On the First Amendment - Indiana (IU) Kelley

@doschicos

In other words, brainwashing.

@jagrren

How can an assertion be made that a student is a bigot if he/she chooses to take his class? Sounds extreme.

It should be noted that these news articles, as is common these days, twist words to intentionally make people look bad. For example, the USA Today piece that was linked earlier quote the prof for using the term housewife, with “housewife” is quotes, as though it is somehow demeaning to use such a term. This is in addition to cherry-picking quotes without expanding on the prof’s reasoning for the statements.

If anything in this situation is appalling, it is the provost’s behavior. The line in her statement where she says “ as vile and stupid as they are” when referring to the cherry-picked prof’s statements was completely unnecessary to make her point. But the most oppressive regimes in history would be proud of her attempt at thought control.

As a practical matter, many students land in particular sections with particular instructors because they were last in the course registration lottery and had to take whatever space was left, whether or not they thought that the instructors were desirable ones.

For the First Amendment to mean anything, all political points of view must be protected as free speech. Period. If we start to pick and choose then depending on which people are doing the picking and choosing, anyone could be prevented from expressing his/her politics. (in fact, my last use of his/her could be banned as being too gender binary). Think about it.

“Women do not belong in the workplace.”

“That gay men should not be permitted in academia either, because he believes they are promiscuous and unable to avoid abusing students.”

“Black students are generally unqualified for attendance at elite institutions, and are generally inferior academically to white students.”

These are NOT political views.

The First Amendment protects speech, with a few exceptions for obscenity, inciting a riot, etc. Social views are not exceptions.

Do you really want government controlling what you can or cannot say?

Exactly. There are not actually two civil sides to every question. And even so-called political opinions can be self-evidently wrong without being accused of “brainwashing” – I’m sure no one here thinks, for instance, Holocaust Denial, defense of slavery, or other extreme views would be acceptable. So the questions isn’t “both sides always should be considered”, but “at what point is a POV not worth considering?” And I think most people would agree that the extreme views I listed, and the actual quotes from his own words, are all views that civil society does not need to debate. That’s not brainwashing; that’s plain old decency.

I think way too many people don’t really understand the breadth of the First Amendment. Don’t under that it protects hate speech, don’t understand that it doesnt only protect you from arrest. Any consequences by government actors are covered.

It’s limits are few:

  1. Words that incite IMMEDIATE violence or mayhem AND are untrue: Shouting “fire” in a theater, “Hey mob go after that guy he just drowned a puppy”

  2. Saying negative and untrue FACTS about a SPECIFIC person that causes them harm. “Mr Jones is a predator” ( vs his reprehensible comments about gay people in general )

  3. Harassment. Must be directed toward a specific person or group of people. … not something said in general…requires either being said to them directly or the specific intent that they hear it. The exception is seldom found…usually only with repeated activity over a long period of time.

  4. Threats of violence.

  5. Technically pornography but in today’s world this exception has been obliterated for all practical purposes.

I don’t think I see anyone here asking for a First Amendment violation.

I find this issue pretty interesting! I know nothing about tenure at a University, but I’m guessing that’s really what it comes down to…that he hasn’t committed something that his contract states is a fireable offense.

I must have had this guy in my time at IU as a Bus. Econ major. I don’t remember any of my IU bus professors making any anti women/LGTBQ/racial minority statements, FWIW, but times were different then (early 90s)…meaning my personal radar wasn’t as finely tuned.

Of course I don’t like the idea of a guy with these views teaching anyone, but if he’s within his contract, I wonder what IU can do besides what they are doing…condemning his statements and taking actions to protect students (if there is anything to protect from…I would think/hope if these viewpoints of his are making it into class, there WOULD be a fireable offense). It kind of sounds as if IU is trying to set it up so that they can fire him in the future.

They are political views, even though they may be self evidently vile.

However, acting on them (e.g. in evaluating potential or current employees or students) can be illegal discrimination (although not necessarily easy to detect and enforce against if done covertly).

But also note that there are likely many others with similar views who do not openly call attention to the fact that they hold such views. Such people may be “under the radar” in terms of covertly practicing illegal discrimination without being detected. IU may be doing things to prevent Rasmusen from practicing illegal discrimination in grading students, but that does not make it more difficult for some other faculty member with similar (but not publicized) views from covertly practicing illegal discrimination in grading students.

Most of what he post in his Twitter account makes it obvious that he holds some views many, if not most, people would find despicable but he stays just this side of getting himself in serious trouble. To wit:

*note from Sue22-the IAT is a way of looking at unconscious biases, ala, “people of this race are all…”

About a certain person in the political spotlight:

The quotes in posts 23 and 29 are the words of the provost, not the professor. They are clear misrepresentations of what he said, likely to generate some hate and negative feedback from the student body in order to fire him, as @TS0104 suggested.

Direct quotes from Eric Rasmussen:

Tenured or not, it is much easier to fire a professor at a private university than a public university like Indiana, since only public universities are obligated to follow the 1st Amendment. Rasmusen may well have been kicked to the curb were he at one of Indiana’s private peers.

