<p>I'm a high school senior aiming to get into top Ivies, Stanford, Chicago, etc. with a strong GPA (3.97) in 12 total AP's + 1 CC class and high SAT (2330). Looking at it as objectively as possible, I also think my EC's are pretty good. The only thing that I feel like could kill me is the "grade-grubber" label I feel like I've been given my whole high school career and its effect on my letters of recommendations. There were some teachers in my underclassman years who got on me for asking my average too much and comparing grades with classmates. During junior year, however, I made an effort not to put forth the feeling that I just want A's in class and don't really give a jack about the actual material. For my college recs, I'm making sure to go to teachers I really made an attempt to care about the material in. </p>
<p>Since 8th or 9th grade, I've had the "investment banking" mindset (i.e. get into a top recruited college, get a high GPA there, get into ibanking, reap the career advancement awards.).</p>
<p>Honestly being a grade-grubber isn’t bad, only when it’s the only thing you care about. Obviously you want to do the best you can, but you also have to genuinely be interested in the class, even if it kills you. Teachers look for students who actively participate, help others, ask questions, and bring an overall positive attitude to the class.</p>
<p>Then again I’m pretty sure I’m BSing this whole thing, so what do I know. Just my $0.02</p>
<p>The only way to overcome it is to not BE one. I personally think teachers know the difference most of the time. Also, teachers talk about their students. So if some teachers know you as a grade grubber, they likely all do. Honestly, it is too late anyway. You can’t change your image in the couple of weeks that might be left before your recs are written. Some colleges won’t care if that is your reputation anyway (is JHU on your list?).</p>
<p>Would a school like Penn-Wharton care? I feel like if anything, they embrace the competitive type more than typical liberal arts-like schools such as Dartmouth, Chicago, or Columbia? Correct me if I’m wrong on this. </p>
<p>I would say my top three choices right now are Harvard, Penn-Wharton, and Princeton.</p>
<p>I’ve been a college instructor. (At JHU, as it happens!) To me, grade grubbing is annoying but usually forgivable, especially if it’s only inquiring about grades and not trying to rule-lawyer your marks up repeatedly. Also, high school is a time to explore and make mistakes. Being annoying comes with the territory of being a teenager. If teachers only wrote good recs for teenagers who were never annoying, they would never write any recs at all.</p>
<p>Personally, I’ve never gossiped about a student with another teacher. Others might, and it’s probably different in high school. But you can’t think about it anyway because it will drive you crazy.</p>
<p>I’ve written good recs for students I haven’t cared for personally because they were nice and showed interest, had worthy ECs and asked politely. And I generally cared for my student personally, even if they were all at least a little annoying at one time or another.</p>
<p>My guess is the “grade grubber” label is not as widespread or deep set on you as you’re making it out to be. I wonder if what’s really happening is you have a tendency to overworry and triple-double-check on things, which is why you were asking about averages in the first place, and why you’re asking about asking about averages now. Tranquilo.</p>
<p>Harvard wants to see that you’re passionate about something. Could be an academic subject, could be some kind of art or community service that’s not academic. Can’t be big-money-career oriented though. If you have something like that - especially if your rec-writers also mention it - you have a pretty good shot. Sorry I can’t help with Wharton.</p>
<p>A teacher’s perspective - it’s completely obvious who’s working hard for the grade and who’s working hard because they are intellectually curious. There’s really no way to deceive anyone in the matter. </p>
<p>If you have someone tricked, you might want to think twice before asking them for a recommendation. Your teacher’s competence and ability to articular himself/herself also reflects on you. </p>
<p>Well, being a grade grubber is no big deal as long as you actually care.</p>
<p>For example, AP Physics was kind of weird in that we didn’t get many points each semester, so half a point equaled like 1% of our grade for a while. When my teacher entered a quiz grade wrong (gave me 16/18 instead of 16.5/18) I asked him to fix it and people thought it was hilarious. However, that .5 points was the difference between a 96 and a 97 for me. Aside from that, AP Physics was my favorite class in the world and I continually demonstrated tons of interest in all the cool stuff we were learning, I just also cared about my grades.</p>
<p>Feel free to disagree with me, but I think that you shouldn’t have to fake being interested in anything you don’t care about if you’re paying $17k + in private school tuition or even through taxpayer money to attend the school. But the reality for college recs makes it be otherwise…</p>
<p>Yeah, I’ve got my ED Wharton app ready. My parents are okay with me applying there ED, and I’ve got a really compelling case as to why I’d want to go there IMO.</p>
<p>Sure, Harvard is my first choice but only very minimally over Wharton. Plus, I think the significant bump in ED chances for Wharton as opposed to EA/RD Harvard makes sense for me to apply Wharton early.</p>
<p>* shouldn’t have to fake being interested in anything you don’t care about *</p>
<p>Attitude comes through. Adcoms at top colleges like kids who are genuinely curious and motivated by the learning. And, it’s not about making a “compelling case” re: why you want to go there. This is a matter of how compelling your full app is, to them. </p>
<p>Did you speak with your letter writers, smooth any potential rough edges, before they submit?</p>
<p>I just submitted my Wharton ED and Chicago EA apps a few days ago. I just get the feeling that, fairly or not, school branding for your resume and career matters more than if you know some minutiae about classic literature.</p>
<p>Also, if this matters, I think one of my teachers may have overheard me freshman year say, “f* being educated, I just want to make lots of money at a hedge fund one day.”</p>