<p>Hello everyone. I am a current senior who's also enrolled in college full time. The school board pays for my tuition because of my excellent grades, so I have a some-what advantage over most of my class. I've been very stressed these past few months balancing college work, filling out applications, scholarships, and meeting deadlines. Luckly, I have narrowed my college choice down to two schools: The Ohio State University and Northeastern University. I have already received an early acceptance into OSU and have applied to their honors&scholars program as well as their morrill scholars program. I am just finishing up my Northeastern application. I like OSU because they have a minor in Judicial Politics. It is the only school in the US with an undergraduate program focused on the judicial process. My career goal is to become a Judge, so I along with everyone else in my family think this is the perfect opportunity for me to explore what I love. The only problem with OSU is that the Judicial politics program is only a minor and I have no clue what would be a good major to complete that. I like Northeastern because they have a GREAT co-op program and in this economy internships and networking means the difference between employment and unemployment. Northeastern also has a well-structured major in ASL-Eng interpreting. Ever since my church started offering sign language interpreting to our deaf community I have had an interest in not just learning, but mastering this language. I am determined to learn sign language and hopefully apply it to a court interpreting career. It could be something that brings in extra money during undergrad or law school...or during financially stressful times. OSU has an ASL club. However, they do not have an ASL major, but they are only 1 course shy of having a minor. With a little effort and persistance, an ASL minor could possibly be developed within my four years there (if I chose to attend osu). I am stuck between these two schools. One of which is close to home and family (that would be OSU) and another is far away but offers something I have yet been able to pursue. Though, if I turn down OSU I am turning down the only Judicial Politics minor in the country and possibly an opportunity to network with judicial leaders. This very program could be what gets my foot in the door. I would appreciate any informative advice on what school would ultimately offer the best experience for me in the end. Any suggestions on a good major (if I choose to attend OSU) would also be appreciated. Thank you very much. Sorry for the extended essay lol
Tiara =)</p>
<p>I’m thinking OSU:</p>
<p>You want to be a judge.
To be a judge, you first have to be a lawyer.
To get into law school you need – well, basically any major. Great grades. A hot LSAT score. You can get all of that at OSU, plus that judicial politics minor. Though don’t overestimate the importance of a minor - it’s just a few courses, and unlikely to be a game-changer in your career. </p>
<p>Northeastern will most likely cost you a lot more, if for no other reason than the very high cost of living in Boston. And unless Northeastern has really terrific co-ops specifically aimed at future law school applicants (you should check that out), it may not offer enough of an advantage over OSU relative to the extra expenses of a 5-year NEU degree.</p>
<p>If you choose OSU, choose it on the basis of the honors program and cost (law school is expensive). Do NOT choose it simply on the basis of what you think is the only minor in the country in judicial politics. Here’s why:
- The judicial politics program at OSU is not unique. There are many schools that offer a similar minor (or even a major). Usually, it’s called something like “Law & Society” or “Legal Studies”. I listed several of these programs at the end of this post.
- The political science dept. at OSU has several faculty members interested in judicial politics. Therefore, they’ve offered that as a subspecialty area for their graduate students in American politics. More recently, for undergrads, the dept. started to offer several focused minors in political science. It only makes sense that they would offer one in an area in which they specialize and in which they can offer several relevant courses around a coherent theme. Since you have a career aspiration to be a judge, you are only looking at the title of the minor. Look at the actual courses that constitute this program. It includes courses on political theory, public policy and several other areas not directly related to law. It also includes standard-offer political science courses on civil rights, constitutional law, etc. It’s not really something that you couldn’t put together yourself in a political science major or minor at any number of schools through the courses you elect.
- The courses in OSU’s judicial politics minor are all in the political science dept. By it’s nature, legal studies are interdisciplinary. Other schools that offer a more interdisciplinary program in this area actually do a better job, imo.
- Law schools actually discourage students from trying to load up on a bunch of legal studies courses as an undergrad. Usually, students who do this are trying to anticipate what they’ll do in law school and think that somehow it will prepare them better for law school. That is not correct. It’s OK to take a course or two on the judicial system or criminology, but a broad liberal education with courses that fosters writing, speaking, and thinking skills is the best preparation for law school.
- Realistically, I seriously doubt its going to allow you to “network” with judicial leaders or help you “get your foot in the door”. You’ll be an undergraduate student who’s minoring in political science. Top judges do have law clerks, but that’s based on what someone does in law school. </p>
<p>Some other points:
-I’m look askance at anyone who tells me they want to be a judge before they’ve even established a record in the legal field.
