<p>So, in the social circle that I live in today (upper-middle class, over-educated, white, highly insular) there's this intense stereotype of highly ambitious kids who want to make a ton of money on wall street (or via some other "cut throat" vocation). This person is: shallow, short sighted, greedy, pretentious. </p>
<p>Yet, it seems to me that people get PhDs or pursue other more "rewarding" careers for the same reasons other people try to make millions of dollars. Power, status, respect--in different social circles, perhaps, but power, status, and respect nonetheless. </p>
<p>I'm just a senior heading off to college in the fall so I don't actually know what I'm talking about...but I'd be interested to hear what you all think.</p>
<p>On the other hand, many people, even with PhDs, expect to be neither rich nor famous, and do what they find intrinsically rewarding. Hope you expand your “social circle” at college.</p>
<p>Is that wisdom? I don’t think so. I’m sure many are well aware of it; I sure am. The last thing I want to do is inflate someone’s ego because I am well aware of its consequences. </p>
<p>OP: Just do what you love and disregard others. There is a certain pleasure that come from finding things out; I am sure you will love Richard Feynman. Read “Surely You are Joking Mr. Feynman”.</p>
<p>Hmmm. Speaking from my base here in Hilbert space:</p>
<p>Power: Not much
Status: You are joking
Respect: Yes, probably, from certain types of people</p>
<p>My reason for doing research, post-Ph.D.: a kind of unquenchable curiosity about the way the world works (read: the way quantum mechanics works)<br>
I’ve just solved a problem that I’ve been working on for 5 months–tonight, I expect to have my first really good night’s sleep in 5 months. No coincidence.</p>
<p>And, hey, davidthefat, I can tell that you are one of “us.” I look forward to reading your papers in the future (although I won’t know they’re yours).</p>
<p>From my experience, nobody in their right mind would go for a PhD to be rich or famous or powerful, OP. That is because a life in academia pays well, but not even close to a career in Wall Street, the status just isn’t there. And, I do research because I have questions that I want to answer for my own curiosity. Probably only a handful of people will read my research, if I am lucky. And to be perfectly honest, I don’t care.</p>
<p>Hmm… How is wanting to make a ton of money short-sighted? Many people who go into Wall Street do so with the intention of making so much money that they retire at age 40 and spend the next half of their life relaxing/doing what they want with no financial stress.</p>
<p>I think the point of OP’s post is that people tend to demean those who pursue lucrative careers but not those who pursue intellectual careers, regardless of their respective motivations (which may be superficial or simply passionate, in either case).</p>
<p>I had no special lust for power, status, or even for any particular level of respect, but I got my PhD because I loved science and didn’t want to be held back in my scientific career because I didn’t have one. I was getting my ticket punched, so to speak. </p>
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<p>No, not necessarily. But people are supposed to feel shame if their pursuit of wealth is so over the top that it crosses over into greed.</p>
<p>Bay, it’s what OP means. But he’s living in an intellectual bubble. I know lots of people who went to college to make money and who snicker at the academic but (relatively) poor PhDs and their 8-year old economy sedans…</p>
<p>Yep, sounds like lots of people I know…including nearly everyone on one side of my family. However, that’s balanced out by the otherside who regards business executives/MBAs as on the same level as the scummiest politicians. </p>
<p>As you may surmise…they don’t exactly get along. :D</p>
<p>It is likely that the great majority of college students are motivated at least in part by expectations of higher pay for college graduates. Consider that typical moderately selective state universities tend to have large numbers of business and other obviously pre-professional majors. Majoring in most liberal arts may be seen as a luxury activity available to those from wealthy families who have less need to worry about immediate job prospects at graduation or the financial return on investment of their cost of attendance. The incentives may be different for a student from a low to middle income family who needs student loans to be able to attend college.</p>
<p>The Piled Higher, Deeper degree is certainly not the road to power, status or respect in this anti-intellectual country. It’s often the road to broke (there was an article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed last week about the number of adjunct professors on public assistance), unemployed, or unemployable. Though at least demographics are finally turning around after 30 years.</p>
<p>Ucbalumnus is exactly right, and what goes for the luxury of the liberal arts undergraduate degree goes doubly so for the Ph.D. in Humanities.</p>
<p>Actually, I think the point of the OP’s post is to suggest that people seeking “intellectual” degrees are just as shallow and self-centered as people going for the cash. Some are, and some aren’t.</p>
<p>In my experience the people who pursue ‘intellectualism’ are not seeking power or status. They do like to get the respect of their peers. </p>
<p>In my experience the people who truly pursue wealth are not seeking power nor do they care about respect. Many do like the status that comes with wealth, others just like being able to buy whatever they want to buy.</p>
<p>I think some people pursue wealth out of a desire to impress others with what they can have / buy, other people pursue it because they want to make their families’ lives nicer and experience the better things in life (not necessarily to impress, but just to have), and still other people pursue it because they have a real need for security that only lots of 000’s in the bank account can fill. And yet others just pursue careers they happen to love which happen to be high-paying.</p>
<p>There are many people in both banking and academia that pursue their occupations for money and being the center of the cocktail party, just as there are many perfectionists and all-A students. I surmise it’s because the skill set necessary for both occupations favors the abovementioned types of people. </p>
<p>I mean, on the other hand, some bums are washed out crack addicts, and some are people who didn’t bother with a Plan B.</p>
<p>Seems to me a person could choose almost any career field with an ulterior motive of “power, status, and respect.” Just depends who your reference group is.</p>
<p>Whether this is apropos I don’t know, but I have attended a couple of scholarship receptions for my D’s over the past years. I am certainly grateful to accept the stipends towards my cost of their respective educations (which seems like throwing a deck chair off the Titanic at times ), but the way the speakers tended to ramble about the business world and how things ‘should’ be…I wanted to raise my hand & say “excuse me, Mr. Tenured-Professor-Intellectual, but you have nary a clue of what goes on out there. You need to take a two-year sabbatical and instead of studying in London on the University’s dime, get your tail out there in the trenches & only THEN can you talk to me about how things ‘should’ be.”</p>
<p>But I didn’t do anything of the sort. I smiled graciously and went back to drinking my coffee. :)</p>
), but the way the speakers tended to ramble about the business world and how things ‘should’ be…I wanted to raise my hand & say “excuse me, Mr. Tenured-Professor-Intellectual, but you have nary a clue of what goes on out there. You need to take a two-year sabbatical and instead of studying in London on the University’s dime, get your tail out there in the trenches & only THEN can you talk to me about how things ‘should’ be.”</p>