On the Fence: UChicago vs. Michigan Honors

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello,
This is my first post. I am looking for constructive advice/opinions on my perceptions of daughters top two from parents of students, students, alumni. She has it narrowed to UChicago and Michigan LSA Honors. Out of state for both. No merit aid offered at this point.</p>

<p>About the student: Interested in genetics/biostatistics, wishes to keep med school as an option but interested in genetic counseling or research or public health. Would like a study abroad opportunity, undergraduate research experience, opportunities for health care career job shadowing/volunteering.</p>

<p>UChicago:
Okay my issue is safety. We are reading the Maroon which recently published an article written by a student who was mugged right on the quad, cell phone and computer stolen. He admits he was doing what he was not supposed to, talking on phone outside, alone, late at night. Also report that someone entered a dorm and stole a computer while student was sleeping....a dorm with such a friendly community students leave rooms doors open/unlocked. When we visit security/police are highly visible. The stock answer is you stay within campus boundries and it is safe. </p>

<p>Daughter loves the Core, intellectual philosophy, that they built a library over the football stadium, the house system. She stayed in a dorm that used to be a hotel on her over night that was quite far from the quad. She loved the other students and atmosphere. It is a hike to the dining hall/libraries classes though.</p>

<p>I am concerned that the focus at UChicago is PhD or med school and not a lot of exploring a wide variety of other paths.</p>

<p>Daughter thinks quarter system is awesome. 10 intense weeks with fewer classes, opportunity to take more classes overall.</p>

<p>I am concerned that grade deflation might be hard on her (she's used to A's and a lot of positive feedback). The overall feeling of academic stress excites her now....is that the best way to spend some of the best years of your life though?</p>

<p>Michigan
I think Michigan has a more proven track record and more name recognition than Chicago. Maybe I don't hang out with enough intellectuals.</p>

<p>Michigan Honors has great housing (not Bursley on North Campus), an honors community, and some opportunity for smaller classes, fewer GSI's.</p>

<p>No matter what she wants to explore or study, Michigan is good at it.</p>

<p>Daughter loves Ann Arbor, restaurants, shops, cafes intertwined with the campus. Zingermans Deli is awesome. The campus feels very vibrant. Kids look happy. </p>

<p>Study abroad seems very accessible and encouraged and compatible with pre-med. At Chicago she was cautioned she would have to plan very carefully to get all her premed requirements and also go abroad. </p>

<p>Her high school college counselor and teacher mentors are highly impressed with Chicago and the unique learning environment there. Michigan seems like the quintessential undergraduate experience, with Honors she can stick with the more academically focused crowd but still has options. Michigan is also about 10K less per year (at this level it doesn't seem like much but over 4 years it is a lot).</p>

<p>Thanks for reading all this....looking forward to constructive advice/observations.</p>

2

<p>If you read through your post, you can see that you are leaning towards Michigan. My D didn’t even apply to Chicago because she knew she couldn’t tolerate the quarter system, but that’s not an issue for your D. </p>

<p>Michigan is a top school. My older D was on a study abroad program that included several students from Michigan, and she was so impressed with their character and academic focus. In fact, because of that experience, my younger D applied to Michigan.</p>

<p>You also need to seriously consider the 10K a year difference.</p>

<p>My D will not be attending Michigan, but we would have been thrilled if she had.</p>

3

<p>Thanks, yes, I favor the Michigan Honors program. I am curious if anyone can tell me why Chicago is a better choice. Best of luck to your D!</p>

4

<p>I don’t think you can go wrong really, but the schools are very different. Uchicago - best of the best students across the nation and beyond, very intellectual, unfailingly smart and amazing faculty. Chicago has a unique learning environment that no other university produces.</p>

<p>Michigan-fairly strong student body-but obviously not matching the caliber of uchicago. mixed atmosphere- some students very intellectual, others much more into the social scene. good academics all around, though not as renowned as uchicago. </p>

<p>What you do get with Michigan is the more traditional full package college experience. sports, academics, partys, ect.
Chicago does have a social scene but obviously it’s not the traditional, mainstream college culture. </p>

<p>I wouldnt worry about safety too much at uchicago. As long as your D takes reasonable precautions, danger can be avoided. </p>

<p>Both great options though, just very different.</p>

5

<p>Chicago’s core ensures breadth, while their majors provide the depth. Chicago is well known for their prowess in creating new knowledge & discoveries. They cap their classes at 18 or so, which provides a more intimate learning environment. Their professors teach classes overseas, which maintains the quality of education while providing their students with exposure to other cultures. Chicago is committed to providing marketable skills in pre-professional areas (law, education, business, arts, entrepreneurship, …) in addition to training their students to think creatively & critically. </p>

<p>If Chicago’s financial admins will entertain your request for enhancing their financial aid, it may end up being one of your best investments, and may provide your D a great academic undergraduate experience. </p>

<p>This in no way berates Michigan. Michigan is a very strong school all around, but in the area of academics Chicago maintains its lead in fundamental sciences. The number of Nobel Laureates on Chicago’s campus is a testimony of their commitment to attract and retain the best in academia. </p>

