Opinions on son's list

Parents Forum
1

<p>Our family needs help with son’s college list. Basically, we need opinions if we have classified Reach/Match/Safety correctly. He has whittled down the list from 45 to 18 schools. He will further reduce based upon actual SAT/ACT. By May, would like to whittle this down to 9 schools.</p>

<p>He is entering 11th grade.
He has not taken SAT or ACT for college purposes yet. He took SAT in 7th grade for gifted program purposes.
10th grade PSAT = 208 (61M/72CR/75W). He is studying to bring up Math. He will need 221+ for hopes of National Merit. Attends a NJ school
Anticipated SAT = +2100/1360 to 1450 M/CR based upon practice test
7th & 8th grade = Math honors & Latin which will show on transcript
9th grade = most difficult schedule in his school:1 Dual College course, 2 honors classes, 6 academic classes total.
10th grade = 1 AP (Govt scored 4), 5 honors, 1 regular
11th grade = APUSH, AP English Lang, AP Calc AB, Mechanical Engineering (lab science), Latin IV honors, Art (if he completes enough will submit as AP), required elective</p>

<p>School is a private unknown prep school which does not rank. School offers 9 APs on a 2 year rotation. He’ll take at least 6 by graduation. School does not have grade inflation.</p>

<p>GPA = 3.76 UW/4.06 W – we don’t expect this to change by more than +/-.02</p>

<p>Major is undecided. Leaning towards Cognitive Science because he likes the interdisciplinary nature of the field. Slight interest in Engineering. If he decides to go Engineering, then that alone will decide his final list. Even if he chooses Engineering he does not want a tech school.</p>

<p>Location = He doesn’t want any colder than his current climate (Mid-Atlantic, Philly region) unless school is "perfect." Parents want either 6 hour driving radius or close to an airport for easier commute.</p>

<p>ECs = very focused with much leadership. Includes sport, music and communitry service.</p>

<p>Finances = Based upon calculators we anticipate EFC to be $25k range. Schools with merit or that meet need is a focus as we would like to stay at EFC.</p>

<p>He is laid back and moves in various circles. He has a “hipster” attitude, but loves to eat meat and would not do well in a large vegan environment.</p>

<p>Wants co-ed with at least 35% male.</p>

<p>Wants small discussion based classes, but the school itself may be large.</p>

<p>He has inattentive ADHD. He takes a long time to complete tests/assignments. Has not received extended time on SAT/SAT II/PSAT/AP.</p>

<p>Prefers at least 25% of school scoring 1200+ on M/CR SAT. Many of our state schools do not meet this.</p>

<p>List:</p>

<p>Safety:
Susquehanna
UNC Ashville
College of Charleston
Alabama
Pitt (IS)
Ursinus</p>

<p>Match:
Trinity U (TX)
Occidental</p>

<p>High Match
Connecticut College
Colorado College
Oberlin</p>

<p>Reach
Pitzer
Tulane
USC</p>

<p>High Reach
Haverford
Pomona
Rice
Brown (thrown in because Dad wants him to apply to an Ivy - fully expect son to cut it by app time)</p>

2

<p>I’m not sure why you need a reduced list, at this stage; let him take his SATs or ACTs, see how junior year goes, visit a few schools in each range and in each genre (LAC, small, large, urban, rural, etc.), because you’re all over the map now, and that’s a good thing. If you were at the same place next year, then you’d be stressed, but for now, I think he should still be exploring options. </p>

<p>And I don’t know of any school with “a large vegan environment,” so he’s safe there. I’m pretty sure that most schools still have lots of carnivores :)</p>

3

<p>I agree spend the time next year figuring out the urban/rural, big/small and region equation along with having a GPA that will be close to what he will be applying with along with some real standardized test scores and you’ll be in good shape next spring. Right now you have big/small, rural/urban and every region of the country.</p>

4

<p>It isn’t so much about reducing the list at this stage as it is about making sure we are classifying schools properly.</p>

