OOS students in Wisconsin universities may have trouble voting

[MiddKid86]

<p>

No. The State has carved out a specific class (OOS students) who are not permanent residents of their state. One cannot hold residencies in two states (you said so yourself) thus - OOS students are not considered residents of the state where they go to school. They hold the residency of the state where their parents reside. It does not matter what reason the State has for carving out a specific class but that distinction, in and of itself, is the determining factor.

</p>

<p>The distinction you speak of is only for the purposes of determining tuition status, and if a student moves to Maine from out of state to go to school and subsequently registers to vote in Maine, they become a legal resident of Maine (a “permanent resident” in your vernacular), but a legal resident without in-state tuition benefits because of the rules of the University of Maine System and the student’s reason for coming to Maine. You are agreeing with me that “one cannot hold residencies in two states” - you said it yourself above - and yet you continue to argue that your son can be a Maine resident for voting purposes but not for anything else, that he is still a “permanent resident” of New York because he has a New York driver’s license and a car registered in New York.</p>

<p>Maybe you could address the language in italics, especially in bold, in post #137 and explain why this does not apply to your son. Is there a special exception for students who have come to Maine from out of state? Surely if there is it must be in writing somewhere, relatively easily found on the internet. I have backed up my opinions with easily verifiable and compelling evidence, and yet you have nothing but your opinion.</p>

[emilybee]

<p>Just like OOS students who don’t have a DL or car at school and are considered permanent residents of the state their parents reside in - so are students who have OOS DL & cars. The State considers OOS students to hold the residency where their parents live. They have the right to vote where they go to school because SCOTUS says they have the right to vote where they go to school. </p>

<p>The reason there is an exception for OOS Students is because the State has carved out that exception for OOS as when it comes to residency. </p>

<p>You cannot hold residency in two states. You said so yourself and the State has declared that OOS students are residents of the state where their parents live. </p>

<p>“one cannot hold residencies in two states” - you said it yourself above - and yet you continue to argue that your son can be a Maine resident for voting purposes but not for anything else, that he is still a “permanent resident” of New York because he has a New York driver’s license and a car registered in New York. </p>

<p>No, he is a permanent resident of New York because that is where his parents live and the State of Maine (and every other state) considers him to be a permanent resident of New York State because they have declared OOS students hold the residency where their parents live. </p>

<p>The reason they can vote where they go to school is because SCOTUS ruled they can regardless of where their permanent residence is. </p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@MiddKid86

So how is that college student WITHOUT A CAR going to get to the voter registration location?

</p>

<p>Walk, bicycle, or take public transportation. Maine has many locations where voter registration forms can be gotten.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/voterguide.html”>http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/voterguide.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

@Maine

Where do I go to register?</p>

<p>You can register to vote at your town office or city hall, through any Motor Vehicle branch office, in most state & federal social service agencies, or at voter registration drives.</p>

<p>Completed voter registration cards may be hand delivered or mailed to your town office or city hall, or sent to the Secretary of State’s Office in Augusta.

</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@emilybee

You cannot hold residency in two states. You said so yourself and the State has declared that OOS students are residents of the state where their parents live.

</p>

<p>However, a state may (and usually does) have different definitions of residency for different purposes. Residency for driver’s license purposes tends to be broadly defined (since states want people living and driving there to hold that state’s license, even though such laws are widely disobeyed and rarely enforced), while residency for in-state tuition tends to have a much higher threshold to get.</p>

[barrons]

<p>“There are exceptions for out-of-state students who have not declared legal residency in the state in which they are attending school. Are you claiming that at least 26 states have exceptions that allow legal residents who are students in the state to retain driver’s licenses from other states, and keep cars that are registered in other states with them at school? Please provide a link that references this kind of exception for one such state.”</p>

<p>Again, voting rights are a federal issue and override state laws in many cases.</p>

<p>See CA</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/reg_hdbk_pdf/ch12_nonresident_vehicles.pdf”>https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/reg_hdbk_pdf/ch12_nonresident_vehicles.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Full-time college students (enrolled in at least 9 credit hours per semester) with a valid vehicle registration and a driver’s license from their home state are not required to obtain Kansas registration.</p>

