One of the best business schools in PA?

<p>i do not even know how to respond to mountain hawk, or whistlepig for that matter. i literally laughed out loud reading your posts. how dare you question toneranger who has apparently made a successful, happy life for himself. </p>

<p>i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you go to some no-name college and have an inferiority complex and make up for it by acting like a big shot on cc. and even if not, woopty doo!</p>

<p>you and i each have a different view of success. so you work on wall street and make 500k a year? but what do you know about your family? have you ever been to one of your sons baseball games? what about your daughters first word-were you there for that? or were you wasting your life at some big firm, addicted to your work? -and thats fine, but good luck living with yourselves.</p>

<p>the two of you just proved to me which school is best for me. this stuff isn't what life is about. why would i want to go to a school and be in the presence of snobby, know-it-all, ignorant, spoiled fools like you? thanks for making this decision for me a no-brainer! :)</p>

<p>No problem, I'm a very daring soul. ;)</p>

<p>toneyrangerette is one tough, smart gal. She can take whatever a couple of crazy cowpokes have to sling. Yep, my sheepskins are nonamers ... PS(I love)U. I definitely claim inferior but it's nothing to do with academic pedigree. (If you can keep a secret, I'm a victim not of my academic environment, rather genetics. Runs in the fam.:cool:)</p>

<p>You're right ... one need not go to Lehigh (or maybe even PSU) to claim rites to idiocy. :eek: Perhaps your no brainer decision is well merited? :confused: :p ;) jk young fella. Have a ball wherever you're headed. Here's hoping your classmates find you as pleasant as we have.</p>

<p>Good luck to you medalanoy. One thing I can say is that most PSU and Lehigh grads (with the exclusion of WP of course) had a good UG experience, show great pride in their school, and reach out to support (and defend) fellow grads when needed. Of course, there's a army of those souls for PSU - so your prospects are good. (I currently work with a few - it's actually a bit strange..is there something in the water out there?)
I think you'll do fine - maybe you and my "underachieving" (LOL) son will cross paths someday.</p>

<p>Hey, I'm proud of my PSU roots! If only JoePa'd give it up. :( Had a fine experience there. The missus did too. But there's a certain "tension" in being part of the largest alumni association on the planet and knowing that something like every 8th Pennsylvanian has a wallhanger just like mine. ON one hand ... Great being part of a megahuge club. On the other ... one realizes it was fun and nice but definitely nothing special, being one of the masses. That reality sheds little light on what goes on in and out of the classroom aside from the reality that there were lots of learners in most of them.</p>

<p>Hey, WP - but it IS special based on what I see. You're selling yourself short here. These kids LOVE their school and have a blast while getting a good education. I compare it to my state u - no-one wore tshirts - spirit was low. Football, basketball? Don't remember even one game even though I attended a few. All concrete and blocks - very little green. Professors at my school were rated most likely to avoid students in one of those stupid surveys. On target I'd say. Food was HORRIBLE. Dorms were a wreck. Very few go back to visit once they graduate. Made some good friends and did OK I guess, but the experience just doesn't seem comparable to what I see at PSU. Perhaps I'm deluding myself...or maybe my son has a different experience due to those honors perks (it is a good program). I used to think it was a raggy old state school until I visited (for the first time a couple of years ago). From what I see, it's a real neat place...and those who are smart and motivated will get the most out of it. Lucky souls in my opinion. And I would think that even if my son decided to go to Lehigh. I love seeing those old couples holding hands, smiling and walking around during football weekends. Enough said...</p>

<p>Well, the stats don't lie. PSU Main has a rather poor attrition rate relative to the universe of ...universities. One can only speculate as to why so many do not come back (proportionately). I agree ... compared to many publix, Psu has 2 major points to engender enthusiasm ... great basketball (jst testing to see how carefully or IF anyone reads) and College Ave. Brockport or Purchase or Oswego or .... well they don't have the B & W and Beaver and all the other great athletic events to nurture the love ... and a Skeller to drown the sorrows of another loss to Michigan.</p>

<p>And it's those oldies that have made Happy Valley a whole lot happier in terms of $$$. One of the faster growing retirement communities in the NE.</p>

