OOS students in Wisconsin universities may have trouble voting

Parents Forum
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<p>“So now you’re saying that your son is committing voter fraud? Interesting, but I don’t agree.”</p>

<p>You said if one has a license to drive and a car in Maine, one is required to turn in their OOS license and get a Maine license and registration as an affirmation they are a legal resident. So, according to your criteria, he is not a legal resident, correct? How then can his voting in Maine not be considered fraud? Isn’t it a fact, that one must be a legal resident of a state to vote in a state? </p>

<p>I do not believe he needs to affirm his residency by giving up his NYS license to assert his right to vote where he attends college. </p>

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<p>No, this is a requirement of someone who has become a legal resident. The affirmation of legal residency came when your son registered to vote. Under Maine law, he then had 30 days to trade his New York license for a Maine license. Failing to do this did not mean that his change to Maine legal residency was no longer valid; it meant that he was in violation of Maine motor vehicle laws. He is still a legal resident of Maine. He can still vote in Maine without it being a fraudulent act. And yes, it is a fact that one must be a legal resident of a state to vote in that state.</p>

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<p>You can believe whatever you want. Giving up his New York license and getting a Maine license isn’t “affirming” anything - it’s simply an act of complying with Maine law, just like every other Maine resident is required to do. Once again- the driver’s license requirement and the right to vote are two different things, no matter how hard you try to tie them together. In case you still deny that this is a statutory requirement, I present the following:</p>

<p>*§1251. License required</p>

<ol>
<li>Violation. Except as provided in section 510, subsection 1, a person commits an offense of operating a motor vehicle without a license if that person operates a motor vehicle on a public way or parking area:
A. Without being licensed. Violation of this paragraph is a Class E crime, which is a strict liability crime as defined in Title 17-A, section 34, subsection 4-A; [2003, c. 452, Pt. Q, §17 (NEW); 2003, c. 452, Pt. X, §2 (AFF).]
B. In violation of a condition or restriction on the license. Violation of this paragraph is a Class E crime, which is a strict liability crime as defined in Title 17-A, section 34, subsection 4-A; [2003, c. 452, Pt. Q, §17 (NEW); 2003, c. 452, Pt. X, §2 (AFF).]
C. Without a license issued by this State if a resident of this State for more than 30 days but fewer than 90 days. Violation of this paragraph is a traffic infraction; [2005, c. 314, §5 (AMD).]
D. Without a license issued by this State if a resident of this State for more than 90 days. Violation of this paragraph is a Class E crime, which is a strict liability crime as defined in Title 17-A, section 34, subsection 4-A; or [2005, c. 314, §5 (AMD).]
E. Unless a permit is issued pursuant to subsection 7, with a license issued by this State that expired within the previous 90 days. Violation of this paragraph is a traffic infraction. [2013, c. 24, §1 (AMD).]
[ 2013, c. 24, §1 (AMD) .]
1-A. Residents required to obtain license. Within 30 days of becoming a resident of this State, a person shall apply to obtain a license in accordance with section 1301. Except as provided in section 510, subsection 1, a person who fails to comply with the requirement of this subsection and operates a motor vehicle on a public way or parking area commits:
A. A traffic infraction if the person has been a resident for less than 90 days; or [1999, c. 771, Pt. C, §9 (NEW); 1999, c. 771, Pt. D, §§1, 2 (AFF).]
B. A Class E crime if the person has been a resident for at least 90 days. [1999, c. 771, Pt. C, §9 (NEW); 1999, c. 771, Pt. D, §§1, 2 (AFF).]
[ 2001, c. 687, §14 (AMD) .]*</li>
</ol>

<p>Found here:</p>

<p><a href=“Title 29-A, §1251: License required”>http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec1251.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Notice that there is nothing in the law about needing a driver’s license in order to be able to vote. And as you know, there is nothing in the election law about needing a driver’s license in order to be able to vote, either. They are two separate issue.</p>

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<p>^^^
Note also that after 90 days, this is a strict liability crime.</p>