<p>Any full-time college student or member of the armed services who is temporarily maintaining an abode in Kentucky does not need to register his or her vehicle while in school or stationed in Kentucky if he or she maintains residency in his or her home state.</p>

<p>Exempt from this are active-duty members of the US Armed Forces and full-time students from another state attending a Texas college or university.</p>

<p>See for overriding laws and court cases.</p>

<p><a href=“Policy Brief on Student Voting | Brennan Center for Justice”>http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/policy-brief-student-voting&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[MiddKid86]

<p>

Just like OOS students who don’t have a DL or car at school and are considered permanent residents of the state their parents reside in - so are students who have OOS DL & cars.

</p>

<p>Correct - as long as they don’t do something to change that status, like register to vote where they are going to school.</p>

<p>

The State considers OOS students to hold the residency where their parents live.

</p>

<p>Unless and until the student does something to change that, like register to vote where they are going to school.</p>

<p>

They have the right to vote where they go to school because SCOTUS says they have the right to vote where they go to school.

</p>

<p>No, SCOTUS said that students have a right to be legal residents of the state where they are going to school; status as a legal resident then gives one the right to vote in that state.</p>

<p>

The reason there is an exception for OOS Students is because the State has carved out that exception for OOS as when it comes to residency.

</p>

<p>Are you talking about an exception carved out to allow out-of-state students to vote, without becoming “full” or legal residents of the state? Prove it. Show me. (You won’t be able to, so I don’t expect you to try.)</p>

<p>

You cannot hold residency in two states. You said so yourself and the State has declared that OOS students are residents of the state where their parents live.

</p>

<p>And yet you are claiming that your son is a resident of Maine for the “purpose of voting” and a resident of New York for everything else. How does that work, if you cannot hold residency in two states at the same time?</p>

<p>

No, he is a permanent resident of New York because that is where his parents live and the State of Maine (and every other state) considers him to be a permanent resident of New York State because they have declared OOS students hold the residency where their parents live.

</p>

<p>If he’s a resident of New York, than why is he voting in Maine? Once again:</p>

<p>*Consequences of Declaring Your Voting Residence (by Registering to Vote) in Maine</p>

<p>You should be aware that if you register to vote in Maine, you will be deemed to have declared residency in Maine, which may have consequences for compliance with other Maine laws, including the motor vehicle laws and tax laws. If you drive a car in Maine, you are required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within thirty days of establishing residency here. Driving without a Maine license more than ninety days after you have established residency in the state is a crime under Maine law. If you are a resident of Maine and own a vehicle here, state law also requires you to register that vehicle in Maine within thirty days of establishing residency. By declaring Maine as your voting residence, you may be treated as a resident of Maine for income tax purposes and be subject to Maine income tax.*</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm”>http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I’ve asked you why the above laws don’t apply to your son, and you don’t have an answer.</p>

<p>

The reason they can vote where they go to school is because SCOTUS ruled they can regardless of where their permanent residence is.

</p>

<p>No. You can only vote in the state where you are a legal resident, which is a term that you are using interchangeably with permanent resident.</p>

[MiddKid86]

<p>

Again, voting rights are a federal issue and override state laws in many cases.

</p>

<p>Voting procedures are a matter of state law, as long as they don’t conflict with federal voting rights.</p>

<p>

Full-time college students (enrolled in at least 9 credit hours per semester) with a valid vehicle registration and a driver’s license from their home state are not required to obtain Kansas registration.