<p>btw, and this is anecdotal, as I concur that Penn State is not a hot ticket on Wall St., but they do land a few there from the tens of thousands of bidness majors aspiring to get there or close ... Mr. Smeal of Smeal College of Bidness fame? From DuBois and a partner in the bond section at Goldman. And Mr. Schreyer? The COB (ret) @ Merrill Lynch. Eddie Hintz of Hintz Alumni Hall fame? PITB investment guru.</p>

<p>And you're right ... there's lots of warm fuzzies about HV, but little evidence of massified stellar learning going down. That's a personal thing. And the truth of that is that if sufficiently motivated, consumption of learning can happen virtually anywhere. So it boils back to network. And not who's going to the football games but who's got the influence on Wall St. or at Wharton or in Harvard Med School. </p>

<p>So they may not have many, but they do have some ... and a very few of the blue and white who knocked down very much green.</p>

<p>I guess it's relative but I thought the freshman retention rate for PSU Main folks was pretty good (low 90s) and the graduation rate is quite good for a state school too. Who are we comparing to here?
Some PSU ladies are doing quite well too. Don't forget Patricia Woertz - # 7 on the Fortune list of 100 most powerful women. And Valerie Plame too! Not too shabby.
Yeah, there are dolts too. A more realistic representation of the workplace IMO.<br>
And I still disagree with your opinion on the learning environment. If you pick and choose carefully, you can find small classes, motivated teachers and lots of good discussion. And not just in honors classes (although they're open to all and are up to over 250 classes per semester). My s and some of his more motivated peers seem to be able to hunt and seek out those gems. He also knows a few kids who do the min to get by - and are gobbled up by those masses you speak of. I guess it's not the place for everyone...</p>

<p>Mdelanoy12, I hope you do not think whistle pig in any way represents the experience of most Penn State graduates. </p>

<p>Whistle Pig, maybe you should have done better while at Penn State. There is a high concentration of Penn State graduates in Pennsylvania, but it is easier to pick out the better students by seeing which ones only went to University Park. That narrows it down significantly. It sounds like you may not have done well out in the business world, but there are plenty of people from Penn State that have made a lot of money. Also, when did the success of a school’s name fall on the shoulders of the people on Wall Street? My friend’s dad was actually the one that got me hooked on the idea of Penn State, while we were flying in his plane down to Florida. He loved Penn State and has done very well. I am sorry that you may not have taken advantage of the opportunities that have come your way. You have this half-hearted "rah-rah" memory of Penn State, but you tear it down like it is some mediocre education pushing mindless bodies through revolving doors of classrooms. I know you graduated about 20 years ago when it was a lot easier to get into, but show some pride in your 2 degrees. You wouldn’t have happened to start at a branch campus would you? It just seems like you have a lot of pent up frustration towards your degrees. Penn State is what you make of it. If you want, you can float through and graduate with just above a 2.0. I think you and mrmountainhawk must be taking some of the same stuff. Maybe you should drop the act and show some loyalty. Age does not always translate into wisdom. I think your reality may be very different from that of other Penn State alumni. </p>

<p>“I definitely claim inferior but it's nothing to do with academic pedigree. (If you can keep a secret, I'm a victim not of my academic environment, rather genetics. Runs in the fam.)”</p>

<p>Maybe you’re right, maybe you just have bad genetics. </p>

<p>On a side note, the retention rate of Penn State University Park freshman has been one of the best for many years, compared with other major public universities. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.ir.ufl.edu/nat_rankings/students/retent_old.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ir.ufl.edu/nat_rankings/students/retent_old.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Your loyalty and affection for our school is great, and you misjudge mine. Our difference is that I don't translate that from any perception that mine was a personalized, highly engaging pedagogical experience. If yours was, terrific. But mine, and I venture to say most (which would be the safest, surest bet on the planet) was not that. Doesn't mean learning doesn't go on. Just means it's less than personal. Illustrating that point only calls for asking a student how many profs they had over their 4 years who they know on a personal basis and how many know them? Perhaps you have many. You'd be the very rare exception.</p>

<p>Let's get to the bottom of this:</p>

<p>Please rank Lehigh, Villanova, and PSU in terms of their UNDERGRAD BUSINESS SCHOOL</p>

<p>I would probably say:</p>

<ol>
<li>Villanova</li>
<li>Lehigh</li>
<li>PSU</li>
</ol>

<p>Do you agree?</p>

<p>Of course you would say that. You're the same guy that thinks businessweek is more accurate than USNews. Too bad USNews puts them in a different order.</p>

