeway do the French unis give to foreign students? They didn’t give me an inch In Germany, or my brother anything in Switzerland, I can tell you.</p>
<p>sorry if this sounds harsh, but just deal with it. english is the lingua franca of the world, and it’s a requirement to know it for many proffesions. in the real world, people aren’t going to spend extra time with you or get a translator just to cut you some slack, because you weren’t born with the same advantages. collegeboard and colleges shouldn’t either. besides, there are so many circumstances that can hinder a person’s academics. economic background comes to mind. your situation is just one of many. </p>
<p>you need to know English well if you want to succeed in American colleges, and they’re going to take applicants that they think will succeed. they’re not going to start accepting students out of pity.</p>
<p>yeah i guess you re right</p>
<p>Sent from my GT-I9300 using CC</p>
<p>… Why would you be given an advantage because English isn’t your first language? You have to know English well in order to do well in universities here since all of your teaching will be done in English. </p>
<p>Imagine that you were a US student that wanted to study in France but you didn’t speak French very well. Should a university give you an advantage because you don’t speak French very well? No. If you don’t speak French very well they shouldn’t accept you because you won’t be able to understand your professors, you won’t learn and you won’t do well.</p>
<p>“in my opinion the number 1university in france= number 100 in the us (like perdue maybe).thats why i dont want to study in france”</p>
<p>That’s because French universities are very narrow in scope. Most only offer a handful of fields of study. They are not comprehensive like US universities. But in their respective fields, top French universities are excellent. </p>
<p>That being said, I can see why you want to experience the comprehensive US university, complete with a nice, lively and cohesive campus community, modern facilities, school spirit etc…</p>
<p>Honestly, you have no excuse for getting less than a 600 on the CR and W. I known roughly 10 or so students from the French Lycees in Abu Dhabi (Louis Massignon) and Dubai (Georges Pompidou), and most of them got in the 620-650 on the CR and W sections. They all ended up at good US universities, such as Cornell, Michigan-Ann Arbor, Northwestern and Wisconsin-Madison. </p>
<p>From what I understand, the Ivy League require a minimum score of 600 on the CR and W. Anything less is automatically disqualified. However, there are plenty of excellent universities in the US that will either not require the SAT, or accept slightly lower scores on the CR and W sections in the case of international students. MIT for example does not require the SAT, only the TOEFL and the SAT II (Mathematics II and either Chemistry or Physics). Michigan-Ann Arbor will forgive a 550 or 560 on the CR, as long as you apply Early Action, your Mathematics score is greater than 750 and your average at school is over 16/20. Some of the better LACs, like Bowdoin, do not require the SAT.</p>
<p>But if you insist on the Ivy League, you had better raise your CR to over 600.</p>
<p>International96, your assumptions and conclusions are flawed.</p>
<ol>
<li>I doubt it is easy for many in France to score a perfect 800 on the SAT M, unless they work rather hard at it.</li>
<li>The SAT Verbal is not merely a test of English. While a deficient vocabulary is a handicap, your education should provide you with a bonus in terms of reasoning and logic, which are the real elements tested.</li>
<li>The Writing test is one that rewards the student who practices in earnest. The number of rules tested are not that numerous.</li>
<li>The essay is easily gamed by preparing a number of canned paragraphs. The nemesis of students is to rely on rambling and none too cogent prose (such as your post)</li>
</ol>
<p>Here is the conclusion. If you are a student with the academic background to justify an admission at a selective school in the US, the deficient English should be THAT much of a deterrent. </p>
<p>For the record, some of the essays written by people who learned English as a third or fourth language were the very best I had the chance to read. The occasional grammar lapse was easily dwarfed by a clear and concise style, or the ability to stay away from the formulaic essay taught in the US schools. If you happen to write well in French, you should be able to do well in English. If you are able to read critically in French, you should do well on the SAT Verbal. </p>
<p>As surprising at it may sound, your background offers more bonuses than handicaps. If you learn to overcome the few pesky ones. And by the way, adding punctuation to your posts is a good start. </p>
<p>Bonne chance.</p>
<p>la sorbonne is MUCH better than purdue</p>
<p>Sorbonne focuses almost exclusively in the humanities. Purdue’s main strength is Engineering. In the tech world, Purdue is a major entity, Sorbonne is not. In the world of Humanities and the Arts, Sorbonne is well regarded, Purdue is not.</p>
<p>By the way, Sorbonne is not the best university in France. There are several major universities (known as “Grande Ecole”), that are considered better. Those include Ecole Polytechnique, Ecole Normale Superieure, Universite Pierre et Marie Curie and Universite Paris-Sud are probably the top universities in France today. Between them, they have produced over 50 Nobel Laureates and a whopping number of Fields Medalists.</p>