<p>lookingforward - You’ve grabbed an excerpt from a Yale report, and assumed it’s the same incident as the one reported in the Huffington Post. There is, as far as I can tell, absolutely no basis for that assumption.</p>
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<p>Actually, if you just assume the student is a disgusting rapist then, of course the discussion would be about how much punishment he would get. But of course that’s not how our justice system works: assuming someone as guilty is not the same is showing them to be guilty. And having enough reason to consider whether the guy is guilty is not the same as proving he is guilty.</p>
<p>I remember reading the whole Title IX complaint and all of the various incidences it reported. Of them all - sexual assault and harassment, maybe 30 - 40 incidents - only 5 went to the Yale police and they all involved staff on staff assault. Only ONE went to the New Haven police and it involved a male student who was sexually assaulted off campus by a male non-student. </p>
<p>It was the only case where there was a male victim.</p>
<p>In all the cases of sexual assault (male student on female student) there was sufficient evidence found supporting the victims’ statements and yet the worst punishment (only handed out once) was for a one semester suspension. The vast majority of time the perp only got a written reprimand.</p>
<p>A big part of the problem seems to be the timing of everything with this case. While I agree the effective punishment seems like a slap in the face, Yale may in fact be following a reasonable set of guidelines. This was an attempted assault, and a 1-semester suspension, on the surface, seems a reasonable punishment. The only real problem is the timing:</p>
<p>Attempted assault happens in December, victim waits until February to report. Investigation takes a few months, and the resulting punishment is handed down in May, just before finals. If the suspension had been handed down near the beginning of the semester, few would take issue with a suspension for the remainder of the semester, nor would they complain about allowing 72 hours to vacate. Maybe Yale should have waited a couple of weeks before handing out the punishment, but then what would happen? Since this student registered for summer classes, would the suspension be served over the summer term (and seem to the victim like there was no suspension), or would it be delayed until the fall term?</p>
<p>Also, on the surface it seems like a 1-day suspension, but if it happened before finals, was this student able to complete the term? Or did he lose credit for all of his spring semester classes? If he lost credit, then it is in fact a punishment (again, might not feel like one to his victim, but maybe he lost everything he paid for that semester, and needs the summer classes to catch back up. And if he receives any financial aid, he has used up a semester of that aid.</p>
<p>So for me, whether this was a reasonable punishment, hinges not on the timing, which was awful, but on what the suspension really entails.</p>
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<p>Good grief. Did you even bother to read the report? It says:</p>
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<p>So if the report is true (and I see no reason to believe that it is not–if it is, that’s a different story), there was an investigation and the student was found responsible.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom, if that’s Yale’s Clery report, then which is the one in question? I don’t know. But the one I “grabbed” seems the closest. </p>
<p>Why is there nothing reporting this particular woman’s story as in the Huffington report- except for the Huffington Post and those who copied it, essentially verbatim? </p>
<p>Nothing in the local or college newspapers, eg. The only mention of her is her protest of the college policies, with other college women, in which she makes the “slap on the wrist” remark, in a different context.</p>
<p>I see one on the first page, ending in, “The complainant filed a formal complaint with the UWC. The UWC did not find sufficient evidence to support the allegations.” and then the one on the second page, “sufficient evidence to support the allegations. The respondent was given a one-semester suspension, was placed on probation for the remainder of his time at the University, and was restricted from contacting the complainant.”</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong- I am utterly confused at what seems to be, over several years of public awareness, some real hesitation, at Yale. But, I am very curious about this particular report and the attention-</p>
<p>If a person calls the actual police in February to report an attempted sexual assault that occurred in December, it is highly unlikely that it would result in a successful prosecution, or even an arrest–especially if there were no other witnesses to the relevant events. The police might investigate it, depending on the circumstances. But the university casts a wider net in terms of behavior it will punish vs. the criminal law, and it’s not surprising that some of that behavior may net relatively minor punishments. Without knowing what, exactly, was the harassment, intimidation, and attempted assault, it’s hard to know what the appropriate punishment may have been. The fact that the victim wanted harsher punishment is a fact point, but it’s not enough. It’s problematic, of course, that we can’t get enough information to make an informed judgment without violating the privacy of the victim.</p>
<p>It seems to me that university guidelines seemed to indicate that a term’s suspension was in order, but that an administrator decided that one day of a term (to finish it out) was sufficient. It may be that the university policy was okay, but the administrator could (or should) be faulted.</p>
<p>I agree that if the adjudicators believed that suspension for a full term was the appropriate punishment, this person did not receive that punishment. We don’t actually know what they thought, though, and we don’t know what the implications were for the punishment he received–as others noted, he may have lost all the credits for the semester that was about to end. It may be that those adjudicating the offense felt that what he actually got was appropriate.</p>
<p>Title IX refers to the complainant’s right to access education and, as I recall, continued fears may be seen as a block. None of this should be minimized. If you’re interested and didn’t see it, here’s the procedure: [UWC</a> Procedures | Office of the Provost](<a href=“http://provost.yale.edu/uwc/procedures]UWC”>http://provost.yale.edu/uwc/procedures)</p>
<p>I don’t know who’s female here, but, while comments, etc, are sometimes easy to ignore or somehow handle, when it continues or it’s becomes physical intimidation, it can be frightening. We don’t know if he simply approached her, leered, towered over her or made moves to touch her, without contact. It isn’t good, it shouldn’t be happening.</p>
<p>We also don’t know, as someone said, what the suspension means to his academics. He may have lost full credit. If he did attend summer classes, we also don’t know if there was some clearance, first, that she would not be on campus.</p>
<p>I hate the vagueness as much as others. Colleges can operate as fiefdoms. Any concerned parent should seek out the guidelines for their kids’ campuses, as we said on other threads.</p>
<p>Here’s the wording re: suspension: “Separation from the University for a stated period of time. A suspended student forfeits all privileges of enrollment, including residence, attendance at classes, participation in organized extracurricular activities, and use of University libraries as well as of athletic and other facilities. Suspension may require petition for readmission. A suspended student may not return to campus during the period of suspension for any reason unless he or she receives express written permission in advance from his or her residential college dean or the dean of Student Affairs. Students on suspension during the spring and the subsequent fall term are not eligible to participate in the Yale Summer Session or any Yale-sponsored activities or programs over the summer.”</p>
<p>I wish we weren’t relying just on Huff.
