UChicago vs. WUSTL vs. UMich Honors

<p>Hello everyone,
I have been accepted to these three schools which were my top three choices and now I have no idea what to do.
I am a fairly quirky/nerdy girl who loves Doctor Who, Harry Potter, reading etc,
I plan to study Biology undergrad with a focus on Genetics. Currently, I want to become a Genetics Counselor or do Genetic research. My plan is to do the Pre-Med reqs undergrad just in case I change my mind about med school. I also really want to continue studying French.
Here are my thoughts on the schools:</p>

<p>UCHICAGO
I really love the campus and the intellectual spirit of this school. I did an overnight and I really loved the people and the atmosphere. Everyone was there to learn, but they still had fun talking about books, movies, tv shows etc. It is the school that feels the most like me. I know it is extremely difficult, but I think I would learn how to think differently and I would grow so much as a person here.
However, is the difficulty of academics worth what I would learn? Is the campus that safe? </p>

<p>WUSTL
As I want to do bio, I know this is a great school to prepare me for a career. I also got accepted to the Summer Scholars Program where I participate in biological research for 7 weeks during the summer. I have visited once, but the campus seemed kind of empty and I am not sure I got a very good feel about the atmosphere.
What is this school really like? Is the Summer Scholars Program really that great? Is it really that much better in the sciences than UC or UM?</p>

<p>UMICH LSA Honors
This is where both of my parents went to school. I have gone to a football game almost every year of my life. I love Ann Arbor; I love that the school is actually in town. It is a gorgeous campus and the school is extremely well known.
However, the classes are large and less personal than UC and WUSTL. Does Honors make up for that? Would it be easy to participate in research? </p>

<p>Please give me your thoughts on these schools. I would love to hear some arguments for each school from people other than me and my parents.
Thanks</p>

<p>Never been to the WUSTL been only heard great things. One of my goods friends had to decide between the WUSTL, Case Western, and UChicago. Ironically he hated UChicago after he visited and then visited the WUSTL and is planning on going there next year. One of my cousins also loves the WUSTL. Other cousin loves UMich but can’t afford it, also an honors program there is great. All great schools (also great prices ;)) so I think you would be happy at any of them. Good Luck, you have a good problem is having to decide where you get to spend your next 4 years.</p>

<p>Three great choices. Is there a significant cost difference after aid (if any)?</p>

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<p>No. All three schools have excellent science programs. WUSTL has particular strength in the life sciences. It may be somewhat stronger than Chicago or Michigan in some subfields (like genetics). However, if graduate program rankings mean anything, then across the sciences more generally (physics, chemistry, biology, earth sciences and mathematics), Chicago and Michigan appear to be more consistently near the top than WUSTL.</p>

<p>Chicago alumni have the second highest rate of earned PhDs in the life sciences of any research university (after Caltech). In the years 2006-2010, Chicago alumni earned about 40% more doctorates in the biological sciences than WUSTL alumni, despite Chicago’s smaller size. (Source: <a href=“https://webcaspar.nsf.gov/[/url]”>https://webcaspar.nsf.gov/&lt;/a&gt;). It may be that relatively more bio majors at WUSTL choose to go on to medical school. </p>

<p>Chicago has significantly smaller average class sizes than the other two. WUSTL’s percentage of large classes (50 or more students) is more than 2x Chicago’s. </p>

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<p>That says a lot. However, I think you ought to revisit WUSTL for an overnight when school is in session. Also, if you are a Michigan resident and aid does not bring the costs in line, you should think hard about taking on a lot of debt to attend Chicago or WUSTL when you have such a good public option (esp. if you might attend med school $$$).</p>

<p>First off, congrats! All great schools. Of the three, UChicago is probably best regarded and it certainly sounds like you’d fit into the intellectual atmosphere there. However, I have acquaintances who have attended UChicago and report that it is every bit as stressful and work intensive as it’s made out to be. So, while it appears to be the least “fun” college experience of the three, there’s no doubt you’ll get a great education, be around a lot of smart people, and have good options awaiting you after college.</p>

<p>I’m fairly familiar with WashU since I applied there and I’ve visited before. I didn’t get a bad sense at all-- it seems like a really friendly and nurturing place to me. I get the sense it will be a lot less intellectual than UChicago, but it has really top of the line facilities (from labs and classrooms to its dorms which are some of the top rated in the country) and a good reputation in several branches of science. I wouldn’t choose WashU based on its rankings (I doubt it’s program will be most highly esteemed of the three), but WashU is growing to be better regarded and better known nationally with each passing year.</p>

