Options for Indian students in Germany, Switzerland, France, similar countries

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>Hello everybody,</p>

<p>I'd commented on this elsewhere, but some former students of mine from India and China suggested that I put this in the main thread so that people in general would be aware of it- I know many focus their hopes as international students on the US, Canada or Australia only, but many of the best opportunities for Indian students are arising in less well-known destinations like Germany, France, Belgium and similar countries. I'm a US-based educator, and participated in a conference of international students held recently. The conference was held because of major changes in the outlook for global study, partly as it's becoming more difficult and much more expensive to study in the US due to our economic difficulties recently. The students at the conference came from China, India, Japan, Korea, Russia, the Philippines, Thailand, Japan, Vietnam and other countries, and they had gone to school not only in the US or Canada but all over Europe, a few in East Asia or South America. </p>

<p>The common consensus among the large group is that Germany is becoming the best place for international students from India, China and other Asian countries, with some German universities even recruiting students from these countries. The students all agreed that the education is not only much less expensive than other countries (esp. here in the US) but also world-class, with unrivaled exposure to technology, high-quality arts and sciences, good teaching, opportunities for creative and entrepreneurial work as well as great internships in many fields. The group also gave very positive feedback about attending schools in Switzerland, France, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, even a few places in central cities of Italy and Spain that have been less affected by the economic issues in the rest of those countries. Despite the economic crisis in Southern Europe (as well as in Ireland and Britain), the core of north-center lying Europe and Scandinavia is quite strong. It's not easy to gain admission of course and you'll have to be a strong student, as even native Germans and other Europeans have to pass a tough "Abitur" test, but if you're bright and hard-working, this may be a better option than the ones commonly sought out in other countries.</p>

<p>You'll have to learn German of course, but to my surprise, most of the conference students said it wasn't too tough when they were motivated. Apparently German has similar grammar in many ways to Indian languages like Tamil, Gujarati and Hindi as well as to Chinese and Korean for example (can't speak to this personally but it was confirmed by the students there). And if you learn just basic German in India, many became fluent once they got to Germany or surrounding countries itself, as there are many public and private institutions to help. Also German is becoming the most important language in Europe especially for tech, business and manufacturing, so it's easier to pick up the language even outside of Germany, and several students either worked in German-speaking companies in eastern Europe or even attended German classes at universities there (especially in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Latvia if I'm remembering the slide presentation right). Several students from Karnataka state, Tamil Nadu, Gujarat and Maharashtra if I'm remembering the states right, said that there are Goethe Institutes in each state (like the Alliance Francaise for French, Confucius Institutes for Chinese or the Instituto Cervantes for Spanish) that help in quickly learning German, and they all used them to help boost their skills.</p>

<p>Obviously it can help to learn French, Italian or especially Spanish too (or even Dutch or Swedish depending on where you go), if you're good with languages, though German seems to be the one to focus on all over Europe. Several students from India, China and Sri Lanka even improved their German skills fast by writing technical and scientific papers in German, which is also a great addition on a CV, so there are all kinds of clever and effective ways to do it. The Indian students in our group went to many places such as the Universities of Bremen, Tubingen, Hamburg, Rostock and Karlsruhe, as well as to German-language classes in nearby Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic as mentioned above.</p>

<p>Anyway good luck to everyone out there in your global study aspirations!</p>

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<p>As much as I’d love to got to the Berlin Institute of Technology, or ETHZ or UniGe, I can’t; the living costs are ridiculously high, and unlike the States, the universities don’t subsidize those.</p>

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<p>Hi BreadMonster,</p>

<p>Good point you bring up about the living expenses in the surrounding cities, thanks for mentioning it as it’s worth considering. When it comes to subsidizing the living costs, most universities in the United States don’t do that anymore, either, due to the severity of our economic downturn and structural factors. In fact, one of the biggest complaints of students at the international conference (and also from my own American students!) is that with funding being cut to US public and private universities, they’re shifting the cost burden to students for both tuition and living costs. Several of my former students attending public US universities that aren’t even in large cities, have had to take out loans approaching $25,000 per year (sometimes $30,000-40,000 for private colleges or large cities like New York or San Francisco), with much of that due to the living costs which are no longer subsidized in the States. It’s hardly unusual to be stuck with student loans of greater than $100,000 especially for majors in engineering or the sciences (which are often taught only at the larger universities), even if a student does work-study in college and tries to be frugal with living costs.</p>

