One of the best business schools in PA?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Lehigh University
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<p>Hey'd anyone else see the new stats on PSU. Came out today. Now over 90,000 students enrolled at the campuses, with over 42K at UP.</p>

<p>btw, toneyranger, I'm positive I'm inferior to a great many people, but I keep trying. ;) but on the $$ thing, you're off base. had a wonderful scholarship, job there, etc. actually made $$ for which I'm most grateful. Again, though, none of that calls me over the blue and white cliff with our fellow lemmings to proclaim what a grand academic experience it was. it was what it is. no more no less. but the PSU model for education is imo so inferior to so many other options simply because it is statistically impossible for virtually all to have any type of highly engaging intellectual experience ... UNLESS ... as you've noted, one goes and gets it. in which case, one can get the very same experience for the most part, at Lock Haven, Stony Brook, Maine at Farmington, etc. Learning is not limited to what one is fed if one is willing and motivated to go and get what they want. Is this reality for most 18 and20 year olds? I think we all know that answer. there are 2 primary determinants in why Penn State enrolls 90K students today vs. the 4 or 5 K of the 50s... NOT because it's a superior way to educate individuals, but rather because it's a cost effective way to educate the masses, and like the PSU news release noted today, the U needs $$ to pursue its mission of research (meaning virtually anything BUT supporting undergraduate education.</p>

<p>If one seeks a Ph.D. in ceramic science, meteorology, or ag engineering, super! None bettern PSU. but imo, trying to build a case that a PSU undergraduate education ... for most, nearly all ... comes close to the kind of academic experience a student can have at a Davidson, Reed, College of NJ, Webb Institute, Connecticut College, Wm & Mary ... aside from personal, emotional, and on many fronts pleasant testimony which is anecdotal ... is improbable. Do I doubt that Joe Undergrad had a more "collegiate" good time with the football games, hoops, and a sense of "THIS is college" in walking around the Nit Lion on a sunny Saturday vs. looking across the bay to Manhattan from the campus of Stevens Tech? Nah, I don't doubt that at all ... been there done both. No comparison.</p>

<p>But ... do I doubt that collectively Stevens Techers got a superior one on one BS in nanotechnology or EE. Nope. Careful scrutiny would reveal the hard truth that is simply too difficult for many PSUers (and many many other mega institutional grads) to swallow. It ain't gonna happen. Most will not be willing or able to afford that possibility. </p>

<p>But were it to happen, it would be no call to shame or disgrace. Again, it simply is what it is. And that's plenty wonderful for a whole lot of people, and that's the very good news, because economics tells us with certainty that the proportion of all college students going to the Penn States will be even greater in 2020 than it is in 2008. Just like in 2008 it's hugely greater than it was in 1975. </p>

<p>One note: We've shown for many years now that we ARE willing to pay for automobiles that last, houses that are in the right location, location, location, and jeans that shout the right label. Increasingly, with the exception of the intellectual and financial elite of our nation, we've said with our feet and checkbooks ... there IS NOT ENOUGh evidence that Lehigh at 150K pricing is sufficiently worth that and thus the PSUs become the default mode. And what I think most are saying, it's not a bad default mode for lots of reasons. My contention is that FOR MOST that reason cannot be because they received a superior academic experience.</p>

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<p>Who said superior?
Is a small class always a better class?
Are all Lehigh classes small?
From what I saw, Lehigh is not immune to the problems you speak of. Increasingly, it's publish or die for the profs.
And I haven't seen any surveys that rave about the quality of teachers at Lehigh.
So, let's give Lehigh the edge - not a huge leap- for academics. And let's give PSU the edge for social environment. Throw in cost and you have lots of kids deciding on PSU. Call it default if you want - but that's more like what I had. No money - OK you go to SUNY. Here I think kids with money might make the choice of PSU. Just my opinion.<br>
And yeah, no comparison to a place like Davidson - different animal all
together.</p>

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<p>How's Davidson so diff from Lehigh?</p>

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<p>So which is better for a NJ resident like myself</p>

<p>Rutgers - 20,000 a year</p>

<p>Penn state - 32,000 a year</p>

<p>Lehigh - 45,000 a year</p>

<p>Is Penn state THAT much better than Rutgers that it's worth the extra 12,000 a year?</p>

<p>I'm talking about the business schools ONLY</p>

<p>thanks for ur opinion</p>

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<p>Good question. It's not an issue of "better" imo. Essentially, at least from a purely analytical, unemotive, perspective the principal reason one would choose State College over Rutgers might be stuff like ... location, location, location. Or "reputation." While Rutgers is on the rise, the Red Knights are sorely lagging the Nits when it comes to distribution of sweatshirts along the East Coast and beyond. Or perhaps it's the current rumor that Coach Schiano is in line for JoePa's throne? Who knows, but there's little "logic" to suggest that any NJite should choose PSU over RU. My contention that picking either over Lehigh is a totally different argument that's been well hashed here.</p>