-Judges are either elected or appointed, depending on the jurisdiction, etc. If you plan to pursue a legal career in your home state of Ohio, it wouldn’t be a bad thing to have gone to OSU.
-There are quite a few schools that offer programs in ASL, ranging from majors to certificate programs. A major in ASL wouldn’t be the best choice for law school. You might do a minor or just take courses for a language requirement (some schools permit this), and it might be alright, though still not the best prep for law school.
-Law school admissions are based on your GPA and LSAT scores. Good majors for law school include English, Classics, Philosophy, Economics, Engineering, Math, Political Science. You also could consider a major or second major in a field like Rhetoric with emphasis on writing, speaking, etc. (not sure if OSU offers something like that, but it’s better for law school prep than “communications”).
-As you mentioned, if you go to OSU, you can participate in the ASL club and also take the ASL courses as electives
-Do you need to consider whether your main interest lies in law or ASL?</p>
<p>So, even though the judicial politics minor is not very unique and not particularly a good preparation for law school, I’d still pick OSU over Northeastern.</p>
<p>Some Law & Society programs at other schools:
[Program</a> on Ethics & Public Life](<a href=“http://www.arts.cornell.edu/epl/lawsociety.htm]Program”>http://www.arts.cornell.edu/epl/lawsociety.htm)
[Course</a> Schedule](<a href=“http://lawandsociety.ucsd.edu/schedule/index.html]Course”>http://lawandsociety.ucsd.edu/schedule/index.html)
[Minor</a> in Law and Society | American University](<a href=“http://www.american.edu/spa/djls/degrees/Minor-LWSO.cfm]Minor”>http://www.american.edu/spa/djls/degrees/Minor-LWSO.cfm)
[LSJ</a> Minor | Law, Societies, and Justice](<a href=“http://depts.washington.edu/lsjweb/minors/]LSJ”>http://depts.washington.edu/lsjweb/minors/)
[Undergraduate</a> Major in Social Sciences with an Emphasis in Law and Society | The Interdisciplinary Programs Program at Florida State University](<a href=“http://www.coss.fsu.edu/iss/content/undergraduate-major-social-sciences-emphasis-law-and-society]Undergraduate”>http://www.coss.fsu.edu/iss/content/undergraduate-major-social-sciences-emphasis-law-and-society)
[Political</a> Science: Undergraduate Degrees | USC Catalogue](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/dept/publications/cat2011/schools/college/posc/undergraduate.html]Political”>http://www.usc.edu/dept/publications/cat2011/schools/college/posc/undergraduate.html)
[Legal</a> Studies Minor : Multidisciplinary Studies Center : University of Rochester](<a href=“http://www.rochester.edu/college/msc/legal-studies.html]Legal”>Legal Studies Minor : Majors and Minors : Multidisciplinary Studies Center : University of Rochester)
[University</a> of New Hampshire - Justice Studies Program - Course Offerings](<a href=“http://www.unh.edu/justice-studies/index.cfm?id=644C2ED9-EBEC-52ED-87043AE582CEBE42]University”>http://www.unh.edu/justice-studies/index.cfm?id=644C2ED9-EBEC-52ED-87043AE582CEBE42)
[Law</a> and the Liberal Arts - University of Richmond School of Arts & Sciences](<a href=“http://as.richmond.edu/majors/law-and-liberal-arts/index.html]Law”>Law and the Liberal Arts - School of Arts & Sciences - University of Richmond)</p>
<p>Thank you zapfino. That was very informative. I have already looked over some of the courses that the judicial politics minor has and you are right about many. Some extra courses are supreme court decision making (for honors students) and civil liberties in the court. They all are within the political science dept. but these classes seem like something that would also spark my interest. And I do not plan on staying in Ohio for a judicial career, I’d much rather begin in the va-md-dc area. I didnt just wake up and decide I wanted to be a judge lol. I have been priviledged with the opportunity to job shadow several federal judges, meet with their law clerks, and see exatly what it is that they do. I agree that this minor will not give me much of an advantage over other future-law students, but I do believe I would gain some sort of valuable knowledge from it. I actually considered an economics major, although I am having trouble understanding how economics would better prepare someone for law school than a major like pol sci or criminology. Can you further explain to me why it would work that way?</p>
<p>Thanks katliamom,
It seems like OSU is the best choice, not just for majors/minors but all the opportunities the university has to offer. What kind of major do you think would go great with my intended minor? I have considered: criminology, economics, city and regional planning, public affairs, business admin. and spanish. Im sure the list will get longer as I explore more departments lol. Thank you for the advice!</p>
<p>Tiara</p>
<p>Also, katliamom
Northeastern does have a unique co-op program for law and public policy undergrads and pol sci undergrads. These students have worked at local law firms, government agencies, npo’s, and inside courtrooms. OSU may not have as strong as a co-op program, but im sure if I put great effort into whatever I chose to study I could land a good internship (perhaps even paid like the ones at NU). I know one OSU alumni who got to intern for an associate justice of the Ohio supreme court.