<a href=“http://yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/URegs%2013-14_81413%20-%20FINAL%20COPY.pdf[/url]”>http://yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/URegs%2013-14_81413%20-%20FINAL%20COPY.pdf</a></p>
<p>The way I read that (#32), since the student was not suspended for next fall (apparently), he is eligible to take summer classes and participate in summer programs. The student may return to campus during the period of suspension with express written permission from the dean of the residential college, or the Dean of Student Affairs–to take exams, perhaps. Also, quite a few Yale courses at the advanced level have final papers, but no scheduled final exams.</p>
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Alternatively, it’s more difficult to prove that the sex was not consensual, since there is very little about the objective, undisputed facts that indicates lack of consent. Therefore, you end up with these “compromise verdicts,” wherein you’re not sure if the guy is guilty, and you’re not sure if she deserves to watch the perp walk away scot-free, so you halfway punish him.</p>
<p>I think we are likely missing the forest for the trees. Williams tossed out six rapists a year ago, and found (according to the college president) that 44 women (and three men) had been raped in the previous year on campus (none by “townies”). Not “sexually assaulted” or “sexually harassed” or subject to “sexual misconduct” - raped. There may have been more suspensions. (There were more rapes than that; this is just the number of people who had been raped.) It goes beyond my imagination to believe that there are not double that number on a campus the size of Yale, with a demographically similar student body. (Or Princeton, or…you name your school - this isn’t about Yale particularly.)</p>
<p>Something is amiss, and it doesn’t have anything to do with false accusations.</p>
<p>mini, was that addressed to me?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, you conflate “lack of proof beyond a reasonable doubt” with “false accusations”, which is entirely incorrect. If I can’t prove that someone stole my watch, it doesn’t mean that my watch wasn’t stolen or that I’m lying about who did it; it could merely mean that the crime wasn’t proven to the requisite standard of proof.</p>
<p>Incidentally, you are also conflating “tossed out six rapists…” with “judicial system correctly identified those people are guilty of the crime of rape”.</p>
<p>I will also remind you that some jurisdictions use “sexual assault” in the place of “rape” as a crime, i.e. the crime is not called “rape”. Just a little FYI.</p>
<p>Mini, if you didn’t see if, at the bottom of the provost’s report, harassment and assault are defined, for Yale’s purposes, at least.</p>
<p>It happens. I have no doubts. I had an interesting conversation with D1 at the time of the last big thread about this. She had no doubts. I have more thoughts, but, as with many issues, you can identify, confirm and punish. Or, you can dig deeper into causes, what allows acceptance (individuals, not admins) and try to change this at the root.</p>
<p>“I will also remind you that some jurisdictions use “sexual assault” in the place of “rape” as a crime, i.e. the crime is not called “rape”. Just a little FYI.”</p>
<p>I will remind you that rape is defined very, very clearly in Massachusetts law as distinct from sexual assault, and the data at Williams was gathered on the basis of the exact wording in the Massachusetts law. <a href=“http://dean.williams.edu/?page_id=2071[/url]”>http://dean.williams.edu/?page_id=2071</a></p>
<p>As to proof beyond a reasonable doubt, no college or university administration has to do so. I suspect in the case of Williams, they expelled them, put the reason of expulsion (rape) on their records, and told them if they don’t like it, they could go sue. (I’m sure Williams - like Yale - has very good lawyers. And insurance.)</p>
<p>mini, what year are you referring to at Williams? The 2011-2012 academic year does not seem to match the numbers you cite: [College</a> addresses sexual assault cases ? The Williams Record](<a href=“http://williamsrecord.com/2013/02/27/college-addresses-sexual-assault-cases/]College”>http://williamsrecord.com/2013/02/27/college-addresses-sexual-assault-cases/)</p>
<p>*Quote:
Are some schools less concerned about this sort of thing because casual sex has become commonplace and therefore (in their minds) nonconsensual sex is not much worse than “stealing a kiss”? What the heck?</p>
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Alternatively, it’s more difficult to prove that the sex was not consensual, since there is very little about the objective, undisputed facts that indicates lack of consent. Therefore, you end up with these “compromise verdicts,” wherein you’re not sure if the guy is guilty, and you’re not sure if she deserves to watch the perp walk away scot-free, so you halfway punish him.
*</p>
<p>I’m just starting to wonder if non-stranger rape w/o bodily injury threats is starting to lose its consideration as being a huge deal?</p>