<p>I don’t actually know that much about UMichigan, but my sister was accepted into the Honors college and from what I can tell it seems like a really cool opportunity. I’m pretty sure that honors kids not only take smaller classes and get priority on classes with limited space, but they live together (in what I’m told is the best dorm). I’m not personally a fan of big schools, but I think that being in the honors program in this case COMPLETELY makes up for that, giving you a place in a smaller, intellectual community and the ability to take smaller classes. Meanwhile, you still have access to all the resources of a large research university (I bet being an honors student would open doors to research opportunities btw), and you’d would be in one of the best college towns ever. </p>

<p>You have a tough decision ahead. Good luck!</p>

<p>All three great choices and no wrong answers. In my opinion, your collegiate experience would be most complete in Ann Arbor. Academically, socially, and athletically; Michigan has it all.</p>

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What if the OP doesn’t like athletics? Why do you presume that Michigan has a social advantage over WUSTL or UChicago?</p>

<p>Chicago’s probably the best in terms of fit, but don’t knock the personal connection you have with Michigan. Some people send their kids and grandkids to the same schools to establish a nice tradition.</p>

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Think she likes sports?</p>

<p>“Why do you presume that Michigan has a social advantage over WUSTL or UChicago?”</p>

<p>I never said it did goldenboy. I just stated, once again obviously, that Michigan offered all three areas to the OP.</p>

<p>But the OP also said she is “quirky”. Chicago may be a better fit, although Michigan certainly wouldn’t be too much of a stretch in this department. WUSTL is obviously excellent in the Life Sciences, but so are Chicago and Michigan. You cannot go wrong with those three schools. I would recommend going to the most affordable option. If that is not a concern, go with fit. </p>

<p>I would also not worry too much about class size. They are often exaggerated on CC. Classes may be slightly larger at Michigan in some instances, but it should not be be a nagging problem.</p>

<p>UChicago being “quirky” seems to be more of a myth now. Over the past few years, I’ve conducted dozens and dozens of interviews with applicants, and they are far, far more mainstream. I’d imagine the “quirky” subsection at UChicago is about the same as it is at any other college (with variations, of course - UChicago, Yale, and Brown may get more “quirky” types than Duke or Georgetown).</p>

<p>Thank you everyone. You all brought up some great points and I still have a little thinking to do. To answer some questions, I’m not a Mi resident, but UM does cost about $15,000 less than the other two schools so it is still quite a bit of money.
In addition, haha no, I’m actually not that big of a sports fan. I wouldn’t miss them all that much if I went to UC or WUSTL, but I would go to a couple if I went to UM.
Thanks again!</p>

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<p>School …< 20 … 20-49 … 50 or more students per class
Chicago … 75.1% … 20% … 4.9%<br>
WUSTL … 67.9% … 21.9% … 10.2%
Michigan … 48% … 35.2% … 16.8%
(Source: US News)</p>

<p>Here is a UofC Biology course schedule, showing total enrollment & enrollment limits, for Fall 2012:
[University</a> of Chicago Time Schedules](<a href=“http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/view.php?dept=BIOS&term=452]University”>University of Chicago Time Schedules)
The Core (usually 1st/2nd year) Biology courses combine lectures (~43-48 students) with labs (~24 students).</p>

<p>Core Humanities courses (such as “Greek Thought & Lit”, “Human Being & Citizen”) appear to keep enrollments under 20 ([University</a> of Chicago Time Schedules](<a href=“http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/view.php?dept=HUMA&term=452]University”>University of Chicago Time Schedules)). Ditto for Core Social Science courses such as “Self, Culture & Society” ([University</a> of Chicago Time Schedules](<a href=“http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/view.php?dept=SOSC&term=452]University”>University of Chicago Time Schedules)).</p>

<p>If class size is important to you, see if you can get corresponding numbers for Michigan/honors.</p>

<p>I could not find Michigan course schedules showing student enrollments.
However, I found them for UC Berkeley. Overall, Berkeley has smaller class sizes than Michigan (64.2% < 20, 21.6% 20-49, 14.2% 50 or more at Berkeley).</p>

<p>Berkeley’s lower division, General Biology lectures in Fall 2012 had enrollments as high as 853 students (~20X the lecture enrollment sizes at Chicago). Lab sections had limits of 28 (almost as small as Chicago’s). Lower division History classes typically have limits of 20 students (similar to Chicago). The many lower division “Literature in English” classes typically have limits of 20-something or 30-something, with actual enrollments ranging from 18 to 100 (not as consistently small as Chicago’s Core Humanities courses, and often much larger). Lower division Principles of Psychology classes have enrollments > 150 students (compared to Chicago’s “Fundamentals of Psychology” with a 50 student lecture limit and 25 student discussion limit).
[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?y=11&p_term=FL&p_deptname=Biology&p_classif=L&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&x=55]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?y=11&p_term=FL&p_deptname=Biology&p_classif=L&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&x=55)</p>