<p>Sometimes you have to learn the basics before you can participate in a lively discussion of theory and what ifs. Lecture classes are very good at delivering the basics efficiently. If you spend the hour on some semi-interesting tangential discussion you miss getting the basics out of the way.</p>
<p>I agree that his advice seems sound. His three things to look for are mine as well: location, intelligence of the students, and tenor of the atmosphere, such as artsy, intellectual, etc. This thread is looking for the tenor of schools, with some success, but other threads also have similar discussions. </p>
<p>We are looking for a school with 750+verbal-SAT kids, in or near a real city or a city unto itself (as in a big state school or Cornell), and 2/3 intellectual and 1/3 artsy if we are talking about private schools. Must have some grade inflation, so my daughter doesn't try to be a grind, which she is not. Swarthmore is out. If Wesleyan weren't so hard to get into, that would be a possibility. I guess this is an impossible dream, but the icing on the cake would be to find teachers who keep their politics to themselves and let the kids express themselves honestly.</p>
<p>How about Carleton?</p>
<p>Isn't it really isolated? And cold a lot of the year, so going anywhere is unpleasant?</p>
<p>I did mention it to her, but no luck for the reasons above. We are going to visit it anyway, though, at my insistence. </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Vassar, Brown, Tufts, Oberlin, Kenyon, Grinnell, Smith</p>
<p>SBMom, I think Xmere's S will have an extremely difficult time getting into Smith. But you're right, it does fit much of his profile. (Sidenote: grade inflation seems to be minimal. I'm told that Smith average GPA is a 3.3.)</p>
<p>Haha, TheDad... Yeah, not to be harsh, but without some serious surgery he doesn't stand much of a chance :) I second Brown. I'd also check out Earlham.</p>
<p>Thanks, folks. My daughter is absolutely set against women's schools, so Vassar and Smith are out. I didn't know that Smith requires straight As to get in, though. She has an A minus average currently, and was in the 99th % of the PSAT cohort this year. Hasn't taken new SAT yet.</p>
<p>Oberlin, Grinnell and Kenyon are out--too isolated, not to mention politically intolerant/closed minded, like Swarthmore etc. Earlham falls in this category, although apparently the President of Earlham actually expelled a student for assaulting a speaker, which is a sign of courage and independence at this point. </p>
<p>That leaves Brown and Tufts, which are great as "lottery" schools, but that leaves nothing as a reasonable middle ground. Has anyone said anything on this thread about Tufts? It would be helpful to get a student's perspective on it.</p>
<p>Xmere, Swarthmore is anything but politically intolerant and close-minded!</p>
<p>Sorry, Xmere... I thought you were talking about a son instead of a daughter! I wasn't commenting on your D's admissability :) Although she's dead set against women's schools, she might give Barnard a look. It's intellectual with arts thrown in, in one of the greatest cities in the world, and is really more like a coed school academically: guys in lots of classes, etc. Vassar isn't all girls anymore, and sounds like it could be a good match. Skidmore might be another safe bet.</p>
<p>Xmere what exactly did you mean when you wrote
[quote]
Oberlin, Grinnell and Kenyon are out--too isolated, not to mention politically intolerant/closed minded, like Swarthmore etc.
[/quote]
??</p>
<p>achat, you misread her post. </p>
<p>The ", like Swarthmore, etc." is part of a list, and one of Xmere's initial criteria was "Must have some grade inflation, so my daughter doesn't try to be a grind, which she is not. Swarthmore is out." Hence, being "like Swarthmore" is one of many reasons Oberlin, Grinnell, and Kenyon would not be good matches for Xmere's daughter (according to her).</p>
<p>Xmere, </p>
<p>Vassar is coed. Take another look at it; it is very close to your D's wish list. I also second Skidmore & Barnard.</p>
<p>BTW, Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon are all politically very similar to Wesleyan & Vassar. Of the three Kenyon is probably most "preppy," but still quite open minded! </p>
<p>It is really hard to find urban safeties, because so many kids seem to want urban areas. ("Boonies" locations = precisely why these three excellent schools are just a tick easier to get in.) For a match that in most ways mimics the things you love about your reaches, you generally HAVE to accept that a few key aspects will be different. </p>
<p>So pick your poison: do you want a less rigorous academic level, a less desired location, a less national/international student body, less name recognition, worse weather, or what? Because schools that are very, very close to a "Brown," (New England well known artsy liberal verbal, ie Wes, Vassar, Tufts) will also be very nearly as selective!</p>
<p>BUT-- toss in "midwestern boonies location" and you will get a little selectivity breathing room... without sacraficing other important things like academic excellence, type of student body, fit, feel, etc. </p>
<p>For a safety, the "compromises" will be even bigger. But if you figure out your "non negotiables" versus "negotiables," your safety list will be those schools where, despite the compromises, you still get the essence of what you really want. </p>
