Out of stater questions on Cal Poly

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
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@ProfessorPlum168, we’re drifting into the weeds a bit, but GPAs below 4.0 are also diluted if one assumes the same GPA. For example, a 3.5 with 12 semesters of As, 12 semesters of Bs and 8 honors semesters will have a higher GPA than a 3.5 wil 16 semesters of As and 16 semesters of Bs. The effect is minimal for any GPA, but impacts all GPAs. All the honors bump does is effectively raise 8 semesters up one notch. Raise an A to an A+, a B to an A, or a C to a B, the net effect is the same is diluted by more hours.

@lkg4answers, that is how CP determines “rigor.” The GPA is not impacted. It does raise the MCA though. As you say, no system is perfect. What is nice about CP is that it is objective.

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@121IllinoisDad: I gave the UC GPA calculator link so instead of plugging in the 10-11th grades for the a-g courses listed below, you would enter in the 9-11th grades into the calculator. Since your son is OOS, HS designated courses do not get the extra honors point bump in the GPA. Only AP/IB classes taken 10-11th grades get the extra weighting with a maximum up to 8 honors points (8 semesters). If you are still unsure, please list the classes and grades from 9-11th and I or another CC poster can help you calculate.

https://rogerhub.com/gpa-calculator-uc/
Capped weighted UC GPA with 9th grades = SLO GPA
A-G courses with the minimum years required. SLO recommends above the minimums.
History / Social Science (2 years) “A”:
Two years of history/social science, including one year of world history, cultures and geography; and one year of US history, or one-half year of US history AND one-half year of American government.
English (4 years) “B”:
Four years of college-preparatory English. If taking ESL-type classes, only the highest year can be counted towards this requirement.
Math (3 years required; 4 years recommended) “C”:
Three years of college preparatory mathematics; the minimum pattern is Algebra I, Geometry, and Algebra II. Math courses taken in the 7th and 8th grades that the student’s high school accepts as equivalent to its own may be used to fulfill a part of this requirement.
Laboratory Science (2 years required; 3 years recommended) “D”:
Two years of laboratory science in at least two of these three subjects: biology, chemistry, and physics.
Language Other than English (2 years required; 3 years recommended) “E”:
Two years of the same language other than English. Courses taken in the 7th and 8th grades may be used to fulfill part of this requirement if the student’s high school accepts them as equivalent to its own courses.
Visual and Performing Arts (1 year) “F”
A single yearlong visual or performing arts class such as dance, drama, music, or visual art (drawing, painting, etc.).
College Preparatory Elective (1 year) “G”:
One year chosen from additional “A-F” courses beyond those used to satisfy the requirements above, or courses that have been approved elective classes.

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Mote info: https://admissions.calpoly.edu/applicants/freshman/criteria.html

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This is really a double edged sword as far as Cal Poly goes. By taking a less rigorous course load a student won’t be able to amass the rigor points to field a competitive MCA. Ten percent of the MCA is rigor points for math alone.

In the bigger scheme of things, it’s not about getting into college, but rather getting out of college. His preparation will help him immensely.

If he’s sold on Cal Poly, I’d suggest he look deeply into every engineering major they offer to see if anything besides CS fits. In addition to IE, both Materials Engineering and Manufacturing Engineering have a pretty low barrier to entry. If he reads more about them one might resonate. If he chooses this route though, there probably won’t be a route into CS, SE or CompE. Those were over enrolled and they aren’t allowing change of major in with the exception of switching between the three.

If he’s determined to do something CS related, I’d choose SE. It’s less competitive. That message has really gotten out though. SE gets more competitive every year. The lowest accepted MCA I found last year was 4660. I’d also suggest he get a job, even if it’s as a volunteer that ties somehow into computers, no matter how menial, even if it’s just a couple hours per week, in order to get the MCA pop for having a major related job. That’s an extra 70 points if he works between 1 and 5 hours per week.

A third way, since he isn’t super interested in actually being an engineer anyway, is to look at technical majors that could jive with a startup that are outside of the CENG. Specifically, I’d look at Liberal Arts and Engineering Studies (LAES) and Industrial Technology (IT).

LAES is not ABET accredited, but has LOTS of flexibility. Students enter via change of major only, so he’d have lots of flexibility on what to choose on his application. Since he’s looking to do something less traditional, that might be an angle.

IT is an interesting major within the business school. Things like packaging and supply chain management fall under that major.

