<p>Um.. Ivies have grade inflation. The avg is like a 3.3-3.5. I'd take that Ivy 3.5 over even a 4.0 from a state school.</p>
<p>Who's to say that the assurance is there? Some state schools lack the grade inflation, some kids might be more distracted with fewer more-seriious students, for instance.</p>
<p>That's true DRab.</p>
<p><em>sigh</em> - You people don't get what im trying to say. I understand I'm not out in the working world. Maybe I've completely missed something. But this is how I see it.</p>
<p>Yes, a higher % of students from elite undergrad schools go to elite graduate schools. Why is that? There are just more smart kids at Princeton than say a school like Providence. On a whole, more people at Princeton probably apply to grad schools and more people at Princeton probably have better GPA's (ivy grade inflation). On whole, scores on the lsats and mcats and whatever other tests you have to take are probably better at a school like princeton than x state university. But, SURPRISE there are smart kids at every college. I bet if you take 1 student from cornell with a 3.7 gpa and a 170 on the lsats, and a kid from suny (insert city here) with a 3.7 gpa and a 170 on his lsats, they would have very similar acceptances at law schools. the only difference is is that the person at cornell spent a ton more money for that undergrad degree.</p>
<p>Make no mistakes about it, if you don't plan on going to grad school, where you go to undergrad matters. But the truth of the matter is - if you decide to go to grad school - and you get into a good one - the college you attended for undergrad becomes merely a subject to talk about.</p>
<p>Not true. Over here, they reject 3.8's from state schools and accept 3.5's from Ivies with everything else being equal.</p>
<p>Explain that?</p>
<p>Also, many of you are centric on a very few list of schools. I mention elite grad schools because thats what this conversation has leaned to, but honestly, there are a million lawyers out there, and there are 100 firms on that top 100 firm list. Tons of lawyers are self employed, or are part of small 2, 3, or 4 person firms. And for people who aspire to go to medical school ... it doesn't matter at all where you go to med school. Let me ask you something, how many of you know where your family doctor went to medical school? When was the last time you heard that X medical school put out crappy doctors or X medical school was crappy period. </p>
<p>You don't have to go to the no. 1 law, medical, or ph.d. program to be successful. Most successful people didn't - remember that.</p>
<p>over where?</p>
<p>and show me source. from my understandings - at least for law school, its extremely formulaic. a gpa + lsat composite.</p>
<p>"Tons of lawyers are self employed, or are part of small 2, 3, or 4 person firms. And for people who aspire to go to medical school ... "</p>
<p>Yea I'm sure those lawyers make a looot of money /sarcasm</p>
<p>Please stop exaggerating. No one is saying you have to be the best (OMG #1 HAHVUD!!). No one is saying that you can't succeed if you go to a state school.</p>
<p>We are just saying it's better to go to the best u-grad possible because with equal GPA, the better u-grad wins.</p>
<p>Jags, I file papers here at Carnegie Mellon. Why would I lie to you? I'm going here for basically free.</p>
<p>Not to mention, ugrad also matters because if you keep a 3.0 here at ECE, they allow you to get a masters in JUST ONE year. We also have similar programs like a masters in Economics in 5 years.</p>
<p>Any adcom can tell you an Ivy 3.5 > tier 3 state school 3.5.</p>
<p>PS: I don't know for law school since we don't have one.</p>
<p>lol - you'd be surprised how much you can make in a small firm.</p>
<p>both my parents are self employed and they do all right. and like i said - i don't think thats the case with the better u-grad for grad school admissions when you take equally qualified students.</p>
<p>yes - tons of schools offer 5 year master programs...its nothing unique to carnegie</p>
<p>You missed my point. If you went to a state school, do you think you can be guaranteed a masters in ECE from a top ranked school in 5 years? </p>
<p>Second point you haven't addressed. Do you believe 3.5 Ivy = 3.5 tier 3 state?</p>
<p>
[quote]
But the truth of the matter is - if you decide to go to grad school - and you get into a good one - the college you attended for undergrad becomes merely a subject to talk about.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Totally disagree. Couldn't disagree more.</p>
<p>You are completely discounting the other intangible (and arguably more valuable) benefits of attending an elite undergrad program.</p>
<p>In a word: networking.</p>
<p>One clear and immediate benefit is the ability to tap into a powerful, influential and lifelong alumni network. </p>
<p>Not to mention the fact that your fellow classmates (perhaps one of your close friends) during your college days will be an important resource that you can (and should) leverage in the future. It's not a stretch to say that your fellow graduates from, say, Princeton will be in higher places (be it in medicine, law or business, etc.) than your fellow graduates from Joe Blow Community program.</p>
