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<p>Well, there you have it: the U of C is not interested in appealing to the lowest common denominator of 18-22 yr olds. Thankfully.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like the D is a fit for the U of C and the mother isn’t. :)</p>
<p>When you compare academic discipline strength along with faculty, and student body strength, and overal reputation, Chicago is definitely a tier above Michigan. But you are right Rjk, it would be wrong for anyone to act as though Michigan is weak academically.</p>
<p>I agree it does sound like the daughter is a good fit for Uchicago, but the mom is a bit reluctant. That is understandable though, it is a big decision!</p>
<p>They are both outstanding schools and both of my d’s had friends attend both schools, well actually more at Michigan but younger d did have a friend transfer out of Michigan Honors program to Brown because she felt the curriculum at Michigan and opportunities were very rigid and there were many requirements especially in the Honors program. She was not able to travel abroad as part of her curriculum so that is something you might want to consider.</p>
<p>Brown is known for its open cirriculum. Chicago has it’s core. It seems Chicago is more like Michigan than Brown.</p>
<p>“Well, there you have it: the U of C is not interested in appealing to the lowest common denominator of 18-22 yr olds. Thankfully.”</p>
<p>Yes, schools like Stanford like to appeal to that “lowest common denominator.” Shameful!</p>
<p>Both schools have distinguished faculty and productive research programs. For a student who already is adept at tapping into those strengths (a kid who would place out of many entry-level classes and is ready to specialize), Chicago may not be worth $30K-$40K more. For many other good students who also want a traditional American college experience, Chicago wouldn’t be worth a penny more.</p>
<p>If you fancy yourself an intellectual, someone who wants to think deep thoughts and talk serious talk about many subjects, Chicago provides a classroom and social environment to cultivate that. It gets top students from just about every state and income level. Its classes are more consistently small than Michigan’s (or nearly any other research university’s). Professors collaborate to develop the interdisciplinary Core curriculum and compile teaching materials from primary sources. They typically function as Socratic mentors who ask tough questions about difficult books to students seated with them around a table. Lectures often supplement discussion classes rather than the other way around. Although the Core curriculum and pedagogy aren’t different in every detail from what you’d find at other selective schools, it all adds up to an educational formula that Chicago has been refining for many decades. </p>
<p>Not everyone would like Chicago’s instructional style or its geeky atmosphere. Not everyone would take to the Hyde Park neighborhood. Best to spend a little time in the dorms, classrooms, and surrounding neighborhoods at both schools.</p>
<p>rjk, YOU were the one who chose to strongly imply that U of C kids were not “normal.” And yes, Stanford DOES appeal to the lowest common denominator of students more than the U of C does, because it has big time sports and California weather. (That does not mean that the lowest common denominator of student can get in, obviously. But I’m willing to bet big $$ that more of them would LIKE to.) The U of C student is a rarer bird. You said that upfront, so why argue about it?</p>
<p>Based on academics, Chicago is much better. However, if it costs much less to attend Michigan, you may want to look at Mich for that reason. Overall, I would go to Chicago unless I couldn’t afford it.</p>
<p>Though UoChicago’s Hyde Park neighborhood setting is attractive, there’s a longstanding problem with street crime (muggings) and burglaries. Problem never goes away because adjoining neighborhoods to south and west (east is Lake Michigan itself) are very rough low-income neighborhoods with serious gang, delinquency, and crime problems. (Chicago itself also has an ongoing overall crime problem right now - review some “Second City Cop” blog-posts for a better understanding if overall situation.) UoChicago students must learn to be street-savvy very quickly. It helps to remain alert, somewhat suspicious of strangers, and not embarassed to avoid (or not walk into) uncertain or intimidating situations.</p>
<p>UoChicago’s campus police is very visible throughout Hyde Park and traditionally have supplemented Chicago police coverage in the neighborhood, but not always effective in curbing actual crime. Maroon articles should help clarify picture. Around Christmas, a mother told me that there night-time break-ins in occupied dorm rooms, which was also reported in Maroon.</p>