<p>btw ... I've posted a most interesting piece, imo, about diversity. Interestingly, the author touches on the issue of cost relative to diversity recruitment among Pat League schools, and notably has a specific reference to PSU vs. Lehigh. And while many readers here may not be persons of color, green remains a critcal issue in all of this, as he and I concur. It is THE issue that drives the big picture. Not the nature of brewskis served on College Ave in HV vs. the local bistro in Bethlehem. Or how many are in my intro accounting class or where the prof (or TA) got her academic sheepskin and how many refereed journal articles she's gotten printed in the past 3 seasons.</p>

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<p>"Which is better for a NJ resident like myself?"</p>

<p>Only you and your unique family circumstances can answer that. </p>

<p>We're too in NJ. My nephew's parents (my bro and SIL) pay full freight...that oos surcharge ain't small potatoes for them. They're not rich. But they make it work. From a parents' POV that's the question...what can you handle, or what do you care to handle, financially?</p>

<p>My opinion...Rutgers is a special case. Basically it's a good school. But people never seem to love it there. Maybe like a SUNY. But they go. The incentive? Purely financial. You rarely hear "I'm going to Rutgers for their ____ department". Well perhaps pharmacy, possibly engineering, maybe a couple others. Otoh spirit seems to have gotten a lift with the fb team's recent successes.</p>

<p>My nephew has had a blast at PSU. imo that's what the $12000 surcharge is all about. It helps that it's ranked well as has been explored here. But imo most of us NJ people go to PSU for that "experience"...the football, the uncongested pretty area and campus, the happiness that seems to be contagious, the alumni network and shared common generally positive experience that is Penn State. For my N it's surely been worth it.</p>

<p>Is Lehigh worth the extra big bucks? Again, no answer. If it can work for your family financially, yes. If not, no. The actual material you're taught won't be much different at any of the 3 schools. But there's so much more to it than that.</p>

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<p>Davidson? Lehigh? No comparison IMO.
Davidson is a small liberal arts college. A gem from what I know (relative has a very happy d there). Great place for a history, philosophy, religion, or arts major. Learning for learnings sake. Professors are highly rated by the students...not encumbered by research. Check out this C-dirt ratings on Davidson professors - off the charts good. I would be hugely surprised to find someone who was torn between PSU and Davidson. Or Davidson and Lehigh for that matter...
Lehigh is largely a pre-professional school. What - maybe 2/3 engineering and business students? Most kids go there to get prepared for a job after graduation. It's also a research institution so the "publish or perish" rule comes into play - I heard it from the horses mouth. Medium sized I say. Yeah, some big lecture halls too.<br>
Yeah, I know Lehigh has a liberal arts school. Not on too many radar screens though. Most know it as an engineering school. Prior to the Mountain Hawks, I believe you guys were called the "engineers" - LOL. It's your heritage.
BTW, I don't think PSU has the best liberal arts program either. Tends to be stronger in pre- professional areas...just like Lehigh.<br>
That's not the issue here though - it's the business school at PSU vs the business school at Lehigh. I just haven't seem much empirical evidence that points to a Lehigh providing a vastly superior academic experience in this realm. Well wait, overall, Lehigh is ranked 30 vs 47 in US News? OK, well, the US News puts the PSU b school way ahead of Lehigh. Freshman retention? About the same. Class size? OK, Lehigh wins on that one. But PSU is not a series of huge lecture classes either. A myth IMO. Not what my s has experienced at all.<br>
So WP, what exactly is your association with Lehigh? You keep talking about how we're all defending our choices here. Creative writing prof or maybe Abnormal Psych? Administrator? Seems like you have more than a passing interest in Lehigh - responding to chances threads and such. So what is it? Most of the other posters have come clean. It's your turn...
And stop the PSU proud stuff...followed by rants on how it's a factory.</p>

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<p>as for people having "a blast" at psu, i cannot disagree. but it is quite a party school.
lehigh is more of a work hard and party hard school.
anyway, it is unfair to ask whether or not a school is "worth it" based on their tag price. unless of course you've already received your final financial aid package decisions from the schools. you NEVER know who could give you the most money. i've heard many instances where a student got more money from a private college (more expensive) than from a public one (cheaper--schools like rutgers, temple, psu.) in this case, it is quite possible for you to get more money from a PA school than a NJ school. tag prices are NOT final prices.</p>