Have fun with your visits!

https://laes.calpoly.edu/apply

https://www.cob.calpoly.edu/undergrad/industrial-technology/

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@Gumbymom @eyemgh ,
Thank you. This makes way more sense now. Unfortunately he screwed himself a bit with all the honors classes that don’t add weight. His weighted GPA as best I can tell is 3.9. Three years of Honors English & Honors Spanish & STEM had no value other than to add to his workload. :frowning: On the bright side, he told me this morning that his AP scores this year were two 5s and a 4. Not that this helps in admissions.

I do still have a few questions:

  1. GPA is rounded to the nearest 10th?

  2. My reading of 7th & 8th grade credit only counts for math and Foreign Language. Math was Geometry which I believe counts. His Freshman Spanish class was a 200-level so I assume that’s proof that this counts.

  3. Senior year grades don’t matter as long as they stay above a C? (C is the lowest for course credit). Asked another way, Senior grades won’t add or subtract from the GPA on his application?

  4. 8th grade Math and Foreign Language are or are not included in his GPA? This won’t affect his final GPA if rounded to the 10th (3.9 either way), just asking to ensure accuracy.

  5. Getting him out of LifeGuarding and into a STEM related job would be hugely helpful (bonus 50 points)? I think I might be able to pull that off. My best from college is a Mechanical Engineering Professor at Illinois Institute of Technology. I’m also a Northwestern alum and live 15 minutes from campus so slight chance I could pull strings there. Does the job need to be paid? I see an unpaid internship as the only realistic option.

  6. If he wants to go to Cal Poly, we need to drop another course next year and add an Art, music, etc class? I plan to call CP and ask if there are any other workarounds (like taking 2 summer courses before college starts). His electives were consumed by STEM classes.

With all these changes, and no improvement to his test scores, I think this is where he stands:

  1. ECs maxed out excluding job-related points: 4,716
  2. ECs maxed out, including job-related points: 4,766

From what I’ve seen, he’s in the ballpark but not a slam dunk? He’s taking the ACT again next week. His math score last time was on the low end of his average test scores (scored a 33 and averaged 33-36). I think there’s room to improve there.

Very long story short - sounds like if CP is his top choice we need to get him into an arts class (maybe drop Spanish since he’s capped out), boost his ACT a bit and hopefully get my professor buddy to give him an internship.

Thank you!
Brian

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  1. GPA is rounded to the nearest 100th

  2. Algebra I will count too.

  3. Senior year grades don’t matter as long as they stay above C or better. The caveat I would offer is that every year students slack knowing they only need a C and then slip to a D. It’s not a license to coast.

  4. 8th grade Math and Foreign Language are or are not included in his GPA? This won’t affect his final GPA if rounded to the 10th (3.9 either way), just asking to ensure accuracy.

I think they are included, but it’s been a long time. @Gumbymom will know for sure. They don’t require middle school transcripts.

  1. Getting him out of LifeGuarding and into a STEM related job would be hugely helpful (bonus 50 points)?

This would be 50 points for being major related PLUS the bonus level for the number of hours he works. 1-5/week is 20 points, for a total of 70.

  1. If he wants to go to Cal Poly, we need to drop another course next year and add an Art, music, etc class?

I’d call the college and clarify what will qualify. It is true though that he must have a minimum of two semesters (one college semester) of a F category class.

I would guess a 4786 would be competitive for SE from OOS.

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Brian, No especially on #3. You are applying to many other school besides SLO. Senior year grades DO count for many other schools. Your son is only compared to kids at his school per se though the schools AO. Your kid is not even compared to where my kid graduated in Illinois several years ago which is all honors and AP and a top ranked school.
So doing well and raising his unweighted GPA does come into play. Even for UIUC.
Want a great engineering program in Chicago that looks great on Applications then look into https://acementor.org/index.php/affiliates/illinois/chicago/about-us/
Doing well in senior year shows the schools he is ready for college.
Sorry to jump on this unless I am reading something incorrectly.

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According to the SLO Freshman selection criteria:
Middle School Coursework (if applicable):
Cal Poly will give consideration for coursework taken in 7th and 8th grade for Mathematics and Language Other than English only. The coursework must be entered into the application to receive consideration; it will not be assumed. The courses and grades received should be entered under 9th grade in the High School Coursework section.

Since SLO does use 9th grades in their GPA calculation and the Middle school grades are entered in the Cal State apply application under 9th, then most likely they will be included in the GPA calculation. I would check with admissions since before the Cal State apply application was redesigned, the Middle school grades were reported under 8th grade and not included in the GPA calculation. I believe a CC poster did call admissions last year and was told they are included however I am unable to find the specific post that referenced this information. If I am able to find it, I will link it.