<p>Your D has excellent choices. Recommend that she spend overnight at each of the campus to get a sense where she might want to go.</p>

6

<p>Chicago is known for hard work and if you can keep up, it is an amazing school.
The faculty there is incredible, one of the best the United States has to offer (more Nobel Laureates than any other school, as well as many other leaders in their fields). Going there pretty much guarantees a one of a kind education that rivals other top schools like HYPSM, But like I said, it also notoriously hard, majority of free time will be spent studying. A friend of mine recently graduated there and when I was asking him about it, he warned me that if you aren’t completely confident in your work ethic and studying abilities, then UChig might not be the best choice for you. He just accepted an offer to attend Harvard for grad school, getting his PhD for chemical physics and gives credit for his time at UChig for his great success. If your daughter has the aptitude and likes a challenge, Chicago is perfect. Also, it can get you connections like you wouldn’t believe. (I would kill to go to UChig for econ/math) </p>

<p>Regarding safety, I heard a story from my friend who actually witnessed someone get robbed 20 feet away from him, in front of a public library. Crazy stuff but campus is safe. </p>

<p>On the other hand, UMich Ann Arbor is also an amazing school. Not near UChig in terms of academic strength and fame, but offers like everyone has been saying, the traditional college experience. It isn’t nearly as stressful but still provides some of the best education you can get. </p>

<p>In the end I think daughter should go to whichever she would feel more comfortable in. It would suck going somewhere and being miserable for the sake of a great education.</p>

7

<p>Both are great schools. Your daughter will have an excellent education at either university. If her academic interests lie in the life sciences and possibly premed, I do not think either school will provide her with an edge. I would go with fit. As some posters have already mentioned, Chicago will provide a more intense academic experience while Michigan will likely provide a more of a traditional college experience.</p>

8

<p>“Not near UChig in terms of academic strength and fame.”</p>

<p>I think your point is a bit exaggerated. While I agree Chicago is an amazing school, it is not leaps and bounds stronger than Michigan in academics as you state.</p>

9

<p>I guess I did exaggerate a bit, but I still believe uchig is ahead by quite a bit</p>

10

<p>Well there’s no question that Uchicago is the stronger school.
Like others have said, Uchicago is regarded as having one of the smartest, if not smartest student body in the US, very intellectual atmosphere, amazing professors-more NobelLa’s then any other school. Very respected and renowned university.</p>

<p>Michigan is an all around strong school but can’t hold a candle to uchicago. </p>

<p>I think Uchicago would be hard to pass up if you are up for the challenge, but I would choose based on fit as these two schools are very different.</p>

<p>Uchicago-urban, intellectual life. students tend to be a little quirky but very hardworking and generally friendly.
Michigan-traditional college scene. sports/academics/parties ect</p>

11

<p>In addition to safety, you may want to consider the cost side of the equation. </p>

<p>What is the total cost of attendance for 4 years, assuming that your D will be able to schedule her classes and finish her UG in the said time period? For comparison purposes, you may plug in 4-5% cost inflation year after year for each school.</p>

<p>If your D is interested in medical school after her UG, will your family be able to self finance part of her med school expenses, and lower the debt amount? Or, if she is simply interested in a masters program, many of which are not funded, can your family self fund her masters without incurring debt? </p>

<p>Does your D currently have opportunity to study at her state flagship college in an honors program, and if so what is the difference in the total cost of attendance for 4 years? What percentage of the students from your state flagship attend medical school? Please keep in mind that med school’s main criteria for admission is overall GPA, science/math GPA and MCAT scores and medical related activities and research. (Others on this forum have better first hand experience.). It is very difficult to maintain high GPA at rigorous schools like Chicago (& at Michigan). Pre Meds do hog up the higher end of GPA scaling. Your concern about grade deflation is quite valid. </p>

<p>You may want to consider the return on investment in her undergraduate education at both Michigan, Chicago and any other state school, versus the amount of debt your family may incur. </p>

<p>[Economics</a> 101: Maximizing Your College Investment - BusinessWeek](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>

12

<p>“Michigan is an all around strong school but can’t hold a candle to uchicago.”</p>

<p>More hyperbolic nonsense. There is no question that Chicago is an outstanding institution, but it’s not HYPSM. Even those schools aren’t leaps and bounds better than Michigan.</p>

13

<p>“Michigan is an all around strong school but can’t hold a candle to uchicago.”</p>

<p>“Not near UChig in terms of academic strength and fame”</p>

<p>I will start by saying that Chicago is one of the very few universities I consider better than Michigan on a “pound-for-pound” basis. I stress pound-for-pound because Michigan offers a great deal more than Chicago overall, such as a stellar college of Engineering, a strong undergraduate Business program and top programs in Architecture, Music Performance, Nursing etc…Regardless, Chicago, along with HYPSM, as well as Cal, Caltech and Columbia, is truly amazing. Michigan is, admittedly, a notch below.</p>