<p>It is interesting, now that you mention it, that the international students at that conference largely had not attended universities in Berlin itself, with a couple exceptions (one from Chennai actually, though I never got to talk to him so not sure how he did it). I’d always heard that Berlin is actually relatively inexpensive compared to most other large cities in Western countries, but I can imagine it might be more expensive that many other German cities. That might be why so many of the conference students had chosen some of the smaller German university cities like Karlsruhe, Tubingen or Rostock, which I’d presume would have much lower living costs and perhaps some form of subsidy. I’m actually curious about this now that you’ve raised the issue, so I think I’ll contact some of them to see if that’s the case. </p>

<p>BTW this raises another important issue that I think it’s important to bring to the attention of international students, who may not be aware of the student-debt peril that’s crippling much of America’s generation of students. Student loans in the USA are by the far the most dangerous type of debt, with terrible compounding interest and fees that have little in the way of consumer protections (far worse than even gambling debt for example), so the living costs in the US can be positively dangerous for a student’s future. Even more so for students from India, since you’d probably have to rely more on private lenders who can be especially predatory here. This sort of predatory behavior by financial companies (which has been going on since the 1990’s but made worse by a 2005 banking law here in the States) is banned and heavily penalized in Europe, which better regulates its financial system (although I’ve heard that Britain also has major problems with predatory financing like the US). So there’s better protection, and more active help finding work, even if you do wind up with some debt, which in most cases is easier to avoid than the US due to much lower tuition.</p>

<p>One of my Indian-American ex-students almost a decade ago for example had worked very hard, studying accounting and management at a low-cost college and taken out loans of only $15,000, but after graduation she was injured in a car accident that wasn’t even her fault (the other driver was talking on a cell phone), and was stuck in the hospital or rehab, often on pain meds, in serious condition for months. But her innocence in that unfortunate situation didn’t matter, as unfortunately is common- US financial and insurance companies are often very predatory. Her health insurer used an obscure paperwork issue to deny her coverage and run up her hospital bills, and in her hospitalization (when she was often unconscious) she obviously couldn’t work and missed a couple of her loan payments. Sallie Mae (the company chaired by Albert Lord that you may have read about, controlling most student loans) as well as a smaller private lender were extremely cruel to her, using her misfortune as an excuse to add heavy fines and compounding interest, and they wouldn’t even answer her calls to try and explain the situation. So her originally $15,000 loan swelled up to more than $50,000 very quickly, and as she was still injured and having trouble finding new work, it soon grew even worse. She grew understandably very depressed and nearly committed suicide. </p>

<p>Fortunately through some contacts with friends, she was able to move to France, where she undertook some equivalent there of Master’s studies (in France and Belgium), got a good job and was able to easily overcome any debt issues. She’s now married and lives in France, speaks fluent French and German as well as a little Dutch, and has a thriving career. I realize this is just one example among many, but with high costs and predatory debt practices of US financial companies (many unfortunately also creeping into colleges in Canada), it’s symbolic of the challenges facing students in general. Even many American students are increasingly studying other languages and leaving to pursue their University education and career in Europe, Asia or even a few places in South America. </p>

<p>Thank you for your input and good luck to you wherever you go!</p>

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<p>Hi I am interested in applying to ETH Z but I am not familiar with the process.Do they take SAT and school transcripts?Or do they conduct admission test</p>

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<p>Same here. I haven’t been able to get good scores in my SATs despite working hard. I wish to seek other oppurtunities abroad. If you can please tell me what would I need and how should I go about the process required, I’d be grateful.</p>

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<p>yes, somebody tell about the admission process at German and French univeristies.
i really wanted to study in france, but well, i later gathered that the french universities only offer postgraduate-degree to international students. :3</p>