<p>For a 3.76UW/4.06 W, SAT 2100/1400 kid are we classifying correctly?</p>

5

<p>Is Tulane really a reach? I think he’d get in but won’t get tons of merit aid perhaps.</p>

<p>I agree that you’re in a good place right now, and your timeline is good and gives you lots of time to whittle it down. </p>

<p>This might be my cc goggles talking, but is that math PSAT score too low for engineering, especially at some of the reach schools? Well, I guess that’s why they call them reaches …</p>

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<p>I think that you are on the right track as far as classification. But some of these do not have engineering. How about substituting Bucknell for one of your high matches that does not have engineering?</p>

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<p>Longhaul- I think the wild card is “unknown” school. If by unknown, you mean that kids mostly apply to your state’s schools and a few neighboring schools, than I think your list is fine- and that you should resist doing more whittling down until you see actual SAT scores. If there is actually historical data about how kids like your son have fared with some of these schools, than that will be a lot more predictive than what a bunch of strangers think on the internet.</p>

<p>At my kids school (private, religious) that GPA would be outstanding. My kids scores all went up substantially from PSAT’s to SAT time (no class, I bought a book on Amazon and they all did a couple of practice tests) although they were mathier than your son appears to be.</p>

<p>So you may be able to dump a lot of the safeties as being way too safe, and some of the high matches become actual matches, etc.</p>

<p>I would be more concerned with how your son will fare with a more demanding workload with his ADHD. How are his organizational skills? Is he able to shut the door to his room and work in a focused way or is he checking email every 10 minutes?</p>

8

<p>No need to reduce the list. Just concentrate on finding the safety that he likes, and that you can afford. After that, it’s all gravy. </p>

<p>Is Pitt a safety? (I don’t know what the stats say.) I think it is a really fine school, and a great city for school. Don’t know about small classes, though.</p>

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<p>I would add that if he does go engineering, look more closely at your state schools. Generally the people in his engineering classes will have the higher SAT scores that he desires.</p>

10

<p>Our S’s are very similar. From hipster attitude, all the way to the 208 his 10th grade PSAT. And I do think he’ll probably make the NM cutoff for semifinalist, particularly if he studies for the math section. It’s bound to go up some on it’s own without studying (S’s score was 228 in 11th). He did make NMF and I really think that’s where yours is heading. Tulane, USC, Alabama make sense. U of Richmond and Denison also offer full tuition rides to NMF (son almost accepted DU, but gave up the offer for UVa).</p>

<p>Your son’s list will change over the next year. He will cross off some schools because he doesn’t like their name. He will cross off some after visiting, because it was “too creepy”, as my son said about Duke after visiting on an unfortunately rainy day (with the gothic architecture, he had a point). Focus on the visits for now, and then after you get the PSAT scores, you’ll be adding schools/deleting schools again.</p>

11

<p>Blossom
By “unknown” private prep high school I mean it is not Lawrenceville or some of the other bigger name prep schools in the area. Very small school with about 20-25 per grade. No Naviance. The level of classes varies widely so that SAT and college choices are all over. For the last 5 years at least 1 grad/year went Ivy or Military Academy. Most choose PA/NJ schools. This means my kid will be in unknown territory for many of the schools he likes. As far as the ADHD, he is working on the organizational skills with an ADHD coach. Slow, but making progress. He is also learning that he can’t burn the candle at both ends. Because of his ADHD, Colorado College really appeals to him. He wouldn’t need to worry about balancing multiple classes and shifting focus.</p>

<p>YDS - Yes, math grade is low, but not too low for some engineering programs. He may not head that way - He’s is a liberal arts kid at heart, but he has not totally ruled out engineering yet. That is why he wants some schools with engineering on the list.</p>

<p>Math - He is very good at math but cannot get thru the standardized testing for math within the time constraints. I think if he could finish the math sections timely he’d raise his scores. That is what he is working on.</p>

