<p>To be honest undergrad matters even after a grad degree. People still know I went to Dartmouth at my firm and in 75% of my interviews people talked about my undergrad experience. I am still completely in that social network and it is much stronger than my grad one in terms of alumni contacts. Not to mention the fact that I would say 85% of my grad program (columbia MBA) was full of top 15 school grads. Even in medicine, law etc the top is full of iy undergrads.</p>
<p>To be honest undergrad matters even after a grad degree. People still know I went to Dartmouth at my firm and in 75% of my interviews people talked about my undergrad experience. I am still completely in that social network and it is much stronger than my grad one in terms of alumni contacts. Not to mention the fact that I would say 85% of my grad program (columbia MBA) was full of ivy grads. Even in medicine, law etc the top is full of ivy undergrads. My friend just got into Harvard MBA and he has the list of undergrad schools. I'll post it sometime.</p>
<p>Alexander recently posted where kids at the top law and business schools did undergrad. It was shockingly in favor of the very top schools. Things like 30 from Harvard, 3 from UCLA (which has 10X the number of undergrads). No question an ivy or top LAC is the way to go for law or biz. Med schools just seem to havwe schools they favor, so looking at each individual school's placement rate is the way to go.</p>
<p>if what comes before doesn't matter would all those parents be spending thosands of dollars and writing essays for their kids to get into preschool?
education builds on itself. I am not arguing for brand names but rather quality of education</p>
<p>"I am not arguing for brand names but rather quality of education."</p>
<p>Amen. And not just for the financial rewards and superficial glory that might or might not come with quality education.</p>
<p>And I will even take it further and say * what you do* during your undergrad years can make more of a difference than* where you go*.</p>
<p>I posted on another thread about some close aquaintances who have been very , very successful in that they are making a difference, doing what they love, and having a huge impact on society and they all attended a lower ranked public school.Not one that would be first on your mind after reading their curriculum vitae</p>
<p>There is some positive correlation, though, between quality of education and "brand names," taken with the right number of grains of salt.</p>
<p>suze, what're the undergraduate population sizes of Harvard and UCLA? Doesn't UCLA have only 5x as many undergrads?</p>
<p>It just SEEMS like 100,000 at UCLA.</p>
<p>when i said undergrad doesn't matter if you go to grad school, i was referring to job prospects. I'm not talking about what cbs news says when you decide to blow up a building or commit a triple murder.</p>
<p>If you walk up to morgan melhuish or sullivan & cromwell with a law degree from virginia/nyu/harvard they're not going to care if you went to harvard undergrad or caldwell college.</p>
<p>however, if you don't plan on going to grad school, you should try to get a degree from the best school you can get - as its a lot harder to get a great starting job from montclair state than it is from cornell.</p>
<p>Question: Why does Sullivan & Cromwell not ask you about your undergraduate degree from W. Nowhere State College? </p>
<p>Answer: Because you never got to interview with them, unless you are a Harvard LS magna.</p>
<p>Also, you don't "walk up to ...sullivan & cromwell". You might have the opportunity to show an interest, but they approach you.</p>
<p>mmm don't believe that</p>
<p>just looked at their website - while these arn't all horrible schoosl, they arn't what most here consider prestigious.</p>
<p>some undergrad places of lawyers in sullivan and cromwell. GWU, University of colorado, university of richmond, florida state university, cedar crest college, touro college, suny stony brook, villanova, BU, Hobart college, suny plattsburgh, providence, Torah Temimah Talmudic Seminary, Fordham, Bernard M. Baruch college, Ramapo college, suny albany, and manhattan college.</p>
<p>i just went to their website and found all those in 10 minutes. some of these schools belong to associates, but some of them belong to partners. And these arn't "old school" people who are 80 years old, a lot of them graduated in the 90s.</p>
<p>and yes, i would agree that most of the people at these high powered firms and such went to great undergrads - but i think thats just a product of smart people going to really good undergrad schools - and smart people go to really good grad schools. But if you're really smart and you go to joe blow U, you have the same opportunities available to you if you go to a good grad school.</p>