<p>OK. A place like C-Dirt is unscientific but enlightening. It's cool that you can compare schools. I'm turning there because I'm a little tired of hearing one alum speak for the thousands out there regarding the PSU academic experience. At least we have more than a few kids piping up in forums like these<br>
Overall, PSU rates #45 overall, Lehigh, #86, Villanova 94
But it's most interesting to drill down to the subcategories like professors.
None of the schools are particularly impressive on that front with rankings from 200 to 500. Drilling down even further, it's very interesting that a mega- place like PSU has 36% of the surveyed kids answering that "my advisor really seems to care about me" compared to mid twenties for Lehigh and Villanova.
The measures of how interesting lectures are and how helpful professors are look pretty good for PSU, especially given how large the school is. The "student body" ratings for PSU are off the charts, backing up that strong spirit and community we've been referring to.<br>
So, yeah, if you don't reach out, forget about relationships with your professors at PSU. It seems those who do are rewarded. But where are these thousands who are complaining about just being a number? Actually, if you check out some of the numbers for SUNY, you'll find them.
Ranking the business schools....IMO- they're all in the same ballpark. Just depends on whether you want big or small.</p>

<p>i am willing to bet my bank account that whistlepig didn't even attend psu. he's just trying to make a better argument and his ignorance and lack of common sense really come out in his posts. actually, he is making a fool of himself and i kinda feel bad for the guy. these cc posts are his life, and therefor i do not believe there is a chance in hell that he went to psu main all 4 years.</p>

<p>and jec, do not worry, what pig says does not phase me in the least. he is an arrogant moron. thank you for your consideration. </p>

<p>and toneranger, thank you for actually having some common sense in your head. </p>

<p>BOTTOM LINE: JUDGING BY ITS DEFENDANTS, LEHIGH CLEARLY SUCKS.
AND LILWAYNE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR STUPID BIASED OPINION! YOU'VE STATED IT LIKE 4 TIMES ON HERE BUT NO ONE CARES.</p>

<p>all in all, these posts have made me develop so much pride for psu just because im having to defend it to mindless ********.</p>

<p>jec7483- Most schools are what you make of them. It is good you are learning that. Maybe you won't bash Elon anymore. ;)</p>

<p>Fair enough Toneranger. Sorry for the late response as I don't visit here often, but with regard to your points ...</p>

<p>1.) I wasn't knocking your academic background or doubting your professional one as much as I was looking for some clarification and some sense of what value your perspective has. And by that, I mean your perspective on what I have personally written because I'm not sure you fully digested my initial comments when formulating what amounted to a nuanced "defense" of PSU.</p>

<p>2.)The problem, of course, is that nobody commenting on Lehigh's behalf here has ever lumped the school in with the Ivies or their equivalent and the main reason aside from the obvious one is that it is beyond irrelevant. From the Penn State POV even referencing them is a false argument. My high school sent a mixture of kids to Rutgers who ranged from exceedingly bright to mediocrities to utter morons and while any RU supporter will predictably and understandably point to the first batch they are not what dictates the perceived "stand alone" value of a degree from somewhere. The sample of Penn State grads I know is considerably smaller but represents a similar range. There's nothing you can't accomplish coming from either of those schools, but there is more inherent value in being a pure breed than there is in being a mutt. You pretty much know what you have in a Golden Retriever but a mutt has to win people over. It is wishful thinking to believe that is not an advantage in the dog pound of life.</p>

<p>3.) Penn State Honors College is not Penn State, if you will. Clearly you know as well as everyone else does why they choose to make the distinction. </p>

<p>4.) I was not suggesting you painted your son as being exceptional in the purely academic sense. In spite of the almost comedic hysteria and neurosis that envelop this website, success in life does not hinge on where you went to school, what your major was ranked, what your first job is, what grad school you got into or anything of the sort. This stuff only matters for unexceptional people, which is something life will measure in a way college can't. Nobody at Harvard needs a Harvard degree more than the person who has the least business being there.</p>

<p>5.) I was only asking because typically Lehigh only throws merit money at people who can get into much better schools unless there are extremely unique circumstances. </p>

