<p>How hard is it to get into a DO school (assuming I get rejected from all the allopathic schools I apply to)?</p>
<p>What is the average GPA and MCAT scores for these schools? (I could only find data from around 2007)</p>
<p>How hard is it to get into a residency afterwards while competing with fellow DO students and MD students? Thank you</p>
<p>Still very hard to get into a DO school, especially the older, well-known ones. My D is at one of the top three DO schools, about 5,000 applicants for a class of about 200.</p>
<p>DO schools want students who are interested in that approach, not just applying because you didn’t get in to allopathic schools. You have to show that interest in applications. </p>
<p>Above 3.5 and 28-30 is my educated guess. Many students in my D’s class are above that level and many chose the DO school over MD programs.</p>
<p>There are DO residencies and MD residencies. Some DO students take the MD test and apply for MD residencies; most don’t. Same level of competition for more desireable specialities in DO.</p>
<p>AACOM is the osteopathic equivalent to AMCAS.</p>
<p>[College</a> Information Book](<a href=“http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Pages/default.aspx]College”>http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Pages/default.aspx)</p>
<p>If you look at the contents—there chart for the accepted student stats for the last 3 years. (Can’t post myself–having computer issues).</p>
<p>But IIRC, average stats is 3.5 and 29 MCAT.</p>
<p>But osteopathic school have a requirement that most allopathic students don’t have–namely shadowing an osteopathic doctor and LOR from one.</p>
<p>Osteopaths take the USMLE just like allopaths do. DO has its own residency programs, DOs can also compete for MD residencies. Most DOs go into primary care fields–but that has more to do with programmic philosophies than the quality of the students.</p>
<p>My wife is a DO. There are both DO and MD residencies available and you can apply to both. Far more specialty slots available for MD residencies however. You will compete with everyone else for those slots. While DOs have traditionally be strong in primary care, many of my wife’s classmates did MD residencies in a wide variety of specialties. For example, my wife is a neurologist in private practice, did an MD residency at a top notch program and is board certified. Other classmates did specialties in general surgery, orthopedics, physiatry, psychiatry and radiation oncology, among others.</p>
<p>Well, it is significantly ‘easier’ to get into a DO program than a MD. The average entering DO’s GPA is a 3.48 (science being a 3.36) and a 26.5 MCAT based on WOWmoms link. Looking at MD, only 23% of applicants with stats in that range (3.4-3.59/24-26 MCAT) were accepted. The average for MD is around a 3.6/31. The difference is a whole lot of studying for the MCAT (a 4-5 point increase isn’t easy) and taking a number of post-bach classes, earning A’s in all.
<a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf</a>
With that being said, it is not easy. Taking premed courses and leaving with a GPA above 3.0 could be challenging. And, scoring high enough on the MCAT can be as well. MD and DO are both crab shots, you can’t expect to get in neither completely, no matter what your stats are.</p>
<p>Well most people I know who are in DO schools are there because they couldn’t get into MD schools. </p>
<p>My brother is in his second year at NYCOM and he really hates it. He and his friends there told me that they wish they had taken some more time and gone MD. So if that’s coming from a current DO student then it’s saying something.</p>
<p>Is it easier to get into than MD? Comparatively yes since allopathic schools are more competitive thus have a better pool of students. However it still isnt easy. </p>
<p>If you want to do family practice than DO should allow you to do that, however it is much easier to do specialties as an MD since the degree is more widely respected, even outside the US unlike DO. Most people don’t even know what that is, however everyone is aware of the MD degree so it’s also a matter of personal prestige.</p>
<p>So it’s really upto you. I would apply MD and save DO as a back door option if you can’t be an MD. </p>
<p>Remember this is America, we feel the need to let everyone have an opportunity even of they aren’t good enough. In the medical field there is the DO degree to make people feel good about themselves because they cant be MDs. That said there are some very smart people in my brothers class, however he said that I shouldn’t go DO, because he is really unhappy as one.</p>
<p>My options after undergrad are 1. MD schools 2. DO schools 3. Caribbean schools. I want to go into family practice (internal medicine) so I’m fine with DO. </p>
<p>Do the salaries of an MD and DO vary?</p>
<p>No, there isn’t much difference since salary is more based on the specialty than the degree. most DOs do family practice so it’s not an MD predominant field. My brother said that specializing in a field where there are mostly MDs may cause you to earn less as a DO but not really by much.</p>
<p>In summary I think you should be fine.</p>
<p>What are some of the best specialities for DO students?</p>
<p>I’m a health care attorney. Most of my clients are physician groups. In our market (upper midwest), groups hire MDs and DOs without really distinguishing between the two degrees. Pay is the same. Residency and fellowships are much more significant than what degree you have. Full disclosure - my wife is a DO and is a specialist with an MD residency. It has been a non-issue. She attended a DO school because there was one in the town we were living in at the time - it was convenient and was the only school to which she applied.</p>
<p>^ I guess that is your opinion, but my brother who is a current DO student gives me a very different picture so it’s not the same for everyone. No doubt it is possible to be a successful doctor as a DO, it’s apparently easier as an MD according to my brother and his DO friends. </p>
<p>Moreover it’s a choice of personal preference as well, since you can’t deny that getting your top choice residency would be easier as an MD. Plus, with all due respect, the MD degree is much more widely known and recognized so why settle for less when there is a better degree out there?</p>
<p>I mean no offense to your wife, I am sure that she, like some other DOs is a good doctor, but when you hear things like that from your brother and current DO students, it makes you wonder what the point of it even is.</p>
<p>I suppose it is what you make of your opportunities. I’m sure it isn’t the same for everyone. My wife went to a DO program because it fit with where we were in our lives at that time. It was located where we were living and working at the time. She could applied elsewhere to MD programs, but didn’t. We know lots of DOs that are the heads of their respective clinics and departments and went to great residencies. My wife got her first choice residency. At Mayo in neurology. Presumptively they thought well enough of her regardless of her degree. So it is certainly possible to do well with a DO degree. It may be somewhat more difficult than with an MD degree in some parts of the country, but it is by no means an insurmountable issue.</p>
<p>True, having a DO is not an insurmountable issue, but the “lots of DOs are heads of departments” aspect may not be true since most DOs are not department heads, that is easier to do as an MD. It is possible to do that as a DO, but just less DOs do that compared to MDs. Ultimately it boils down to personal choice, because the case if your wife is very rare among DOs. It is hard to get a good residency as a DO since the medical field is difficult enough, I wouldn’t want to limit myself or make it harder for me unnecessarily. This was told me by current DO students so that is saying something, but again, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong or any less of a degree.</p>
<p>Some people choose DO over MD because they think that MD is too hard.