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@Knowsstuff Sorry, question came across the wrong way. Was more curious whether it could pull his UC weighted GPA up. His strategy to challenge himself probably helps at other schools but it’s hurting him here. The reference to a “C” was just because it seems the only requirement for Seniors is related to earning course credit.

We’re still in SLO so we’re just going to drive over to the admissions office and ensure we understand MCA scoring and standards as best as possible.

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@121IllinoisDad. Have a great time. But for other schools you mentioned like Michigan,senior year grades are very important.
Have fun! ?

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One other word if advice, Dad to Dad. Don’t let your son get to high or low on any one school. There are many great schools out there.

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I agree with @Knowsstuff. In a perfect world, even safety schools should be competing for first choice. My son’s final three choices were between a program that is very selective (CP ME), one that lets about 50% in (WPI), and one that lets nearly everyone in (Utah). Each had very attractive strengths.

As for senior grades, how would a school even know senior grades, since applications are due before first semester grades are reported? Of course, doing the best one can is important, even in senior year. I’m just not sure how they’d know. They might have stricter conditional acceptance (?).

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Here is some information regarding Middle school grades from a SLO CC poster:
SLO application does not ask for specific grades and P/NP can be paced if desired; this was also verified with Admissions personally.
Admissions works from highest math backwards to middle school. Once max MCA points are achieved in HS, MS work is moot. Some HS paradoxically place partial MS coursework in a Notes section on a HS transcript despite there is no CA Ed Code requiring such; removing MS courses can be another story.
On a side note, love the fact that when one calls Cal Poly, any Department, a live and often helpful person answers the phone and usually right away.

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@eyemgh. Many schools like Michigan are notorious for deferring those that apply EA. They request first semester senior grades at that point. For those appling RD they also request first semester and sometimes midterm grades. Our school also automatically sends in the students senior grades to colleges. I actually thought this was more the norm. We were told at the open houses and tours on many campuses through the US that schools want to make sure you are doing well in the senior year to let them know you can continue that at college.

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Our daughter is a rising junior at Cal Poly, and like you, we too were out of state. When she applied to civil engineering, I really did not think she would be admitted, not because of grades (she was maxed out), but because of her ACT score, a 31. Clearly if she had applied to one of the more competitive majors within engineering, she would not have been. But she did have other things going for her which helped. She took both Algebra and Geometry in middle school AND PUT THEM ON HER APPLICATION. Many students don’t and they are denied admission because they don’t follow the directions on the application. She did have performing arts credits and leadership positions in clubs. Don’t they still give points for that? She also had a job. I think your son will be admitted if he chooses one of the lesser competitive majors within engineering. Just make sure he accrues points everywhere he can, even if only 25-50, they add up (which is exactly what you are doing). And like others have said, have some solid back-up choices. I know when we were looking at colleges, our daughter fell in love many times. It’s very possible your son will do the same. Good luck!

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My sons took “f” community college classes online. One took a quarter long graphic design class and the other a music class.

I will add that the CSU application shows a auto calculated GPA when completed. This only includes 10-11 so it can be misleading to CP SLO applicants. I think this also leads to confusing self reported GPAs from rejected applicants on CC.

The GPA on the application is not the CP SLO GPA but the CSU GPA used by all the other CSU campuses.

I also found that college classes are double counted. One college classes = two semester credits and the letter grade is counted twice. For a student that has a sub uw 4.0 this could help boost the GPA a bit.

My kids were in the application cycles in 2014, 2016, 2018. I learned a bit more with each pass.

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First of all, it’s early. Your son will be maturing quite a bit between now and May 1, 2020. Some of mine changed their minds. Even those who did not had streaks and times of ambivalence. So this is not necessarily going to be THE school for him

Secondly, absolutely apply. Cal Poly is a wonderful school from all that I’ve heard about it. Unless he applies, it won’t be an option for him. So put it on the list.

Thirdly, as long as he has one sure thing school, where you are as sure as can be that he will be accepted and can get his engineering degree, apply with wild abandon.

Fourth, have a variety of cost options available so you and he can value rate his choices in May. No reason you have to take the least expensive or best value. But go through those paces.