<p>6.) This discussion of what is or isn't a big time name doesn't mimic any I've had as a grown up and, truthfully, I'd feel sorry for anyone who routinely has talks of this nature. But a million and one unsolicited affirmations later (both socially and professionally) I don't even have to be curious, let alone insecure, about how Lehigh grads are perceived among the mass of people who attended high prestige schools. And I doubt many other alums do either. It just is what it is. I'm not saying you don't have a right to express your perspective on this, but confronted with your outsider's impression of what other people think versus the life that unfolds before me and my peers, forgive me if my strongest rebuttal is to take a moment to laugh.</p>

<p>7.) I completely agree. Only I would add that one better choose PSU with a clear sense of purpose and try to stick to the script. Because for all the talk about class size or department rankings there is a lot to be said for the ability to follow your bliss after school. I envy the sheer randomness with which my friends from truly elite schools have been able to choose careers or change paths. It is a little harder coming from Lehigh but a lot harder from a school like Penn State. If someone wants an illuminating lesson on the true value of their degree they should try stepping out of the comfort zone that their major provides.</p>

<p>8.)I love everything about college football. I was just teasing.</p>

<p>9.) Not entirely true. It is in an ugly part of town. It's not an overly effete or excessively intellectual environment. The topgraphy is dreadful. And the case of beer to girl ratio is probably 10:1. So it has a lot going against it in an A or B decision but there are also a lot of people who instantly love the place. You may find it inexplicable. And it isn't for everyone but its also a bit silly to assume that Lehigh is always a victim in the weeding out process based on your extremely limited pool of experience. I'm not entirely sure that people turned off by the terrain, the partying, the surrounding aesthetics, or the tendency among students to work hard and then shut up rather than constantly having their lights on are not compensated for by people who see many of those things as non-factors or absolute virtues. I didn't know anyone who chose Lehigh over Penn, Cornell or similar schools and then proceeded to act like they were attending one, but I knew a bunch of brilliant, fun, unassuming kids who chose Lehigh instead because they didn't want that kind of 24/7 hothouse environment. </p>

<p>9b.) You'll have to be more specific as I suffer narcoleptic seizures when forced to talk about myself.</p>

<p>MrMM - I'll be brief.
I love and actually prefer mutts - had one growing up - GREAT dog. I would choose one again in a second. And research shows that mutts generally have better temperaments than pure breds and suffer from less disease. Hmmm...wonder if we can make some comparisons here...
As a state school grad, I laugh at the prestige snobs I'm surrounded by too. I just can't seem to get away from it - sometimes wish I could move actually. But when it comes down to it, I think we all have a bit of it in us. Whether it's putting our nose up at Lehigh, PSU, or Slippery Rock. It just seems that the bar moves a bit depending on where you live. I sat with a nice lady on a plane a couple of weeks ago - from NJ - and she was hugely impressed by the fact that my son went to PSU main. Go figure.
What makes ME laugh are folks who believe THEIR school is superior when it's really in the same basic ballpark. OK - Harvard > Penn State No doubt. Harvard > Lehigh. No doubt. But I just don't see clearly the Lehigh > Penn State argument. Does Lehigh have an edge? Yeah...better scores better selectivity. Is it a no-brainer choice over PSU? No way - not for business. It was a TOUGH choice. Our opinion... and that nice Lehigh business prof we met actually agreed. One is big. One is smaller with more personal attention. Both have well respected accounting and finance...and I might add...engineering programs.
Hey, again, I LIKE Lehigh. Would have made that choice if it were up to me. But i truly don't think my son lost anything by going with his heart...and the proof is in the pudding. Doing well, happy, seeking out opportunities. My state school pedigree never got in the way...so why would it make things harder for him?
Only one question on your background...have you been to both campuses? Recently? PSU has a great new business building. I know, of course you're a Lehigh grad...</p>

<p>mdelanoy - Whistle pig, toneranger, MrMM, and all of the other posters on this thread have contributed insightful information that has lead to an educated discussion regarding the differences between Penn State and Lehigh. All you have managed to do is demonstrate your immense naivety, and show us that you can't stand not being right.....not to mention that you're a prick. God forbid US news rankings aren't absolutely 100% correct - you speak of them like they're the holy grail of college selection</p>

<p>They affirm those in need of affirmation. That's about all. btw, I now own mdelanoy12's harmonica and the $4.23 in his college savings account. His ploy is to make sure he qualifies for all possible sources of aid, thus losing all his assets in misguided wagers. And to answer Lil Wayne's inquiry:</p>