<p>I continue to meet fellow alums (of both grad and undergrad) on nearly a daily basis (via emails, people trying to get in touch with so and so, people looking to get advice - i.e. people using and leveraging the network). And I am more than happy to help - because at some point in time in the future, I may need their help and they will remember me.</p>
<p>Anyone who works for a living knows the powerful advantage a reference or having a referral is. I'd argue (having been on the hiring side of the office desk) that when you meet someone who has been referred to you that you respect - the screening process is almost done.</p>
<p>Of course it always comes down to the particular individual. A person who goes to XYZ college will only get out of it what he/she puts into it.</p>
<p>That said, don't think for a moment that the place where you attend university ends with the diploma.</p>
<p>They call the graduation ceremony "commencement" (from the Latin inceptio meaning "beginning") for a reason.</p>
<p>If you went to a state school with a top ranked ece program - yes i definately think you could.</p>
<p>Also, I will agree on the fact that if you take a grad school where the 25-75 gpa is say 3.5-3.8 (i know thats too high for practically any grad program, but just for this example) then a person from the teir 3/4 state school with a 3.5 will have a worse chance than a person from a top top school with a 3.5. but if the 25-75 is say 3.2-3.5 then yes i say its just as good in terms of getting into that school.</p>
<p>Yes, I'm sure a tier 3 state school will have top graduate schools /sarcasm.</p>
<p>We aren't talking UVA/Cal/Umich here. </p>
<p>Six Florida State grads applied last year. I don't remember their GPAs but they were not bad at all. Know how many got in?</p>
<p>Zero. </p>
<p>Know how many Stanford kids got in? </p>
<p>A whole lot.</p>
<p>I understand your point about networking ivygrad, however, someone who goes to a top top grad school has plenty of networking just from the people who he went to grad school with. </p>
<p>But somehow I imagine, that down the road, if you need help in your area, or a reference, or whatever - the people who you went to grad school with are more likely to help you out than the people you went to undergrad with. If you're a lawyer for example, how many people were you friends with in college became lawyers? Probably not that many. How many people in law school went on to become lawyers? I'd venture to say quite a few. I bet the references given by people in the same area as you hold more weight than the reference of "a buddy who i roomed with 2nd year at yale who now works at meryll lynch" - especially when you're applying to a law firm or something.</p>
<p>Yes - aca - I don't know exactly what is involved in engineering. GPA's I'm sure arn't everything. But who knows? could the kids from florida state have had near the bottem of the 25-75 split and thats why they were rejected? Maybe the kids from stanford had some ridiculous research under their belt. Maybe the kids from florida had all right gpas - but there were enough applicants with higher gpas than them. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that if a student is on the cusp, that going to teir 3 state school is going to give them a little something extra that someone from stanford might have. I don't know what the average gpa/25-75 split for grad engineering students at carnegie is. If its say 3.1-3.4 - and the florida state kids all had 3.1's and 3.2's - i can see them not getting in vs kids from stanford with 3.1's and 3.2's. But I have a hard time believe all the kids form florida stat ehad 3.6's and got rejected and the kids from stanford had 3.0's and all got in. </p>
<p>Of course - I could be completely wrong - i'm just speculating</p>
<p>I know what you are getting to.</p>
<p>My problem is this: "But the truth of the matter is - if you decide to go to grad school - and you get into a good one - the college you attended for undergrad becomes merely a subject to talk about. "</p>
<p>Undergrad matters, just not as much if you go to grad (but it still matters!).</p>
<p>You also talked about research. At top schools, good research interns and opportunities are more open to students. I was offered a research opp and I'm a business major!!! They openly email us about all kinds of interns/jobs with some pretty good companies (Google/Microsoft).</p>
<p>
[quote]
at cornell, many of the PhD students who get their PhDs went to no-name undergrads such as Univ of Wash, Univ of FLA, Indiana Univ, UCSD
[/quote]
</p>
<p>... did you seriously just call those schools no-name?</p>
<p>aca - i'll definately agree that top schools have better research opportunities. no doubt about that. Thats why I said people who are on the cusp have a better chance coming from a top school. If you are on the low side of the GPA scale - and you have a sweet internship/program that you did, it most definately will help you.</p>
<p>And yes, I shouldn't have said undergrad doesn't matter at all when you go to grad school. I guess my point was that it is significantly less important once you graduate from grad school. I'm just trying to dispell the notion that the name of your undergrad school is the be all and end all of post-collegiate life.</p>
<p>Daderoo - unless you have something to add - chill out - he didn't get what i was saying which is why i clarified myself.</p>