Fifth, understand the drawbacks of going to an OOS public school that doesn’t have a lot of OOS students. There are a lot of built in presumptions in schools and other places that are geared to the vast majority. Some of those things, kids know through conventional wisdom gained from time spent in a state. Talking to instate classmates, teachers, parents etc. when you are outside that circle, you can miss out if not aware and proactive to finding out these things , often opportunities , reputations, subtleties. Also you are not going to have as many degrees of connections with students. My son particularly noted this. His cousin was at same school and knew ever so many people and even more with connections. My son did not. It can feel lonely at times, especially if not social and not used to that situation, and sensitive to it

It appears to me, that you are missing the fact that OOS students do not get extra points for honors or advanced courses at Cal Poly . Only specifically designated AP courses I remember kids frustrated with this issue from some OOS school or other, coming from a very rigorous prep school that did not designate ANY of their courses as AP, or honors , for that matter. Anyone could take an AP exam, and the courses covered the material with additional test prep sessions offered before the exam. But colleges that were looking for rigor, had to know the school by reputation and school profile. A lot of state universities failed in this regard for all their touring that they looked at each applicant holistically as well. Just not possible at large universities that have to evaluate so many applications in such a short time.

Great that your son has found things he knows he likes in a school!

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@cptofthehouse, agree on the risks of OOS. I grew up in Kansas and went to Wake Forest (North Carolina) as a Freshman. Within a week of arriving, an arse in my dorm nicknamed me “Dorthy”. One of the fraternities flew the confederate flag. I did not fit in at all. I transferred to Northwestern after my first year and had a blast. My son and I discussed this and he’s less worried since California is such a big & diverse state. But the point is valid. Also, my parents are retired in Palm Springs and we’ve been going to California for holidays for nearly a decade. Not the same as living there but the state isn’t foreign to my kids. We don’t own any Billabong hoodies or Vans yet but I’m sure those will come soon enough. Just as long as he doesn’t get any tattoos we’ll be fine.

Anyway on Friday, my son and I were still in SLO and figured we’d just go to the admissions office and learn what they would tell us. A lot of what we were told is echoed in these comments but I’ll go ahead and offer it for the good of the order. The guy we spoke with actually grew up about 15 miles from where we live in the Chicago burbs. Perhaps for that reason, he really opened up. Here are some of the things he said:

  1. They don’t trust grades. He mentioned grade inflation at least a dozen times. I’m sure that’s why they limit the GPA. He also said that my son’s 34 on his ACT will easily compensate for his weighted 3.9. That said, he also encouraged my son to keep taking the ACT until he posted a 36 on math and RC. He’s gotten 36s in Math in a number of practice tests so we’ll keep trying.
  2. As noted above, they double count courses that are taken at a local community college (one course = 2 semesters). Since we need some art credits (his electives were filled with STEM courses), we’ll probably go that route. He also said, if completed prior to his application we can add them to his GPA. Since he is below a 4 weighted, that would help. If he were above, it would dilute the GPA.
  3. They treat every application the same. IS/OOS is not known during their evaluation. I wonder whether or not that is really true given the anecdotal evidence that OOS admission rates are higher (just from that one article a previous poster provided). Regardless, that is what he said.
  4. The online MCA calculator that was caps points for courses taken but he implied that my son would still be better off maxing out every category. So much so that he suggested dropping AP Stats and Honors Spanish for “Basketweaving and Paint by Numbers”. Rational: he’ll be over the max in Math & Foreign Language but will be below the max for English & Art. That logic is a bit counter-intuitive and given both these courses can retire college credit (& Cal Poly’s reputation for graduating >4 years), I think we’ll stay the course and look to fill out Art & possibly English with some easy Community College courses.
  5. Lastly, he discouraged us from trying to game the system by looking at acceptance rates by major and picking one with a high acceptance. He said so many people do this that it causes some majors to bounce back and forth from high to low as people look for the path of least resistance. That being said, Computer Science at 5.5% looks legitimate difficult, especially since you’re not allowed to transfer into that one. I suspect that may be an exception and a major to only consider if it is clearly your interest.

We’ll keep looking and will definitely add some safeties (he’s all but guaranteed at Alabama & we’ll look at Iowa State as a local option). That said, as sporty as my son is, it was more than just the Engineering program that caught his eye. As we were leaving he said, “Dad, its impossible to get bored at a place like this.” We spent our second day on campus strictly touring the rec center as well as the pools, courts & fields (all are amazing). For someone athletic, I cannot imagine a better place to spend four years.

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@121IllinoisDad Thanks for the great post! Glad to hear that the admissions office was so helpful. It is great that you visited the school over the summer with enough time to make a plan - re-take the ACT and add art in order to put him in the best position to be accepted. Best of luck to your son!

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“My son and I discussed this and he’s less worried since California is such a big & diverse state.”

I’m no expert on cal poly but I’ve read that it is the least racially diverse university in California.

Looking at CP Google stats…
1% AA
16% Asian
65 to 77% Caucasian + Latin