<p>mini - Pitt is a safety admit and affordable for us. Class size is a big minus for him, but he understands the need for financial safeties.</p>

<p>MizzBee - Pitt would be the only state school with Engineering that he’d consider. Penn State has great engineering, but I think too many distractions and red tape for him. Temple is too close to home. The other state schools do not have engineering.</p>

<p>I don’t care how much his list changes over the next year. I just don’t want him to focus too much on schools that will be reaches. I’m trying to keep him grounded while at the same time I don’t want to focus too low.</p>

12

<p>Longhaul: just wanted to say congrats to getting the list cut to 18! You and your S are in a good place for the beginning of junior year; you’re already farther ahead in the thought process than most rising seniors :)</p>

<p>D2 has 8 of those schools on her list…I’ll be looking forward to hearing what you think as the year goes by.</p>

13

<p>I just wanted to throw in that I think that the ACT could be easier for an inattentive ADHD kid - it is shorter and there is less switching from topic to topic, section to section.<br>
Consider giving the ACT a try.</p>

14

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</p>

<p>Sounds like a really great kid. And he’s clearly a very good student. Any of those schools – including Brown – would be fortunate to get him. But isn’t Carnegie Mellon really good in cognitive science and interdisciplinary cool majors? We have never looked at it closely, but several friends’ kids who sound like your son went there and thrived.</p>

15

<p>You seem to be in a great place. I’m in the same place with my D2, with around the same GPA though she doesn’t have your son’s 10th grade PSAT. We live near Boston.</p>

<p>My view at this time is to try use the time wisely to focus on carefully selecting colleges to visit that will help her make the following decisions:</p>

<p>Arts & Science vs. Engineering
LAC vs. research university
urban/suburban/rural
Big/medium/small</p>

<p>6.5 hour nonstop flight to west coast vs. 7 hour drive to a rural school in PA driving behind local yokel doing 20MPH on a two-lane road, vs. a few stops on the commuter rail. </p>

<p>and finally, ED vs. RD knowing that if she can find a clear favorite, the ED could be a huge admissions boost. </p>

<p>By the end of the summer, she’ll have visited 4 research universities, which we visited or plan to visit on the way to and on the way home from her summer program at one of them. We also stopped for lunch at a small rural LAC on the way though the campus was pretty deserted. That may have been a mistake because she was really turned off by being in the middle of nowhere. </p>

<p>I will try to take her to a New England LAC’s open house on Veterans Day, have her visit some Boston area colleges during Feb. break, blizzards not withstanding. She’ll take the SAT in January. </p>

<p>At that point, I’m hoping she’ll have a better sense of what to focus on so that she can intelligently choose colleges to visit during April break and the Fall when school is in session. </p>

<p>My hope is that as her prospects become clearer, we can focus the April or May visits and the Fall 2012 visits so that she can potentially choose a school ED if possible. If she doesn’t have a strong preference she won’t apply ED, but there is no way to get that strong preference unless you explore all of your serious options in time.</p>

16

<p>A few thoughts:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I’m not a total expert on this, but I think you have some mix-ups there. I think Colorado College and Oberlin are significantly more selective than Pitzer (especially for a boy) or Tulane. They would be reaches without some improvement in SAT scores above the first PSAT.</p></li>
<li><p>The whole engineering question is a red herring. Most places require that someone apply to their engineering school. If, by the fall of 12th grade, he wants to study engineering, or he wants the option to decide to study engineering that spring, he’ll apply to a few engineering schools, or all engineering schools. If he’s not committed to engineering at that point, it doesn’t matter whether anyplace else he applies has engineering, because he would still be in the position of having to transfer in to engineering down the road, and probably take an extra year. He can go to a non-engineering school, decide he really wants to be an engineer, major in chemistry or physics, and get his engineering training in a master’s program, or do a 3-2 degree – it’s really not much different than transferring within a school.</p></li>
<li><p>You have an awful lot of schools on that list that don’t meet some, or all, of the criteria you set forth. I’m not saying they are the right criteria, but if you really care about them you could get that list down to 12 or 13 just by listening to yourself. Alabama may be a great choice, but as far as I can tell it meets none of your criteria, except perhaps for merit aid availability. UNC Asheville?</p></li>
<li><p>In terms of EFC, when you are running the calculators are you taking account of savings and assets (the way many of the schools on your list will)? If yes, or if it doesn’t matter, fine. If no, then a lot of those schools are not going to be financially feasible, because they don’t award merit aid and will come up with a higher EFC for you. At others, your son won’t be in merit aid territory without a meaningful SAT bump – at which point your list will likely change significantly.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>LH: I just saw what you said about Engineering & state schools (i.e. Pitt.) I’m pretty sure that Alabama has a good Engineering dept. & they’re in the middle of building 4 impressive new Science & Engineering buildings. </p>