</p>

<p>Sure, if the full-time student hasn’t registered to vote in Kansas and thus become a legal resident of Kansas. I imagine that most states have rules like this for students from out of state who have not become residents of the states where they moved to go to school.</p>

<p>Members of the armed forces on active duty are a whole different matter, and probably best left to a different discussion.</p>

[emilybee]

<p>All OOS students in Maine are considered permanent residents of the state where their parents reside. Period. End of story. You can parse it anyway which makes you feel good, but the State of Maine has declared that my son is a resident of New York, not Maine He can register and vote in Maine because SCOTUS has ruled students can vote where they go to school. </p>

<p>Take it up with the State of Maine if you want to make it so OOS students are deemed residents of Maine or challenge the law under which students are permitted to vote where the go to school when they hold permanent residency in other states. </p>

<p>If you want your kids to get DL and register their cars wherever they go to school - go ahead. I don’t care what you do. </p>

[MiddKid86]

<p>

All OOS students in Maine are considered permanent residents of the state where their parents reside. Period. End of story. You can parse it anyway which makes you feel good, but the State of Maine has declared that my son is a resident of New York, not Maine

</p>

<p>What the state of Maine has declared is that if your son from New York comes to Maine, for whatever reason, and registers to vote, he becomes a Maine resident subject to Maine motor vehicle laws, and he is no longer considered a “permanent” or legal resident of New York. Here it is in black and white, with a link for you to verify on your own:</p>

<p>*Consequences of Declaring Your Voting Residence (by Registering to Vote) in Maine</p>

<p>You should be aware that if you register to vote in Maine, you will be deemed to have declared residency in Maine, which may have consequences for compliance with other Maine laws, including the motor vehicle laws and tax laws. If you drive a car in Maine, you are required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within thirty days of establishing residency here. Driving without a Maine license more than ninety days after you have established residency in the state is a crime under Maine law. If you are a resident of Maine and own a vehicle here, state law also requires you to register that vehicle in Maine within thirty days of establishing residency. By declaring Maine as your voting residence, you may be treated as a resident of Maine for income tax purposes and be subject to Maine income tax.*</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm”>http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Sticking your head in the sand and not reading this will not make it go away.</p>

<p>

He can register and vote in Maine because SCOTUS has ruled students can vote where they go to school.

</p>

<p>Absolutely, and by registering to vote in Maine your son became a legal resident of Maine. There is no exception “carved out” for out-of-state students. If there was you would have shown it to me by now, but it does not exist.</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>Since I live in Maine, I am interested in this, so I just emailed the state to see what they say. I included the section of law quoted in post #148, then emilybee’s statement (with editorial comments deleted) in post #147. I will let you know if I get a response.</p>

[MiddKid86]

<p>^^^
Good idea, MaineLonghorn. To whom did you send your inquiry? Just curious.</p>

<p>I’m off to an island in New Hampshire for the weekend that has no internet, so I’ll have to wait until I get back to see if you received a response on a Friday afternoon. (I’m betting against it, but you never know.)</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>^Bureau of Motor Vehicles</p>

<p>Yeah, good point, they’re probably gone by now!</p>

<p>Although I have to say - for one of my son’s SIX driving exam appointments, he ran into a huge traffic jam due to an auto accident involving fatalities. He called the BMV, and the examiner said, “Oh, that’s OK! Drive safely, and I will wait for you.” This was at 3:30 on a Friday afternoon! I was impressed. It turns out the guy could have gone home, but he waited around almost an extra hour for my son to show up.</p>

[barrons]

<p>“Voting procedures are a matter of state law, as long as they don’t conflict with federal voting rights.”</p>

<p>And there you have it. These rules have been adjudicated as violating voting rights in several cases at Fed level… States may continue to try to violate that but will likely lose if taken to court. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-virginia”>http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-virginia&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As to Maine-an OOS student may change to vote in Maine based on dorm residence. If you have a car and or drive you need to get a Maine DL and registration. But that is after you register to vote…</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-maine”>http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-maine&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[barrons]

<p>For general rules</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-faq#residency”>http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-faq#residency&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[OHMomof2]

<p>Interesting issue.</p>

<p>

Q: I’ve heard that if I register to vote in my college community I’ll have to change my driver’s license and motor vehicle registration? Is this true?
A: With very few exceptions, registering to vote will have no impact on whether you will have to change your driver’s license and motor vehicle registration. If you have questions about your obligations to update your driver’s license and motor vehicle registration while attending school, you may contact the state’s Department of Motor Vehicles

