Valid opinions and protected speech. Shame on UA.
I guess that this is more evidence of how conservatives suffer discrimination in academia, eh, @OhiBro?
Free speech is under attack from both the Left and Right. The number of intelligent people on this board who I’ve seen post clearly wrong things about First Amendment protections is staggering to me. People who claim that the First Amendment doesn’t protect from consequences other than criminal punishment. People who claim that a public university’s Code of Conduct can trump the First Amendment etc… I find it very frightening how few people really know their Constitutional rights and how many seem willing to destroy any rights when the speech is something they vigorously disagree with.
Thanks for the links @ucbalumnus
Different universities, different states, and different administrations.
One institution contorts itself to protect and retain an employee who regularly and currently makes public comments that are bigoted. Another university immediately fires an employee who, years ago, made a few comments about how institutional racism has harmed blacks in America. The difference in how these two situations were handled is startlingly disturbing to me.
Yes, different institutions, but it seems like the drum keeps on beating. And this is why some parents find it important to keep a list of schools that fail one very important test for being suitable for their children.
Indeed. This one was never on either kid’s list.
Wait, what? How did I get dragged into this? LOL
I am a VERY tolerant person, and can mix with people of any type. I would not have fired Dr. Riley from UofAL.
However, since this thread is comparing the statements of these two academics, the statement by Dr. Riley is FAR more offensive than anything I am aware of the IU guy saying. Specifically, and I think this was the final straw, is Dr. Riley’s statement that “white people…have 0 opinion!” That’s it. You’re gone.
Horrible professors saying stupid things=odious, but free speech.
Colleges and Universities that disinvite or refuse to allow those with different ( even odious ) view to speak=breaking the first Amendment.
I would send my kid to any school where they are people with opinions I don’t agree with. I would NOT send my kid to schools which restrict free speech in any way, shape or form. ( And there are many so this might not be possible).
The culture of shutting down opinions one does not agree with is frankly dangerous. And most definitely weakens the 1st amendment.
Every university has crazy professors saying outlandish and offensive things.
IMO “white people…have 0 opinion” is true…since he said it in the context of experiencing racism in America.
I have no experience of what it is like to be anything but white. I have secondhand stories from people of other races, I can observe things, so I do have some opinion, but a tweet like that doesn’t bother me.
I fail to see what is offensive about telling somebody who has no experience of a situation that their opinion of how it is to experience that situation is irrelevant. Do you think that the opinion of a wealthy person (who has been wealthy throughout their life) about what it is like to be poor has any real validity? Do you think that a the opinion of a healthy person about what it is like to be disabled has any validity?
That is yet another aspect of privilege - the belief that your opinion ALWAYS matters, and the visceral, furious response when somebody who does not have your privilege DARES tell you that your opinion doesn’t matter.
When a White person tweets that Black people are overall inferior, your response is that “it’s free speech”. When a Black person tweets that the opinions of White people, in one limited area, are not important, your response is “That’s it. You’re gone.”.
You should really check whether you are actually as tolerant as you claim.
I would think that a conduct clause we be incorporated in his employment agreement making it fairly easy to fire him
Where I am employed, there is a policy about that – and if my firm can in any way be connected to me (like they know its me and they know where I work) then I can be fired.
@MWolf
Your contrived scenarios have little relevance here, and as much as I would like to engage, it would get shut down.
This thread is about first amendment rights. A guy at IU fully supports free expression, and a guy at UofAL does not.
As I said before, I would not have fired the UofAL guy, but it is certainly reasonable for the leaders of a state university to act in the best interests of the state, which may differ from state to state.
I did check my tolerance, and not surprisingly also found extraordinary pragmatism and reasonability.
The last time I looked in the mirror, I saw the most handsome man in the world.
That wasn’t a mirror, it was the front window to my house.
Jamie Riley wasn’t immediately fired. He resigned. There’s a difference. In exchange for his voluntary resignation, he received the princely sum of $346,200.
“I would think that a conduct clause we be incorporated in his employment agreement making it fairly easy to fire him”
A conduct clause in an employment contract of a public university cannot override the First Amendment.
@maya54 Well said. People often do not understand the Constitution. What is worse, they pretend to understand it and write things that are not in the document that support their claims usually regarding the 1st Amendment. The first understanding of the 1st amendment includes free speech is protected. If someone says something you don’t like, you have no recourse. ( with very very few exceptions like yelling “Fire” in a theater). Once people understand that hateful speech is protected they would stop going down the path of preventing others from their 1st amendment rights. You might not like it, but there is someone who would dislike and take offense at basically anything one could ever say. Think about that before you try to squelch someone else’s opinions.
And many people today think they can prevent the 1st amendment in their area of jurisdiction ( place of employment, university, etc). There will likely be many 1st Amendment cases going through the courts soon as there are lots of free speech issues today.
Perhaps more cynically, they selectively support freedom of speech only when they really support what is being said but do not want to admit it.
Human nature! Of COURSE this is what’s going on, we see it in all of these threads., and in the world generally.
I love the ACLU when it stands up for speech I think important. Not a fan of the neo-Nazi defenses. But I do recognize that org is being consistent.
QFT!