Two of my cousins did this.</p>
<p>Do you mean the application or the actual study program?</p>
<p>^ I know some people in my brother’s class who decided to go DO simply because they thought it would be easier to get into. Im not sure if they think the curriculum is any different in difficulty, but certainly motivated them to go DO because its the comparatively “easier” route. That said, I wouldn’t recommend it until your sure that you can’t get into an MD school.</p>
<p>gutsandglory, I must say you are very off base with much of what you say.</p>
<p>Your statement “It is hard to get a good residency as a DO” is untrue. At NYCOM alone (I am not a student, FYI), over 60% of students do an MD residency. While they generally face some pretty real bias in MD surgical fields, DOs also have their own reserved spots in these fields. There is something like 400 DO ortho spots for every 600 MD ortho when you take into account proportions of entering students, so it’s hardly as large a disadvantage as you think. </p>
<p>The lawyers wife getting a neurology residency at mayo is atypical for a DO?!? Clearly you do not understand the match very well and what are the competitive and less competitive fields if you think that sort of match was a rarity. Mayo has also been historically DO friendly in more competitive fields like EM/Anesthesia. In regards to DO PDs in MD residencies- to give a few examples, the Harvard PD for the PM&R dept, Duke Neurology, Temple/Drexel/Jefferson Anesthesiology programs all have DO Program directors. Not that any of this matters: what on earth does the number of DO or MD program directors matter on any level when considers medical school? Unless your goal is a career in academic medicine, IMO this is a nonissue.</p>
<p>That said, I would certainly agree that going US MD (not carib or any offshore) is the better option than DO if one has a choice, and depending on one’s personal goals it may be worth doing a post-bacc/SMP and an additional 1-2 yrs off to improve credentials for US MD. Personally, I ended up doing this and will be attending an MD in the fall (though I interviewed at many DO schools). But your descriptions also paint a VERY inaccurate portrayal of how DO students fare in the match and future careers. I’m sorry that your “brother” is unhappy, but he really by no means represents the typical DO student nor does his unhappiness in any way reflect on the opportunities one would have.</p>
<p>Here’s a good chart to compare MD vs DO vs Caribbean residency compositions when you account for ACGME + AOA matches. It is not perfect, and doesn’t take into account everything, but its a good start. As you can see, yes, US MD fares the best of the 3, but the difference is hardly as dramatic as one would think, and a DO by no means only limited to a career in primary care (greater than 50% are in non-primary care fields)</p>
<p><a href=“http://i.imgur.com/s6aq7.png[/url]”>http://i.imgur.com/s6aq7.png</a></p>
<p>^ both of us agree that DO is no hinderance to succeeding, it’s just harder and less prestigious than MD. </p>
<p>Moreover if you read my posts, then you would actually have seen that. </p>
<p>My brother in NYCOM and several of his friends there tell not to go DO and wait and try for MD because it will be better in the long run. When current DO students tell you not to go DO that says enough. </p>
<p>End of story.</p>
<p>^^not really. For every “brother” or friend you have, I know dozens of people at osteopathic schools who hold the opposite sentiment as him and in no way feel hindered towards their goals.</p>
<p>So for you to say, “I know X person unhappy with his decision to be a DO, and therefore that is the ‘end of story’ and you can’t debate this any further,” that’s just a pretty weak attempt to argue from authority on your part lol</p>
<p>Sure but why is the US the only country that offers DO degrees? Every other country in the world has some equivalent of an MD and that’s it. But this the land of the free, thus we need to give everyone an opportunity to be what they want even if they aren’t good enough. So in medicine, if you aren’t good enough to be with the better students at an MD school, you can go DO and get a white coat, a stethoscope, and feel all high and mighty. No thanks.</p>
<p>That’s what my brother and his two roommates ended up doing. They applied for MD schools twice and didn’t get into any, but got into DO schools each time. He didn’t have enough money to apply again so he settled for DO. And that’s not just him, I know several people in his class who have exactly the same story.</p>
<p>Moreover it boils down to a personal choice. I wouldn’t want to go DO because the people that I know aren’t happy as DOs and wish they could have been MDs. I don’t want to live with the feeling that I had to be a doctor by going through the back door because I couldn’t get in through the front door. I’d rather keep trying to bash it down. Even if it’s harder, and takes more time and money.</p>
![http://i.imgur.com/s6aq7.png[/url]](http://i.imgur.com/s6aq7.png%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
