<p>There is not enough money in the US to really level the outcomes. Even much higher spending as in Kansas City had very little impact.</p>
<p>What is moral about helping people fail? What is moral about stealing money and devaluing talent, about treating individuals as though their lives and their time were expendable?</p>
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<p>Perhaps not the point of the OP on this, but AP exams cost money for the student. Rather a lot for a paycheck-to-paycheck family.</p>
<p>…and that’s a fair bit of $ even if they know that they can get some of the fee waived: <a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/waivers/guidelines/ap[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;
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<p>Still, the cost of an AP test is less than the cost of tuition and fees for the course at a college (even a community college). And, if the AP test would not result in any useful credit at the college to be attended, there is the option of not taking the AP test after taking the AP course.</p>
<p>But the cost of offering an AP course from the school’s point of view could be twofold:</p>
<p>a. There may be need for a better qualified teacher to teach the AP course.
b. There may be insufficient student demand, so that having a teacher teach a 10 student AP course may mean taking away a 30 student some other course in a school where every course is at full capacity.
c. The school’s courses in the prerequisite to the AP course are substandard, so there could be costs to improve them as well (e.g. hiring better teachers).</p>
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<p>But there isn’t full financial aid for an AP test. A family for whom $50 (the lower amount that it’s possible to pay for an AP exam if one is low income) is a budget buster is likely to get at least a Pell that would cover the local CC.</p>
<p>I’m just saying that not only does a school need to afford teachers for AP sections, which is challenging for the reasons you list above, for individual students, simply taking the tests is costly too. (So are ACTs and SATs, though there are waivers for the full amount of those, I believe, as there are for the college app fees, in many cases.)</p>
<p>I understood that AP teachers do have to get materials to teach with, at a cost to…? Perhaps they can be down-loaded from the website?? Does the school need to get certified in any way to offer AP classes? exams?</p>
<p>Neal Gabler! Now I remember where I heard that name before. He was the more liberal commentator on Fox News Watch - he was on there with Cal Thomas, Jim Pinkerton, etc. It was driving me nuts.</p>
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How so? Can you elaborate on these thoughts?</p>
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<p>AP syllabuses can be found on the CB’s web site.</p>
<p>There are a few subjects where textbooks can be downloaded free on the web, such as [calculus[/url</a>], [url=<a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-21f-003-learning-chinese-a-foundation-course-in-mandarin-spring-2011/online-textbook/]Chinese[/url”>http://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-21f-003-learning-chinese-a-foundation-course-in-mandarin-spring-2011/online-textbook/]Chinese[/url</a>], [url=<a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-8-002-a-wikitextbook-for-introductory-mechanics-fall-2009/]physics[/url”>A WikiTextBook for Introductory Mechanics | Supplemental Resources | MIT OpenCourseWare]physics[/url</a>].</p>
<p>More material can be found here: [url=<a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/]Free”>Search | MIT OpenCourseWare | Free Online Course Materials]Free</a> Online Course Materials | Courses | MIT OpenCourseWare](<a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-18-001-calculus-online-textbook-spring-2005/textbook/]calculus[/url”>http://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-18-001-calculus-online-textbook-spring-2005/textbook/)</p>
<p>However, there are other hurdles that a school needs to handle in order to add AP courses (teacher qualification, student demand, etc.).</p>
<p>bovertine, if you read the wiki on Gabler, you’ll find more interesting things about him.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus, thanks for the links - the one on Mandarin is perfect!</p>
<p>“To me the solution might just be you have the same high quality public education throughout the country, funded by income tax not property tax…so at least kids start off on the same footing and get the same education to begin with.”</p>
<p>okay - that assumes that money (be it from property tax, income tax, or tax deductible donations) is the primary factor in what makes a high quality school. That assumption is false.</p>
<p>The quality of students and parents (their interest and commitment to education). Also, some of the greatest primary and secondary teachers in this country are not very highly paid - but they are still great teachers.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be fun if we could spend tax dollars to draft and contract for the best teachers. until you have the authority to do that, there is only so much more money can do.</p>
<p>ucb:</p>
<p>from a practical standpoint, the only fair cost is your item b. “Better” teachers can be an issue in any course, even wood shop.</p>
<p>China is taking rural kids out of homes and putting them in boarding schools to try to get them better educated. This might be a solution for kids from US ghetto schools. Get them out of that negative environment to focus on school. Call it charter schools on steroids.</p>
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<p>True, but it just means that the potential cost of adding a course that was not offered previously could require the hiring of a teacher for the course, whether it is AP something, wood shop, or something else. I.e. it is a potential cost of adding an AP course, but is not unique to adding an AP course in that adding some other course could also bear a similar kind of cost.</p>
<p>^^I somewhat disagree, ucb. A certificated HS math teacher – one who majored in math in undergrad – should be able to teach AP Calc. A certificated HS English teacher should be able to teach AP Eng Lang. Ditto a certificated history teacher teaching APUSH or AP Govt. </p>
<p>Assuming 25/30 students per class, the “cost” of an AP class is no more than any other course – teacher salary is teacher salary. The same ~30 students could be taking US History in College Prep, or in ‘Honors’ or in AP. One class, one teacher.</p>
<p>OTOH, if a HS does not have any music teachers or program and then desires to add AP Music Theory, a salary cost increase is unavoidable. The same would be true for Comp Sci.</p>
<p>IMO, the article is nonsense. </p>
<p>I googled and found that Gabler attended UMichigan. I found it interesting that he includes the fact that his D is a Rhodes Scholar in HIS bio. Strange…to put it mildly. So, I googled Gabler Rhodes and learned that his D began college at Colby and transferred to Stanford. [Alumni</a>, student named Rhodes Scholars](<a href=“You've requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News”>You've requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News)</p>
<p>So, can I say hypocrite? Or maybe he hates his D? I don’t know…but it’s definitely odd.</p>
<p>The article notes and bemoans the fact that a large # of Kennedy School students are also getting law, biz and med degrees from Harvard. He sees this as a sign of “hyperactivity.” IME, the law, biz, and med students who are getting degrees from the Kennedy school are the ones who are interested in community service. If anything, being dual enrolled in the Kennedy School is going to HURT the MBA who is looking for a job at Goldman Sachs or a law student aiming for a top law firm. It stamps “interested in public service” on your forehead. Why should he criticize the young people who ARE interested in government?!!! </p>
<p>What alternative is he suggesting? That we insist that students at the top schools reflect the socioeconomic make up of the US? </p>
<p>Now, don’t misunderstand. I think that the economic disparity in the US is growing and I think it’s a bad thing. But blaming this on the top 20 colleges/universities in the US is simplistic, to put it mildly.</p>
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But a lot of the time there aren’t 25/30 students who are willing to take the AP course. There may only be 5/10, in which case the cost is more than it is for the other courses.</p>
<p>And from the other end of the spectrum</p>
<p>[Essay</a> on the experience of teaching a student with intellectual disabilities | Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2012/01/23/essay-experience-teaching-student-intellectual-disabilities]Essay”>Essay on the experience of teaching a student with intellectual disabilities)</p>
<p>Oops…</p>
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<p>Of course, then the course is not offered, nor should any other small-enrollment class that is not mandated (to be fair). One local HS dropped AP German, for example, because the enrollment had dropped to 10, while other AP’s, including other AP Languages, were packed in the high-30’s. It was just an inequitable situation.</p>