<p>This subject area is not my forte though as I have humanities kids…</p>

18

<p>Agreeing with RobD that Alabama does belong on the list – assuming that the test scores come out as predicted, significant merit aid is assured. As RobD mentioned, Alabama has made a significant commitment to Engineering and has had impressive achievements in science, including being one of only five schools in the nation with the maximum number of Goldwater Scholars this year. Other items on your list: the winter is definitely warmer than the mid-Atlantic region, more than 25% per cent of the 2010 entering class scored above 600 on SAT (2010 common data set shows 32% with above a 600 on CR and 31% with above a 600 on M), 46% of 2010 entering class was male, there are fabulous leadership opportunities in the Honors College beginning with Alabama Action and Outdoor Action immediately prior to Freshman year, and classes tend to be small – particularly through the Honors College (my daughter’s largest freshman class will have 54 students, her other classes have fewer than 20). Other factors that make Alabama a good choice – it has one of the most liberal AP credit policies in the country and provides numerous opportunities to graduate with BOTH a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree in FOUR years covered by the Presidential scholarship. Check out some of these opportunities and head on over to the Alabama board if you have questions.</p>

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<p>Completely agree with JHS’s point #1. D1 had similar stats to your S’s expected (same SAT, NMF, lower GPA) and she was accepted to Tulane with 1/2 tuition scholarship. D2 is very interested in Pitzer, her stats are similar to your S and we are considering it a match - no guarantee given their 25% acceptance rate, but a match based on stats and the kind of student they seem to be looking for. If you know something we don’t that makes them a reach, please let me know!!</p>

20

<p>PRJ & JHS
This is the type of feedback we need.</p>

<p>Pitzer we were considering a reach due to the 20% acceptance rates (I think he got that from US News). </p>

<p>Sewhappy
He ruled out Carnegie Melon because the small sample of folks (um, 4 families) we know whose kids have gotten in had the EFC calculated higher than other schools. Even at that, he’ll be visiting it at some point this year because he figures he might as well since he is going to see Pitt.</p>

<p>Alabama is certainly only on the list because of the generous guaranteed merit and good things I’ve heard about the Honors Colleges. Crossing fingers they merit doesn’t change next year. </p>

<p>UNC Ashville - um, outside from an affordable LAC, I don’t know why it is on the list. </p>

<p>Thanks for the EFC reminder to include savings/assets. I did remember to do that.</p>

<p>Going to see 3 urban schools in August that have “green lawns.” To date, son’s only point of reference for urban schools are Temple & Drexel which do not appeal to him. If he doesn’t like these next 3 urban schools then he can safely scratch off all urban.</p>

<p>MWM - He will give the ACT a try. Just waiting for his school to apply for extended time for him. Not sure if he’ll get it, but school encouraged him to apply and see before signing up.</p>

<p>All your opinions are very helpful! His ADD coach has him shooting too high. Some classmates and a teacher have wonderful suggestions for him, but without regard to finances. He is kid #1 of 3; finances are a priority for our family.</p>