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<p>Ok. So he is a legal resident in Maine, is eligible to vote in Maine and has exercised his right to do so, even though he has not given up his NYS drivers license. Therefore, an OOS student does not need to give up their OOS license to vote in Maine. </p>

<p>Here is your initial comment on the subject on the subject. </p>

<p>“In Maine, part of the obligations of becoming a legal resident of the state is to trade your old (out-of -state) driver’s license for a Maine driver’s license, and to register your car that you have in Maine (if you have one) as a Maine car. If an out-of-state student that comes to school in Maine wants to make Maine their new legal residence in order to vote in Maine, fine, but you need to do the things that every new resident is legally required to do.” </p>

<p>That last part is obviously not a true statement - when in fact, one can vote in Maine without doing any of those things. My son is proof of that. </p>

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<p>“Notice that there is nothing in the law about needing a driver’s license in order to be able to vote. And as you know, there is nothing in the election law about needing a driver’s license in order to be able to vote, either. They are two separate issue.” </p>

<p>This whole thread is about making it difficult for OOS students to VOTE where they go to school. Nothing else. My son can vote in Maine. It is legal for him to vote in Maine despite the fact he has an OOS driver’s license and OOS car registration. There is nothing in Maine election law which requires an OOS student to give up their OOS driver’s licenses and car registration to be legally eligible to vote. Nothing, nada, zilch. </p>

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<p>You’re right, voting in Maine without giving up a driver’s license from another state is not a requirement of Maine law. You won’t find it anywhere. But failing to trade your out-of-state driver’s license for a Maine license within the prescribed period of time after becoming a legal resident of Maine is a crime. You can read the law in my post #101 above. Again, you’re conflating the two issues.</p>

<p>**Your son is a legal resident of Maine. It sounds like you are no longer claiming otherwise. SCOTUS has said he can make that choice even if he is only in Maine to go to college.</p>

<p>**Being a legal resident of Maine gives him the right to vote in Maine elections.</p>

<p>**Being a legal resident of Maine means that your son needs to trade his New York driver’s license for a Maine license. It’s in black and white in the law quoted in my post #101. College students from out of state who have changed their legal residency to Maine are not afforded special status - they must comply with the motor vehicle laws just like any other Maine legal resident.</p>

<p>**Violation of Maine motor vehicle laws does not mean that you son has forfeited his residency status or his right to vote in Maine, because voting is not tied to compliance with motor vehicle laws.</p>

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<p>That’s quite an argument. Basically, “he’s doing it, he hasn’t been caught, so it must not be a crime.”</p>

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<p>It’s also about what kind of requirements students face when they change their state of legal residence to the state where they are going to school.</p>

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<p>Yup, you’re absolutely right about all of that. It certainly is legal for him to vote in Maine.</p>

<p>It’s just not legal for him to drive in Maine on a New York license or use his car in Maine with a New York registration.</p>

<p>Ask yourself this question:</p>

<p>“As a Maine resident, is my son required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within 30 days of becoming a Maine resident?”</p>

<p>What’s your answer?</p>

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<p>“As a Maine resident, is my son required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within 30 days of becoming a Maine resident?”</p>

<p>What’s your answer? </p>

<p>No, not for the purpose of voting. It is his right, under the law, to vote where he goes to school - which is why the SoS did not prosecute ANY of the OOS students who did not change their OOS licenses and car registrations to Maine. </p>

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<p>For the purpose of driving - As a Maine resident, is your son required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within 30 days of becoming a Maine resident?</p>

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<p>“For the purpose of driving - As a Maine resident, is your son required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within 30 days of becoming a Maine resident?”</p>

<p>No. It is not illegal for him to drive in Maine with an OOS driver’s license. </p>

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<p>How do you square that position with the law that I pasted into post #101, which says that “Within 30 days of becoming a resident of this State, a person shall apply to obtain a license in accordance with section 1301” and that failing to comply with this requirement and driving in Maine if the person has been a resident of Maine for at least 90 days is a class E crime?</p>

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<p>^ Because it is not a requirement for establishing residency to be eligible vote in Maine. He is a “resident” of Maine for the sole purpose of exercising his right, under the Constitution, to vote where he goes to school. </p>