<p>However, I must say that I am really surprised to read comments on this thread suggesting that Chicago is far superior to Michigan. It is not. I would argue that Chicago is not even $40k better than Michigan, which is the difference in the cost of attendance between the two schools as far as the OP is concerned. Certainly the academic reputation of Chicago and Michigan within academe are similar. I have yet to see an academic rating of the two universities that strongly favors Chicago over Michigan.</p>

<p>While some may claim that the difference in the quality of undergraduate students at Chicago is significantly higher than that at Michigan (a point that is vastly exaggerated), it does not apply to students enrolled in the Honors college. Honors students at Michigan have similar academic credentials to students at the University of Chicago. Those students live together in the same dorm and take their classes together. If one seeks a very strong student body, the honors college at Michigan holds its own nicely.</p>

<p>The primary difference between the two universities is their campus cultures, not their academic excellence. Many have already touched on it; Chicago has a serious and intense academic vibe while Michigan has a goofier, more collegiate college atmosphere. Some prefer the quirkier, more austere atmosphere at Chicago, while others prefer the bouncier, more spirited atmosphere at Michigan. One thing is clear, if Chicago truly is so superior to Michigan, it does not translate into better placement at top Medical School, where Michigan graduates seem to be as well represented as Chicago graduates.</p>

14

<p>At the end of the day you should always choose based on fit. Chicago may be a stronger school overal (how much stronger is up for debate), but ultimately that shouldn’t be what your daughter bases her decision off of. She should go where she thinks she would fit better and be her best. </p>

<p>I think if she visited both schools she would find out pretty quickly which environment appealed to her more. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

15

<p>Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies!</p>

16

<p>To clarify Alexandre’s comments; Michigan has an honors program and not an honors college. Those students still take most of their classes with the general population of undergraduates.</p>

17

<p>1) “Daughter loves the Core, intellectual philosophy, that they built a library over the football stadium, the house system”</p>

<p>It’s hard to imagine someone at Michigan who would like the idea of getting rid of football for a library. It’s the opposite at Michigan.</p>

<p>2) “I am concerned that the focus at UChicago is PhD or med school and not a lot of exploring a wide variety of other paths.”</p>

<p>There are a large number of economic majors who want to work upon graduation at Chicago.</p>

<p>3) “Michigan is also about 10K less per year (at this level it doesn’t seem like much but over 4 years it is a lot).”</p>

<p>Is OP aware that Michigan’s tuition increases $1,400 after freshman year? At Chicago 50-55% of students live off campus in Hyde Park, which saves several thousand per year from on campus housing/dining. Total marginal cost is NOT $40K. It’s more like $30K.</p>

<p>4) “She stayed in a dorm that used to be a hotel on her over night that was quite far from the quad. She loved the other students and atmosphere. It is a hike to the dining hall/libraries classes though.”</p>

<p>That was probably the Broadview, which was for grad students in my day. All the other dorms are much closer to campus.</p>

<p>5) "Study abroad seems very accessible and encouraged and compatible with pre-med. At Chicago she was cautioned she would have to plan very carefully to get all her premed requirements and also go abroad. "</p>

<p>Chicago runs their own study abroad programs. Many involve doing the civilization part of the Core in Europe together with foreign language study. There are also subject specific programs like the Paris primates program, for those interested in anthropology or biology.</p>

<p>6) “Michigan seems like the quintessential undergraduate experience”</p>

<p>To whom? Daughter or D’s Mom?</p>

<p>There are size differences of the two: Michigan 27,000 undergrads + 17,000 grads vs. Chicago 5,500 undergrads + 7,500 grads (+ 2000 off-campus GSB). Class sizes at Michigan are huge compared to Chicago. You get what you pay for. Only at Michigan, you get what Michigan residents pay for, but at a much higher price.</p>

18

<p>“It’s hard to imagine someone at Michigan who would like the idea of getting rid of football for a library. It’s the opposite at Michigan.”</p>

<p>Michigan didn’t have to. There was plenty of room to hold its top ten library collection.</p>

<p>“Michigan seems like the quintessential undergraduate experience”</p>

<p>It is for most normal 18-22 year olds. </p>

<p>“Is OP aware that Michigan’s tuition increases $1,400 after freshman year? At Chicago 50-55% of students live off campus in Hyde Park, which saves several thousand per year from on campus housing/dining. Total marginal cost is NOT $40K. It’s more like $30K.”</p>

<p>Tuition being cheaper by about 37,000 dollars over the course of four years for an OOS student is still signficant and worth noting. Not to mention that most Michigan students live off campus after their freshman year in a highly desirable town that you can actually walk around in without typically worrying about being a victim of violent crime. The total margin cost is probably greater attending U of C than for Michigan since Chicago is a more expensive city to live in.</p>

19

<p>The bottom line: </p>

<p>Chicago is a better school, more prestigious, and more intellectual.
Michigan is a more traditional atmosphere, more well rounded experience.</p>

<p>It honestly surprises me that someone is conflicted in trying to choose between these two. They’re so very different - it seems like you would know which environment is more for you. </p>

<p>Go for fit.</p>

20

<p>Bottom line is Chicago will easily cost 40K more over the course of four years. Chicago is marginally better in some, but not all comparable disciplines. Some act here as if Michigan weren’t strong academically at all.</p>