Oxford PPE vs. Georgetown SFS vs. Amherst Poli Sci + Econ

College Search & Selection
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I’m between these schools to commit to currently. Eventual goal is either consulting/finance, political research at an NGO (foreign policy-focused), or working on the Hill. I’m so, so grateful for all of these choices—but now I can’t choose!

Oxford PPE:

Pros:

  • One of the most prestigious degrees in the world—PPE is a brand
  • Collegiate system—already pretty attached to St. Catz
  • Singles + private bathrooms later on. Dorms are clean and nice.
  • Tutorials! I’d love to have the opportunity to learn in such an intimate setting.
  • Experience of a lifetime—I might never have the opportunity to learn in such a different atmosphere again
  • Passionate, smart, dedicated students. It would hurt to leave the Oxford Discord behind. I’ve loved effectively everyone I’ve come across there, even though I know that virtual friends don’t always equal friends in person.
  • College balls/formals! So fairytale-like.
  • All the history….getting to study in the BODLEIAN LIBRARY and walk the same grounds as people did in the 11th century.
  • The actual city surrounding Oxford is wonderful. So many boba places; certainly not lacking in culture. Lots of places to shop too.
  • When again will I ever have the opportunity to literally travel Europe between terms?
  • The Oxford Union! I’d love to join it. Other clubs to join: Oxford MUN, Oxford Consulting Group
  • So wonderfully British. College teas sound amazing. And people play croquet??
  • College merchandise….so wonderful. I want that Catz puffer jacket.
  • An Oxford degree opens doors. It’s true; everyone around the world knows Oxford.
  • Cheaper, even though cost isn’t a big factor here.

Cons:

  • Very far from home. What if I get really, really homesick? No drive home for the weekend here. Or what if a disaster happens?
  • The weather is also very British. Quite gloomy, and it rains a lot.
  • Restrictive curriculum. What if I find I don’t love PPE as much as I thought I would? I can’t change my course very easily at all. Though there’s a language center, I won’t be taking Turkish.
  • Coronavirus concerns—what if I’m not able to obtain a visa in time? Would I be up for spending my first term online? (Though this might be a concern for any college, honestly.)
  • Terms are VERY short. 8 weeks each—material is packed in, and I might feel constantly stressed/overwhelmed with the material, plus all the extracurricular commitments, searching for internships, a social life, and like, sleeping.
  • Might be a bit difficult to find internships, and I’d also have to start finding one sooner, given that it’s only three years instead of four.
  • Culture shock. Although Americans are said to not feel out of place, I’m also a student of color, and though Oxford has its fair share of East Asian students, most are Singaporean internationals/Chinese internationals—I’m unsure as to how closely I’d be able to identify with them. Adjusting to college is already a big challenge.
  • I don’t drink, and I don’t plan to either—and it seems like drinking is quite a large part of British culture. Most kids do drink, and going to the pub is a regular event.
  • I miss out on all the aspects of college as we know it in America—no tailgates, frat parties, or any of that. Even though the second isn’t a big factor, I do like school spirit, and though Oxford has a storied rivalry with Cambridge, I’m not sure if that’s the same thing.

Georgetown SFS (International Economics)

Pros:

  • I’ve stayed at Georgetown before. The campus, though it’s not Oxford, is absolutely beautiful. I love Healy Hall; I love the wide gates; I love the bridge that overlooks the river.
  • MUCH better weather. Although D.C. isn’t California, it’s warmer than N.J., where I live now. No puffer jackets here.
  • Georgetown SFS, though it’s not Oxford PPE, is still a force to reckon with in the world of IR. It’s only ranked below Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, and actually ahead of Yale and the other Ivies—not bad peers to have.
  • It’d be quite wonderful to be surrounded by other political junkies 24/7.
  • Georgetown’s very pre-professional, and this shows in its career outcomes. Its data for careers out of Georgetown is very strong; SFS kids always do well.
  • AMAZING opportunities to take languages. Arabic, Russian, Turkish—you name it. Georgetown has all of it.
  • I could even intern during semesters. The location is unbeatable.
  • The town of Georgetown itself is very cute too. It’s got the restaurants and the shopping places, and there are a lot of food options, even if Leo’s isn’t always great. And, of course, there’s D.C., which has the free museums, all the food options, and the political culture.
  • My original dream school. Before Yale, which I got deferred from :(, there was Georgetown.
  • Georgetown’s core for SFS students is so cool. I’ve honestly wanted to take Map of the Modern World for ages. I’m also looking forward to compulsory theology—no, really. Learning about religion just seems so cool, especially since I’m agnostic.
  • Club culture is actually a plus for me. It’s pretty nice to be able to make friends just through clubs. Clubs to join: Consulting Club, Model UN, maybe debate? Definitely Chinese Students Association.
  • The opportunity to study abroad—maybe at Oxford as a visiting student so I get the best of both worlds? Maybe even somewhere else, like in Spain or Jordan!
  • Honestly, preppiness isn’t really a con for me. I’d like to have more peer pressure to dress up well for classes.