<a href=“http://fairelectionsnetwork.com/webfm_send/62”>http://fairelectionsnetwork.com/webfm_send/62&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>IDK if Maine is one of the “very few exceptions”.</p>

[OHMomof2]

<p>From <a href=“http://mainecampus.com/2011/10/16/states-voting-letter-called-complete-intimidation/”>http://mainecampus.com/2011/10/16/states-voting-letter-called-complete-intimidation/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

Maine election law requires voters to establish residency in Maine, be at least 18 years old, and be registered in the town or city of their residency. Vehicle registration does not appear in the section of Maine statutes dealing with elections.

</p>

[emilybee]

<p>The three requirements are for voting in Maine:</p>

<ol>
<li>You need to be 18 years or older.</li>
<li>You need to be a United States citizen.</li>
<li>And you need to call Maine your home. </li>
</ol>

<p>That’s it. Live in Maine. Be 18 years or older and a citizen of the United States.</p>

<p>Who do I mean when I say everyone can vote? I mean students can vote. Students paying in-state tuition. Students paying out-of-state tuition. Students paying no tuition. </p>

<p>But what do you need to bring?</p>

<p>Nothing. You do not need to bring anything with you to vote. Maine doesn’t have a voter ID law. Now, of course, it’s a good idea to bring along something that has your name, picture and address on it. It will make it easier for you and the clerk. A driver’s license – either from Maine or out of state – will do. A passport. A student ID. If you’re registering to vote for the first time, it’s also a good idea to bring something that has your address on it like a bill.</p>

<p><a href=“Updated: What You Need to Know to Vote in Maine | ACLU of Maine”>Updated: What You Need to Know to Vote in Maine | ACLU of Maine;

[Madison85]

<p>PSA Video in Wisconsin reminding people to obtain a Voter ID (featuring Chad Vader - Darth Vader’s little known grocery store employee brother):</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.channel3000.com/news/politics/chad-vader-promotes-voter-id/28388544”>http://www.channel3000.com/news/politics/chad-vader-promotes-voter-id/28388544&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(For those of you not familiar with Chad Vader: <a href=“Chad Vader : Day Shift Manager - A Galaxy Not So Far Away : S1 Ep1 - YouTube”>Chad Vader : Day Shift Manager - A Galaxy Not So Far Away : S1 Ep1 - YouTube)</p>

[MiddKid86]

<p>

“Voting procedures are a matter of state law, as long as they don’t conflict with federal voting rights.”</p>

<p>And there you have it. These rules have been adjudicated as violating voting rights in several cases at Fed level… States may continue to try to violate that but will likely lose if taken to court.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-virginia[/quote]”>http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-virginia

</a></p>

<p>Uhh… what rules?</p>

<p>

As to Maine-an OOS student may change to vote in Maine based on dorm residence. If you have a car and or drive you need to get a Maine DL and registration. But that is after you register to vote…</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-maine[/quote]”>http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/student-voting-guide-maine

</a></p>

<p>Yes, this is what I have been saying. From the Maine section of the Brennan Center for Justice Student Voting Guide (linked above):</p>

<p>You should be aware that if you register to vote in Maine, you will be deemed to have declared residency in Maine, which has consequences for drivers in particular. Maine residents who drive in Maine must obtain a Maine driver’s license within thirty days of establishing residency.[11] Driving without a Maine license more than ninety days after you have established residency in the state is a crime.[12]</p>

[bluebayou]

<p>

[quote]
Yes, this is what I have been saying. From the Maine section of the Brennan Center for Justice Student Voting Guide (linked above):</p>

<p>You should be aware that if you register to vote in Maine, you will be deemed to have declared residency in Maine, which has consequences for drivers in particular. Maine residents who drive in Maine must obtain a Maine driver’s license within thirty days of establishing residency.[11] Driving without a Maine license more than ninety days after you have established residency in the state is a crime.[12][/quote]</p>

<p>Point, set, match. </p>