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<p>Toneyrangerette ... At 1st glance one might think there's little to compare Lehigh and Davidson. But in fact only 30% of Lehigh undergrads are engineering. Well over half are arts & science, economics & business (which is prevalent in nearly every liberal arts college in the nation). In fact, Lehigh's student body and consequently its faculty include well over twice as many of these liberal artsy types at Lehigh than at Davidson. True Davidson only has a pre-eng course of study in its curricula. And indeed their geography and campus cultures are somewhat varied. And Davidson's been to the final 4 in hoops, much unlike LU. But not nearly so much as you've implied. Davidson, like you claim Lehigh to be, is essentially a pre professional school as well , with nearly all graduates going on to post graduate training. And it is the issue, i.e. comparing campus cultures, costs, and values. What we're learning seems to be that among the 3, only price tag (and not even cost, since we've not at all discussed financial aid) seems to have any modicum of precision or exactness. </p>

<p>They compete for similarly bright students, most of whom are seeking arts and sciences curricula and most of whom will go on to professional schools of some type. They undoubtedly compete for faculty with the exceptions of accounting (none of that I can see at Davidson) and engineering. Both require substantial scholarly, i.e. publishing experience. Even at DC, none will get tenure simply being expert teachers. </p>

<p>On one thing we're in agreement: there is little empirical data ... with one major exception ... that a Lehigh bus degree is more valuable than PSU accounting major. And THAT is, once again, the very reason that there are so many thousands studying at PSU vs. Lehigh. Not by choice, by economic statification. Sad but true. And YOU are the very evidence that despite the general trends among employers, notably Wall Streeters to hire the more elite, exclusive grads of Lehigh and moreso the Princetons, Colgates, Yalies, Penn grads ... even a Penn State or Suny system grad can and does, on occasion, make it there. It is a doable thing, albeit not the general scenario/rule, as you've rightly noted.</p>

<p>Now to my view of Lehigh ... I don't care for Lehigh at all. It's got one of the worst locations for a campus on the planet ... gotta be a billy goat to matriculate there, it's as you've shown, sorely overpriced for what they've been able to show they deliver, the neighborhood is not awful, but darn close. One of our gov school (in entrepreneurship) kids had her car window smashed, door jacked open, ipod lifted ... in the parking garage at noon on a Wednesday, during the school year. Go figure. Sure, that can happen in podunk, but as she was assured by the local gendarmes, too bad, unfortunate, happens all the time, we'll put it on our list, don't ever expect to hear anything definititve. She didn't. </p>

<p>There's relatively more good ol' frat boys type of socialization, way too much boozing (was it the swimming team that all got arrested this fall, made the national news?), and aside from selectivity</p>

<p>Clearly Asa Packard's vision has long since mutated into this working to become something other than a practical, engineering school. It is at its essence a small liberal arts university with a very decent engineering school tacked on for history's sake. </p>

<p>Lastly, I did like your abnormal psych projection. Very much. Long been said of me. btw, my so-labeled rants are no more so than yours. You've matched me nearly word for word, it seems. Nice going. ;) We both must find this entertaining. It's been your choice to spill your guts, and implying there's some badge of honor in that, but it's not mine. I trust your visitation to this site that was long ago abandoned by your offstping fleeing to the sites and sounds of HV may be seeking affirmation for your son's admittedly contrary decision from what you'd have done. Why else?</p>

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<p>i went to gov school at lehigh...
gov school students are not supposed to have cars on campus, so i don't know why that incident occured anyway unless her parents brought her car up on a visitation day.
while the lehigh neighborhood isn't the best, you must also consider other schools facing similar situations. upenn is right next to west philly, but in no way does it make the school any less reputable than it is.
and i definitely had the preconception of lehigh being in the middle of nowehere in a boring little christmas-town. but after spending my time there for gov school it really isn't that bad. allentown is like 20 min away, so is whitehall with all it's shopping/grocery stores/etc. while route 309 is in close vincinity and convenient for u to get into a more exciting area. i don't understand why you think billy goats would go there.</p>

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<p>Who said it was during gov school? I believe the post noted this was during the school year. angle wings, xo to you too, but you must read more carefully to earn your isosceles wings. ;)</p>

<p>How'd ya like to have the motto ... "our neighborhoods no worse than Penn/West Philly and its speedboys,not nearly as crappy as Temple, and not really a boring little Christmas-town. ... it really isn't THAT bad, and it's only 20 minutes from a whole lot nicer area." I'd like to see you walk 3 times without ceasing to the last frat house @ the hilltop from the main drag. It'd kill you ... and nearly everyone else. But not a billy goat. </p>