Thanks once again.
Tiara</p>
<p>zapfino’s advice is spot-on. Poli sci would be a fine major, but criminology may be a bit narrow. Econ would be fine as well.</p>
<p>Regarding why economics is better than criminology for pre-law…</p>
<p>Economics majors are among the higher scorers on the LSAT.
Criminal justice majors are among the lowest scorers. Granted, criminology is not quite the same thing as criminal justice, so criminology majors might score a bit higher. Think of criminology as a subfield of sociology; IIRC, sociology majors are not among the highest scoring majors on the LSAT.
Economics, with its quantitative emphasis, probably develops better analytic skills. Or, more people with better analytic skills to begin with are attracted to economics compared to sociology. The content area of economics as well as its rational decision-making framework is quite relevant to many areas of law. Though criminology is relevant to some areas of law, one or two courses should cover the relevant aspects.</p>
<p>To zapfino:
I took a few courses within the criminology dept. and I really enjoyed it, but I also want to be well prepared for law school. I do pretty well in math, but to be honest it is not something I really enjoy. And if I am going to spend 4 years studying a subject, I definitely want to enjoy it. I dont mind the challenge though. If I chose to get a BA in economics would that still give me the same amount of preparation for law school as a BS in economics would? I like the sound of a BA in economics because it seems to be much more flexible so I can explore the other subjects that I take pleasure in, and it also has less mathematics. If I end up not enjoying economics, and I chose to stick to a minor would that still give me an edge for the LSAT? Thank you very much!
Tiara</p>
<p>Judicial9,
For your purposes, I think the BA in economics would be fine.
A minor in economics is good, too, for law school.</p>
<p>I would agree with the other poster that criminology is perhaps narrower than desirable as a preparation for law school. In general, I think a broader background is better. Legal studies have content and methods that are quite specific to law, but law is among the most interdisciplinary of fields in the areas that it touches. Hence, it can and should be approached with a background that encompasses many fields—history, philosophy, politics, economics, psychology, sociology, rhetoric, etc.</p>
<p>Criminology is a subfield of sociology, and somewhat different than criminal justice, which has a more applied focus on police work, corrections, etc. Regarding my earlier post on this, it’s not that a given student in criminology couldn’t develop strong analytic and other skills and do well on the LSAT (and in law school), but rather that as a group, criminal justice majors don’t tend to do well on the LSAT. I suspect it’s a mater of the content of the major as well as the qualifications of students drawn to criminal justice major. It’s a generalization and I can’t pull up hard data, but I suspect criminal justice majors (as a group) simply are not as smart as majors in any number of other fields. </p>
<p>I’m sure you’ll consider all the opinions and advice you get from various sources, but after considering all of it, by all means, balance those considerations with what you know you most enjoy. You’ll do best in the fields that give you the most enjoyment.</p>
<p>A final thought—pursuing or not pursuing a certain field as an undergraduate doesn’t necessary close off the opportunity to pursue it later. There are quite a few law schools that offer joint degrees with various other programs, e.g., JD/MBA, law/psychology, law/public policy, etc. Some examples:
<a href=“http://www.crim.upenn.edu/students/programs/MS-JD.html;[/url]”>http://www.crim.upenn.edu/students/programs/MS-JD.html;</a> [Sorry</a>, the page you have requested could not be found: 404 Error](<a href=“http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/jdmba/;]Sorry”>Full-Time JD-MBA Program | Kellogg School of Management) <a href=“http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/joint.html;[/url]”>http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/joint.html;</a> <a href=“http://www.ap-ls.org/education/GraduatePrograms.php;[/url]”>http://www.ap-ls.org/education/GraduatePrograms.php;</a> <a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/47718;[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/node/47718;</a> [Dual-Degree</a> Programs - University of Virginia School of Law](<a href=“Dual-Degree Programs | University of Virginia School of Law”>Dual-Degree Programs | University of Virginia School of Law)</p>