<p>I might be out of date, but when I applied to such firms for summer and associate positions the discussion often turned to my (prestgious) undergraduate school and record, with favorable results. But, I would have never got the interview (or call-back) without the top student / top law school credentials.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But if you're really smart and you go to joe blow U, you have the same opportunities available to you if you go to a good grad school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But if you're really smart and go to an elite undergrad AND elite grad school then who's the stronger candidate between this candidate vs. the above candidate?</p>
<p>Of course anyone can very well succeed without going to an elite undergrad - BUT if you have a chance to go to an elite undergrad - GO! </p>
<p>People want to know "is it really important?", "how important is it really?" - what do you want, a numerical number? Do you need a list of specific, tangible advantages? Nothing is guaranteed in life (if you haven't figured that out by now). People who have graduated from Harvard have failed. People who have gone to community college have succeeded. There are no absolutes. A Harvard degree isn't a free ticket to anything but a great education and the opening of many potential doors. It's up to the individual to find their own way and make the most of those opportunities (and there's the other point - many more doors will be open to you as a graduate of an elite U.)</p>
<p>People will tell you things like "ah, undergrad doesn't matter as long as you go to a good grad school", yeah, but it can't hurt could it? And aren't your chances at enrolling into a good grad school higher is you graduate from a better undergrad anyway?</p>
<p>And what people forget to mention when they say "just go to a good grad school, that's all that matters." Why do people just assume that if you go to Joe Blow undergrad that you are gonna just write your own grad ticket and waltz into Yale Law School, Wharton Business School or Harvard Medical School? Don't even delude yourself. The odds are against you. And if you don't make it and you are just stuck with Joe Blow undergrad, how smart was forgoing that chance to go to the elite undergrad now? At a very minimum, you'll have that in your pocket. A bird in the hand...</p>
<p>Bottom line is: you don't even need formal schooling to succeed in life - many successful people have done it. So why bother going at all? Because the odds are way against you. It's a bit of an extreme example, of course, but it makes the point.</p>
<p>I find that some of the advice / views on this site doesn't really square with reality. </p>
<p>Attend the best possible school you can. Life is full of enough risk and uncertainty to leave everything to chance IMO.</p>
<p>I generally agree with you Ivy_grad, but I think there are some cases when a person should not go to the "best" (which seems to mean highest regarded) possible school they can. If you think that you'll feel very uncomfortable or unhappy there, for instance, why not go to a slightly lower ranked or lower regarded school where you will feel happier and likely perform better because of it? I think there are other factors to consider, from personal fit to money to having what you want to study (special programs) and more, but I do agree with many of your points.</p>
<p>"Once and for All. Does Undergrad REALLY matter? "</p>
<p>Yes, but not as much as people think.</p>
<p>DRab, you actually agree with me? Is it April Fools day or something? LOL. just kidding.</p>
<p>Yeah, there will be certain circumstances where it may not make sense (money issues being the immediate thing that comes to mind) - but if you CAN you SHOULD.</p>
<p>c'mon ivy_grad, am i usually that disagreeable to/towards you?</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Drab, it's all good!</p>
<p>Here's my thought. I agree with mostly with what Ivy_Grad said about always going to the best possible school you can attend. However, there is one notable exception to this rule. </p>
<p>You have to be honest ask yourself if you have what it takes to graduate in the top 25-50%. For some students, they might know they don't have the capability to do so. For most students however, its because they have other priorities that result in them not working to their full potential. That's not a bad thing. However, if you are honest with yourself about this, you can attend a lesser school(perhaps state school) and not set yourself for dissapointment. </p>
<p>After all, who really wants to apply to med/grad school with a 3.0 from an ivy league school, when he/she could have achieved a 3.8 from a state school.</p>