<p>2nd runner up ... Miss Barbizon School of Modeling (Harrisburg Chapter)</p>

<p>1st runner up ... Miss Institute of Computer Tech</p>

<p>Miss BS of PA 2008 ... Miss DuBois Business College</p>

<p>There are no winners, no losers, and no rankings. It's a beauty contest. ;)</p>

<p>Hey great bedtime read for me. I gotta laugh at the sugggestion that WPig is a moron who couldn't get into PSUMain all 4 years. Anyone who writes like WP...definitely got a way with words. Brilliant!! LOL!</p>

<p>Disclaimer: got a little of all these schools in this family. Me: Lehigh undergrad (NOT business), U of Penn grad degree (NOT Wharton), son's a CMU grad (computer sci, NOT Tepper), nephew #1 senior at Villanova (NOT business major), nephew #2 Smeal senior.</p>

<p>To the OP: imo Penn is the best b school in PA, heck probably in the US. Second best is CMU without question. For the other 3: LU, VU and PSU, flip a coin, well a couple coins. Throw out the rankings. Personally: Lehigh is #3. What would you expect. I went there. I think the AVERAGE Lehigh business grad is, well, a bit above (smarter??statwise...I'll get killed for this) than the AVERAGE PSU b school grad. I'm also stuck a generation ago...I honestly think Lehigh's been a stronger school LONGER (notice I didn't say elite, though my whole life when I mention Lehigh I get a "great school". Perhaps not a gasp that Harvard might bring, but I don't live in Greenwich CT or Franklin Lakes, NJ so LU is, OK, elite enough.) </p>

<p>Nephew at Smeal seems to be getting great well rounded exposure to the world of business. But he's a good memorizer and test taker so lack of engaging classroom discourse is OK with him.Got a 3.6 almost 3.7, not in Schreyer. He's told me there's a lot of slackers at PSU, but some who are brilliant, typical of a large state school of good quality. He doesn't have a job yet. That could be a function of no internship served though. Says the 4.0 kids have NYC jobs lined up by now. In contrast my CMU son had his Goldman Sachs offer by October of senior year, grades lower than Smeal nephew. Remember too sheer # of kids graduating with Finance degree from Smeal this May. Hundreds probably. </p>

<p>Much is said about the Penn State alumni. Sure it's huge. Drive the PA Turnpike Saturday in the fall and count the number of vans and SUVs with those paw prints all over the back. Sorry and I really do like Penn State, been to games, they're amazing (Michigan Penn State in 06 was memorable) but if you're not part of it those paw prints all over the darn car can be obnoxious especially after the 500th one...</p>

<p>OK here's my take on Whistle Pig.
Indeed, he went to PSU but it was not his choice. A money issue perhaps. I have a good friend in this type of circumstance, and she always tells me that one of her regrets is that she didn't go to a "better" school. Smart lady...doing VERY well for herself. A bit of an inferiority complex...probably because she is surrounded by lots of Ivy types. Horrors...she was part of the masses who went to PSU.
I too didn't have a choice and tend to bash my old SUNY. But I don't regret what I did (how could I) and wouldn't dare try to discourage kids who are looking at SUNY as a choice - nor would I assume that the current experience there is necessarily the same as what is was many moons ago.<br>
Going to a school that doesn't have brand recognition, Mr MHM is right, means you do need to work harder to get noticed. But it's good for the soul to work hard. Builds character and fortitude. Personally, I think this applies to state schools AND to a lesser extent, some of the not quite elite universities - including Lehigh. That said, would my s have gone to an Ivy if he got in? Yeah - very likely. But he didn't and it's no disaster.<br>
WP, if you think this is affirmation, that's fine. I'm not bashing Lehigh - unlike those of you who are bashing or putting out vanilla stereotypes of PSU. I also believe I'm also not painting PSU in an unrealistic light. You want a place where you can disappear for a few years, do the min to get by, paint yourself blue and white and and chug brews? Fine.. see where your 2.5 GPA and lack of teacher recs get you. Have to be some of those types - maybe not as many - at Lehigh too (minus the paint of course - or perhaps substitute brown for blue). But if you're motivated, choose classes carefully (you can check out teachers online these days), reach out to your professors, and get involved, PSU can help you reach your dreams. We're not talking about an unending series of 1000-person classes staffed by clueless TAs.<br>
And contrary to what WP thinks, I would think this even if my s went to Lehigh.</p>