<p>I'd always heard that Lehigh girls have calves that would put Joe Bellino's to shame ... now I knows why! :eek:</p>

<p>P.S. Are you attending or planning to attend Lehigh? How come?</p>

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<p>So - WP - ya think I should I change my screen name to toneyranger or tonerangerette?
Yeah, I enjoy this. Have always been an argumentative type, honed by four brothers willing to engage me from a young age. Plus I do a lot of boring writing at my computer and this is a nice break...
Why am I here? Why are you here? I like seeing other perspectives (and yes arguing). I also learned ALOT from this board when we were looking and like to share what I've learned too - enough said.
Regarding Davidson and Lehigh...we just don't agree. I wouldn't lump the accountants at Lehigh in with the liberals arts types. No way. And there's lots of those accountants and engineers running around. Nothing wrong with that - just that those kids tend to be a bit different than kids at a pure liberal arts school studying philosophy or maybe abnormal psych.
On to PSU vs Lehigh. You still feel that Lehigh buys you something on Wall Street. I'm saying that it doesn't. It's not a target school...don't think it ever will be. Hey, maybe it should be, but I didn't make those rules. My time on the street exposed me to this particular brand of elitism. So maybe that's why I just don't see it...
Yeah, I'm a mutt who did OK. And I can't stand spending money when it doesn't seem worth it. Costco and TJMAX all the way. But I must admit I was tempted to step out of form a bit and was torn by the comparison of Lehigh with scholarship and PSU - almost free. My son was not. Given my nature, I guess I'm not surprised he made the decision he did (some weird combo of genes and environment). Not too much angst here about that. Now if he got into an Ivy and turned it down...hmmm...THAT would really surprise me.
And yeah, those hills at Lehigh are formidable. No billy goats in site but I did see a lot of very fit-looking college students.</p>

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<p>i did read the post and got confused about why u said during the school year, but you said gov school student. not gov school grad. soo..yeah.
the hills were pretty intense the first few days i was there, but i personally think it's a great way to get students in shape with daily exercise. especially for those who arent particularly fond of the gym or don't have the self-discipline. or the time. plus, it's a beautiful view once you get up there. worth the hike if you ask me.
and i'm considering lehigh. i know it's a good school, challenging, etc. but i've also been in lectures/classes with lehigh's own professors so i have had good experiences. i've also met with two of them on a personal basis for advice on the group project we had to do for gov school. i'm aiming for international business, which they have a concentration in. plus their global area/thing whatever u call it, is very strong, and they offer a unqiue program called global citizenship which, unlike many other schools, allows for freshman year travel abroad. i thought the dorms were pretty good. more spacious than some others i've seen. nothing fancy, but not bad. the only thing was that there was some weird plumbing problem when i was there b/c the toilet wouldn't stop flushing. it didn't affect us much though.
let's just say i left there with a better impression than i expected.</p>

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<p>No love for nova?</p>

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<p>Wow, old thread but earlier someone stated Bucknell is known for business…actually Bucknell has NO business school, not even Accounting as a major; only options are BA in Economics or some sore of “management” certficate. The 2011 edition of the Princeton Review’s list of recommended business schools lists Lehigh but NOT Nova
FWIW. As far as safety, if you’re asking about Nova you may want to look into the cause of the mysterious death of the junior who was found dead in his apartment this spring in Bryn Mawr, the same neighboring town from where a thug drove a stolen car in a high speed police chase that tragically killed another Nova student last fall.</p>

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<p>Well, this is obviously an old thread, but since people seem still interested in “debating” which business schools are better than others, here are my 2 cents…
First of all, the rankings are irrelevant. In this past year’s most recent Undergrad B-School rankings (Businessweek, I believe) put Mendoza at Notre Dame, and Goizueta at Emory ahead of Wharton. Now, Emory and Notre Dame are two excellent Universities, with very good business schools…but come on, better than Wharton? Immediately, that should tell you something about the flawed nature of rankings.
Rankings aside, prestige is probably the most important factor when companies decide which schools to favor in their recruitment processes. Therefore in my opinion schools like, CMU and Wharton will have distinct advantages over the likes of PSU and Lehigh, regardless of what the rankings say. In my opinion, Pennsylvania Business School rankings look something like:

  1. Wharton
  2. CMU
  3. Bucknell
  4. Villanova
  5. Lehigh
  6. PSU
  7. Pitt.
    Obviously, some other highly-respected schools such as Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, etc. will have some recruitment, but they don’t have business majors, so I left them off my personal list. Take my list with a grain of salt, but the main point I am trying to make is that the rankings aren’t accurate, nor are they exceptionally reliable.</p>