<p>Hyde Park rents are expensive, so dorms are a good choice. If reported rents are low; then apartment is likely at outermost western boundary. Public transportation must be selected with care; Metra train or Jeffrey Express public bus ok, other public transit options not necessarily safe. Not a good school to bring a car; streets are controlled by City of Chicago parking regulations and related charges.</p>
<p>If decision concerned graduate school, I’d be whole-heartedly endorsing UoChicago, but for undergraduate school, I believe the college experience is somewhat hyped here as part of a larger marketing play.</p>
<p>“Based on academics, Chicago is much better.”</p>
<p>Nonsense. Chicago is marginally better in some disciplines.</p>
<p>“Chicago itself also has an ongoing overall crime problem right now - review some “Second City Cop” blog-posts for a better understanding if overall situation.)”</p>
<p>This is not to be lightly ignored. There are gangs harrassing tourists along North Michigan Ave. right now! That is one of the busiest areas of the city. As much as I love Chicago as a city, it is quickly becoming a dangerous place to visit. The new mayor does not have a handle on this type of criminal like Mayor Daley did. I hope the administration gets this problem in order soon, or tourism is going to suffer big time!</p>
<p><a href=“Budget Travel vs Luxury Travel – Virtual Tourist Travel & Rental Car Insurance”>Budget Travel vs Luxury Travel – Virtual Tourist Travel & Rental Car Insurance;
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Gasp! How could those kids possibly learn anything in those huddled masses?!</p>
<p><em>sarcasm</em></p>
<p>OP,
I don’t have a dog in this fight. Both will provide fantastic educations. I say let your daughter choose for the campus environment she prefers. They’re quite different - surely she should have some preference.</p>
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<p>Chicago’s “Common Core” is very interdisciplinary. In fact, Chicago doesn’t even have undergraduate departments. Undergraduate faculty are appointed to “The College”. A large part of an undergraduate’s program is taken up by Core courses. Many of these are developed by (and sometimes team-taught by) professors from more than one discipline. So, to say that Chicago’s (graduate) economics department is better than Michigan’s, or that Michigan’s philosophy department is better than Chicago’s (graduate) philosophy department, isn’t necessarily too meaningful for an undergraduate choosing between the two. An important question is whether you buy into Chicago’s Common Core concept, or the value of small discussion-based classes focused on primary source materials of interest to multiple disciplines. I don’t know, maybe you can find as much of that as you really want at Michigan (honors program) for a more affordable price.</p>
<p>tk, few universities have undergraduate departments. Michigan is much like Chicago…or the other way around since Michigan the older of the two. There is no undergraduate department at Michigan. You have undergraduate students, undergraduate degrees and undergraduate courses, but departments and faculty are shared by undergrads and graduate students alike.</p>
<p>I think it boils down to this:</p>
<p>If you want a highly intellectual environment in an urban setting, go with Chicago.</p>
<p>If you want the classic college experience go with Michigan.</p>
<p>I’ll add that Chicago’s two newspapers are suppressing stories concerning crime. The wildings occurring downtown and Michigan Avenue prime retail areas have been ongoing for several years, and Mayor Daley didn’t have “control” over situation either. CPD police are significantly understaffed at patrol level. Delinquent teens and other criminally-minded folks now realize that there’s little penalty or risk for street crime, so harrassment and muggings have increased in areas normally not associated with street crime risk.</p>
<p>Southside of Chicago has a long history of impoverished neighborhoods and street crime. Though UoC tries very hard to patrol its own immediate neighborhood, in addition to its campuses, the “ripe pickings” make the students a likely target for nefarious folks. If OP’s daughter is street-savvy, she’s likely ok - but if she’s more naive or anxious, this is a point of consideration. (I’ve been on campus many times, and personally know many alumni and parents of current students who’ve shared their own experiences.)</p>
<p>“I’ll add that Chicago’s two newspapers are suppressing stories concerning crime.”</p>
<p>That’s probably one of the areas that Daley had “control” over. ;-)</p>
<p>I wouldn’t decline a university I was otherwise interested in simply for fear of falling victim to street crime. A vigilant student will have nothing to worry about in this regard; just keep your wits about you and you will be fine.</p>
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Yes, but Chicago has smaller classes so faculty get to interact with undergraduates in a more intimate setting.</p>
<p>Chicago is not one of those universities where faculty get to interact much with undergraduate students. Classes may be smaller in some instances, but faculty at Chicago is pretty focused on research.</p>