<p>For some kids, an arty/liberal/verbal women's college like Smith may be a much, much better "fit" than a more conservative/greek but coed, urban school like Villanova. For other kids, they'd rather compromise on campus culture to retain urban location. Other kids will give up "small LAC" but retain liberal/academic/urban environment: NYU, U Mich, Wisconsin/Madison.</p>
<p>Investigate Macalester-- yes it is cold, but it is located in a great city and is definitely liberal/artsy/verbal. A degree less selective due to location, but excellent. Beloit, Lawrence, & Allegheny are also good safety material. My D liked these and she has a similar profile to yours. Of the three, Lawrence is in the biggest "city." (ha) </p>
<p>Goucher, Bard, Sarah Lawrence, Bennington are all "artsy/high verbal" at an easier level of selectivity. SL & G qualify as "city" schools. More conventional studenty body, but still in the zone: Trinity? Union? Syracuse?</p>
<p>I think your D is a great candidate for ED. If she thinks she can find nirvana at a school that is not a <em>major</em> lottery school and she demonstrates her genuine interest, writes a great app, and applies ED she could have a great shot. There is also an ED2 option at many of the schools that have been mentioned. </p>
<p>I had a similar D whose stats were lower but who had athletics as a counter-balancing bonus. She liked all these same schools that due to sheer # of applicants have low odds, but she was "in the zone" for any of them.</p>
<p>I suggest you try to identify a couple EA or rolling schools to hopefully sew up an admission in the fall. Then go for ED/ ED2 on top two choices. (You may be all done by January.) If ED or ED2 don't pan out, I would say 4-5 decent match/reach schools in RD, plus match/safeties if still needed, would be enough to get the odds swinging in your D's favor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I didn't know that Smith requires straight As to get in, though
[/quote]
Smith doesn't require A's - my friend with a solidly B+ average is attending next fall, but her essays and application supplements were insane - she's an incredibly talented writer and artist. (Also worth noting is that she attends a very grade-deflated private school, so perhaps the admissions committee took that into account?)</p>
<p>Whups, LL, I led you astray, misreading one of Xmere's antecedents, "his" referring to Nemko's standards, not Xmere's non-existent son. Apologies for misleading you...I gotta read a little slower.</p>
<p>Xmere, out of curiosity, why is your D dead set against womens colleges? Virtually every Smith student I know eventually says something along the lines of "I never meant to attend a women's college...." But in the search process they found something they didn't find anywhere else.</p>
<p>Gracilisae, I get the sense that while Smith is looking for high-performing academic students, I think they're a little more flexible than some schools in terms of how they evaluate that, taking some "diamonds in the rough" that they think are legitimate diamonds. And from what I've seen/heard, even the most socially inclined Smithies seem to be no slouches academically.</p>
<p>I certainly have caused some confusion, grammatically speaking. It's a good thing I don't have to take the SATs. All I meant was that huge work-load schools are a bad idea, and that small schools that are dominated by politically extreme groups are a bad idea -- for my daughter.</p>
<p>We saw Swarthmore, which is incredibly beautiful, because it was among the first to start sending polite letters to my daughter asking her to apply. It was immediately clear that she would certainly not qualify, since they almost always take the top one or two students in a school by grade point average. They send the letters out based on PSAT scores, as does Chicago and Yale. By the time those came, we had wised up.</p>
<p>I have taken notes on all your suggestions. Out of sheer curiosity, Lady lazarus, are you really just 15? You seem remarkably knowledgeable, and yes, Barnard does sound like a good idea, as does Smith (thank you The Dad). SBMom, I am printing out your advice. I had never heard of ED2 before. I think it is unlikely that my daughter will end up at a LAC outside of an urban area, but one never knows.</p>
<p>My best friend from high school went to Smith, and I loved it when I visited her. She hated it, because she was quite shy and couldn't deal with mixers. Do they still call them that?</p>
<p>Anyone have a description of North Carolina School of the Arts, or Webster University???</p>
<p>Well, I'm a year ahead and young for my old grade as it was, but yes, I'm a 15- year old junior :)</p>
<p>ladylazarus -- I'm glad I'm not the only 15-year-old lurking around the parents' forum. I'm a sophomore (rising junior) though. :)</p>
<p>North Carolina School for the Arts is developing quite a reputation for its film school. </p>
<p>If you want to see an incredible movie, see "All the Real Girls", written and directed by NCSA 1998 graduate, David Gordon Green. Very powerful and real film about small town, teenage love...maybe the most realistic portrayal I've seen in a film and a welcome respite from Hollywood teen movies.</p>
<p>He and his best friend wrote it while in college and then released it to critical acclaim in 2003. It was filmed in North Carolina. Definitely a 5-star film, IMO.</p>
<p>It was Green's second film. The first was "George Washington", which also received considerable critical acclaim.</p>