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<p>I told you earlier that you can’t establish legal residency for the single purpose of voting. You can only be a legal resident of one state at a time, and you assume all of the rights and responsibilities of whatever state you are a legal resident of. Please, if you have evidence to the contrary, provide a link.</p>

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<p>A student can. They have the right to vote where they go to school. </p>

<p>They do not assume all the rights of whatever state they are legal residents of for the sole purpose of voting - which is why they cannot claim instate residency for tuition. </p>

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<p>Although a student does have the right to vote where they go to school, a student cannot be a legal resident of two states at the same time.</p>

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<p>Once again, eligibility for in-state tuition is not solely dependent on residency status. Please support your position with something other than opinion.</p>

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<p>“Once again, eligibility for in-state tuition is not solely dependent on residency status. Please support your position with something other than opinion.”</p>

<p>Once again, eligibility to vote in Maine is not dependent on having a Maine driver’s license or car registration. You can try to spin it any way you want but the fact is, under the law my son is a legal resident in Maine for the purpose of voting. All those OOS students who voted in Maine and refused to change their licenses after being threatened - where not charged with any crime - under the motor vehicle laws or otherwise - because they did not break any laws. Even your SoS admitted that. </p>

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<p>Yes, I agree. I have never disputed this. I don’t know why you keep emphasizing this. It is not a matter of dispute between us.</p>

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<p>Not just for the purpose of voting. And if you disagree, please prodice more than just your opinion.</p>

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<p>I don’t know anything about those students on that list. Maybe it turns out they all had Maine licenses (if there was even any kind of real investigation done). I gave you my opinion on why the matter was not pursued. Not being charged with a crime is not proof certain that no crime was committed. This should be obvious to you.</p>

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<p>“I don’t know anything about those students on that list. Maybe it turns out they all had Maine licenses (if there was even any kind of real investigation done). I gave you my opinion on why the matter was not pursued. Not being charged with a crime is not proof certain that no crime was committed. This should be obvious to you.”</p>

<p>No they did not have Maine licenses which is why they were singled out to be investigated and threatened because of that. The SoS said they did not break any laws. </p>

<p>The proof is that my son registered and has voted in Maine since 2011 while still having a NYS license and driving in Maine. </p>

<p>Please provide proof of a student registered to vote in Maine with an out of state license/car registration being prosecuted for violation of that motor vehicle law. </p>

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<p>emily:</p>

<p>if you’d like to pm your son’s address to middlid, I’m sure he can pass it onto the local authorities, who will ticket your son’s care within ~72 hours. He can pay the fine – and swap out his plates – or have his day in court (and risk further prosecution.) :smile: </p>

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<p>Please show me where it says that any student on that list was found to a) have registered to vote in Maine while b) continuing to hold an out-of-state license, and c) Charlie Summers said that a law was not broken.</p>

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<p>This is proof only that your son has not been caught violating Maine motor vehicle laws. (Notice I didn’t say Maine election laws.)</p>

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<p>Nope - not my job. Even if I wanted to, that’s not something easily done within a few minutes.</p>

<p>In an earlier post, I provided language from a Maine government web site that said the following:</p>

<p>*Consequences of Declaring Your Voting Residence (by Registering to Vote) in Maine</p>

<p>You should be aware that if you register to vote in Maine, you will be deemed to have declared residency in Maine, which may have consequences for compliance with other Maine laws, including the motor vehicle laws and tax laws. If you drive a car in Maine, you are required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within thirty days of establishing residency here. Driving without a Maine license more than ninety days after you have established residency in the state is a crime under Maine law. If you are a resident of Maine and own a vehicle here, state law also requires you to register that vehicle in Maine within thirty days of establishing residency. By declaring Maine as your voting residence, you may be treated as a resident of Maine for income tax purposes and be subject to Maine income tax.*</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm”>http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Based on this language, your son is in violation of Maine law. Did Maine get it wrong here? Are you going to claim they aren’t allowed to do this?</p>