<p>I agree that geography is underrated.</p>
<p>My reason for thinking math is overrated is not that it’s not a good major to choose; I love math and almost majored in it myself. I just don’t think it’s as hard, or as intellectually challenging, as some people purport it to be. That’s all.</p>
<p>Now why is philosophy underrated, IMO? Well, I would say it’s just as difficult as math; and it’s just as beautiful, with perhaps even a wider spectrum of directions and applications. Yes, it doesn’t guarantee you a good job or grad school opportunities, but then again neither does math.</p>
<p>I think one of the main things that has me saying math is a bit overrated is that most of the math majors I know have a “more intellectual than thou” attitude towards other subjects, which annoys me.</p>
<p>Kafka89 you have issues. too weird.</p>
<p>Quicksilver, I can understand your annoyances (as an engineer, I know plenty of math majors who look down on me), but I still think math is one of the most intellectually challenging majors around. I think we can agree to disagree, as we seem to have different definitions of overrated and underrated.</p>
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<p>Tell that to the math majors who got into excellent grad schools.</p>
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<p>Half a year ago I would have completely disagreed with you but now I think I can see where you are coming from (I am extremely bitter about the math program at the college I am currently at…)</p>
<p>At the beginning of the semester I was surprised that most of my classmates in abstract algebra were not familiar with basic algebraic structures (groups, rings…), homomorphisms, equivalence relations… until I found out that the college I am currently at offers only computational linear algebra. But matrix groups, dual spaces and Jordan normal forms are definitely a lot more interesting to study than simple matrix multiplication.</p>
<p>Are you familiar with the Putnam exam? Do you think its difficulty is extremely overrated or might math be a challenging subject (depending on how it’s taught) after all?</p>
<p>What about the math majors who didn’t and ended up working at a crappy inner city high school?</p>
<p>Quote:
“My reason for thinking math is overrated is not that it’s not a good major to choose; I love math and almost majored in it myself. I just don’t think it’s as hard, or as intellectually challenging, as some people purport it to be. That’s all.”</p>
<p>Tell that to the math majors who got into excellent grad schools.</p>
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<p>And what, Formidable, would you tell to the Philosophy majors who got into excellent grad schools? Just curious…</p>
<p>Quicksilver: Interesting points re: math. I’m also of the opinion that it really just depends on the program and the individual student, though. It’s possible to get a pretty “soft” math degree, whereas that might be less true in, for example, Engineering (I don’t know, just venturing a guess that while programs vary school to school, there might be sort of a “minimum” level of difficulty no matter where you go or which path you pick). It’s also possible to get a pretty incredible math education, though. Having gone to one of the Claremont Colleges, but not Harvey Mudd, I’ve met math majors from across the spectrum, including plenty of exceptionally intelligent students who’ve been stumped in their share of math courses. Of course, having been a Philosophy major at the school next door to the tech college, I also sympathize with the “more intellectual than thou” attitude you mention…</p>
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<p>Then there’s a problem with them, not the major.</p>
<p>my school has a math: philosophy option. don’t know what that’s about. :D</p>
<p>4321234: Which school, if you don’t mind saying? I’ve never heard of that being an actual degree or concentration…that’s really cool.</p>
<p>barium:
Yes, I have heard of the Putnam exam. I have looked up several old ones, out of curiosity, and found the problems - though quite involved - to not be out of my league. In fact, some of the problems are actually quite simple; the main thing keeping me from doing much better on the ones I’ve looked at is the fact that I am not a math major, and lots of the terms are alien to me. But, almost universally, the problems I understand I have had little trouble solving in a respectable (though by no means stellar) amount of time. Sadly, only math majors are allowed to be sponsored at my school, regardless of the fact that <em>no participant from my school has ever correctly answered a single question on the Putnam</em>. Oh well, I honestly don’t care. Silly math people.</p>
<p>And I mean, sure it depends on the program and the student. Alright. But I also think that general questions merit general responses. And I can only speak from experience…</p>
<p>Obviously this thread is quite subjective, and there’s nothing wrong with that. And quicksilver, I’ve actually really appreciated the points you’ve made here…this is certainly not a criticism or disagreement! But in fairness, note that the average Putnam score is a zero, so in this case, your own experience might be atypical.</p>
<p>Doesn’t necessarily change any relevant claims. Just something I thought should be noted…</p>
<p>Actually, I thought the median score is almost always zero (or 1 on easy years).</p>
<p>It’s the median score that’s zero. If the average score is zero, that implies everybody makes zero. I can prove that if you want. That’s certainly no Putnam question! lolz</p>
<p>quicksilver: a lot of Putnam questions look not too hard, but there’s almost always a “twist” involved (e.g. one fairly obvious solution and then a second one that hardly anyone finds; or a question that could be easily solved with a calculator but requires some creativity to solve without one). Of course you might just be one of the 100 most mathematically gifted college students in this country…</p>
<p>Some other personal and highly subjective experience and by no means general:</p>
<p>Math was considered one of the hardest majors offered at the university I was taking math courses during high school. About 300 students each year started as math majors, and only about 40 of them passed the intro courses (linear algebra and analysis). The other ~260 students changed their majors, mostly to computer science, physics, engineering, econ and business and most of them are quite successful in their second majors. </p>
<p>Maybe most of these students just declared the wrong major to begin with, but I think that math (axiomatic math and not the crap taught at most colleges – yes, I admit that most math major programs are not too challenging) is one of the harder subjects of human inquiry.</p>
<p>Well, I had old exams online and solutions, I worked maybe 1/5-1/4 of the problems on about 1/4 the exams and got them right, exactly. I only did the ones that looked doable. They included game theory, logic, and optimization problems. Problems asking about abstract algebra, real analysis, topology and other math-intensive subjects were nearly indecipherable to me. That being said, I am still doing better on these tests than the best math majors at my school, which is what irks me. I don’t think the problems I solve are hard problems. Then again, most solvable problems aren’t hard.</p>
<p>And I agree that how the subject is taught has a lot to do with how hard it ends up being. But that’s true of any subject; anything can be taught in such a way that it’s arbitrarily hard. IMO, that is.</p>
<p>Kudos for doing so well on the Putnam exam. Maybe you should talk to the math department and see if they let you take it next year (if you have not graduated by then, that is).</p>
<p>I agree that any subject can be taught arbitrarily hard. But math, by definition, is axiomatic - that’s just not how most colleges teach it. It seems that most colleges make it easier than it is on purpose by omitting the very essence (and imo beauty) of the subject.</p>
<p>Thanks, barium. I’ve already looked into it, but the sponsor is all about math majors… and I’m just out of luck. That’s fine, it’s their loss.
As for the other, I can concede that. I do love math.</p>