For example, a couple of years ago Oberlin fired an assistant professor for anti-Semitic posts, and Wheaton (IL) jettisoned a professor for saying that Christians and Muslims worship the same god.

People who take issue with educational institutions controlling what people can and cannot say are free to avoid sending their children to private colleges.

Interesting side note. In California private non-religious based universities must adhere to the first Amendment for students though not professors. And “ student” includes those who have applied. So no rejecting an applicant or revoking an admitted student based on them saying racist or other things. In other words if your kid wants to do the kind of stupid stuff those Harvard admitted students got their admittance revoked for, have them apply to Stanford instead. (Or hopefully they are never that stupid)

The U.S. Supreme Court severely reduced the level of free-speech protection for public employees across the country when they issued a little more than a decade ago in Garcetti v. Ceballos (2006). The decision, a “Dred Scott” decision for public employees, erected a categorical rule that public employees receive no free-speech protection for any official, job-duty speech – no matter how important to the public.

Garcetti changed settled law. For decades, the Supreme Court used a two-part test, known as the Pickering test or the Pickering-Connick test, to evaluate public employee free-speech cases. First, a court asked whether a public employee spoke more on a matter of public importance (called “public concern”) or was the speech more properly characterized as a private grievance. If the employee spoke on a matter of public concern, the court then balanced the employee’s right to free speech against the employer’s countervailing interests in workplace efficiency. This test provided stability to the law and allowed public employees a fighting chance in many cases.

Then, the Garcetti ruling added an additional barrier that has proved too imposing for many public employees. Many attorneys refer to the phenomenon of being “Garcettized.” The decision has chilled speech on the part of would-be whistleblowers and other employees who wish to speak out against corruption or wrongdoing.

UNSETTLED QUESTION – DOES IT APPLY TO ACADEMIC FREEDOM

A key question is whether the Garcetti decision should apply when public college and university professors teach, write, research, and otherwise engage in academic freedom. A professor’s job is to teach, write, and research. All of this could potentially fall under Garcetti’s long arm of “official job duty speech.”

In his dissent in Garcetti, Justice David Souter opined that Garcetti could cause damage to the speech rights of public university professors, writing: “I have to hope that today’s majority does not mean to imperil First Amendment protection of academic freedom in public colleges and universities, whose teachers necessarily speak and write ‘pursuant to . . . official duties.’”[1] In response, Justice Anthony Kennedy – the author of the majority opinion in Garcetti – avoided deciding the question: “We need not, and for that reason do not, decide whether the analysis we conduct today would apply in the same manner to a case involving speech related to scholarship or teaching.”[2]

Professor Sheldon Nahmod warned in a 2008 article in the First Amendment Law Review, “Academic Freedom and the Post-Garcetti Blues”: “If Garcetti is taken seriously and read broadly, then all such speech and scholarship, inherently made pursuant to official employment duties, is unprotected by the First Amendment from discipline imposed by elementary, secondary, and higher level educational officials.”[3]

Garcetti threatens the speech of college and university employees. The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in Demers v. Austin that Garcetti does not apply to the academic work of professors. The appeals court explained:

We conclude that Garcetti does not—indeed, consistent with the First Amendment, cannot—apply to teaching and academic writing that are performed “pursuant to the official duties” of a teacher and professor. We hold that academic employee speech not covered by Garcetti is protected under the First Amendment, using the analysis established in Pickering.

The Fourth Circuit reached a similar result in Adams v. Trustees of the University of North Carolina-Wilmingon. “Applying Garcetti to the academic work of a public university faculty member under the facts of this case could place beyond the reach of First Amendment protection many forms of public speech or service a professor engaged in during his employment,” the 4th Circuit wrote. As I explained in a previous commentary, this decision, like the Demers decision, protects academic freedom.

Hopefully, the U.S. Supreme Court will clarify that Garcetti does not apply to scholarship, teaching, and similar exercises of academic freedom.

But, @FlaParent , the professor’s words in question are from a personal Twitter account that in no way associates him with Indiana University. In addition, many of the questionable words are from retweets, not even his own. Do any of the legalities you mention apply to him?

@OhiBro My guess is that with the current makeup of the SCOTUS a Ginsburg majority would find this professor absolutely protected. I don’t believe that Garcetti applies to speech in private forums. It involves speech made while carrying out official duties. Thus I don’t think you even get into an academic freedom exception.

As usual, taking a news report as truth is a bad idea considering the amount of media bias. I always try to look at the source documents rather than reports, and not a few lines taken out of context. Is part of an ongoing purge of conservative academics at IU?

It seems to me that if no one signs up for the prof’s classes, he will lose his job anyway. But this continual outrage is really counterproductive.

Seems like a forum favorite university has its own freedom of speech controversy:
https://cw.ua.edu/54140/top-stories/breaking-dean-of-students-allegedly-resigns-after-pictures-of-past-tweets-surface/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/us/university-of-alabama-racism.html