Cons:

  • The dorms are indeed hit-or-miss. Although georgetown.hotmess only showcases the worst of it, there will probably be rats at some point in my living quarters, according to students I spoke with. (Anecdotally, I saw no rats or bugs in my one week at Georgetown, though the bathrooms were a bit gross.)
  • The on-campus dining is also hit-or-miss, though apparently Leo’s is getting better with its options.
  • Doesn’t have quite the name of Oxford still.
  • Maybe a bit too pre-professional? I’m scared that I’ll get completely caught up in the rat race.

Amherst College (Political Science + Economics)

Pros:

  • THE OPEN CURRICULUM. NO REQUIREMENTS. I can take ANYTHING I like—everything’s ripe for exploring!
  • The small community means close student-professor relationships and contacts; the COLLEGE PRESIDENT knows everyone.
  • Close friendships as a result of the smallness.
  • One of the best liberal arts colleges in the U.S. Again, not Oxford, but employers will definitely know what Amherst is.
  • The Amherst-Williams rivalry sounds like a great time.
  • The town of Amherst is pretty small, but it’s cute! Great ice cream too.
  • Direct exchange with New College, Oxford. Also a growing exchange with Catz.
  • Good dorms and passable food.
  • Five College Consortium—I can take classes at ANY of the other colleges!
  • I can actually still take Turkish, which is pretty cool!
  • New England in the fall is absolutely beautiful.
  • Far enough from home to feel far, but close enough that I could be back in three to four hours if there was an emergency.

Cons:

  • I’m scared it’ll be TOO small, which is what my friend at Amherst struggled with her first semester. Will it feel like high school again? (9)
  • I’m scared it’ll be too isolated. No, it’s not Williams, but it’s definitely not Georgetown either—it’s not exactly in a city.
  • Econ seems to be much stronger at Amherst than Poli Sci is.
  • The student-athlete divide. I’ve heard that the campus is a bit cliquey.
  • A few recent incidents of racism worry me.
  • Clubs/student associations are far more casual; I'd like them to be more serious.
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Oxford PPE is the easy answer. Earning an undergraduate degree in 3 years is a major plus if you anticipate going to graduate school.

Living abroad is an educational experience that is essential to your career goals. You will see the world from a different perspective and in a different light.

Attend graduate school in the US.

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These analyses should offer you perspective on the economics departments of your U.S. and U.K. choices:

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html

https://ideas.repec.org/top/old/1701/top.usecondept.html

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uk.html

As an opinion — beyond its notable top ten placement in the economics department ranking above — I think you might be under-regarding the political science offerings available at Amherst.

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How are the finances at each school?

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And

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.econdept.html

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They’re all prestigious, though more or less so to different people.

You listed out the pros and cons well. Now what do you value and what would you regret?

@Publisher, I don’t think there is an easy answer. She listed out the pros and cons of each and I do take the cons of Oxford seriously.

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A couple of thoughts on your concerns about Oxford.

School spirit: There is a very active rivalry between colleges, expressed to a large degree through sports, especially rowing (you’ll see lots of chalk on the walls in most colleges celebrating the crews who won oars in the bumps). Most UK students don’t have anything like the same depth of involvement in sports as US students (and aren’t selected for talent in it), so college sports are great to get involved with completely from scratch (90%+ of rowers won’t have done it before) and make friends. My number 1 piece of advice would be to get involved with a college sports club in your first term. Don’t just think “OMG I’ll have so much work to do that I can’t possible take on something like rowing at 6am in the morning”. Start doing something at the beginning - its always better to drop it or scale it down later than find after the first year on that you haven’t got involved in enough social activities to take your mind off the work. There was an Oxford PPE student on here last fall who felt after the first year that he hadn’t fit in (albeit not at a somewhat more egalitarian college like Catz) and wondered about transferring back to the US as a result, though I guess he stuck it out. See http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/transfer-students/2154109-going-from-oxford-back-to-us-for-finishing-bachelors-what-econ-programs-should-i-apply.html#latest for his thread.

Drinking: Yes, its a big part of British and college culture. You’ll almost always be offered sherry or wine at college organized welcome events. But the college bars, which are a big part of the social scene, have got a lot more inclusive since I was there - now they serve nice coffee, sandwiches etc, not just beer. And there are now more students who don’t drink for health or religious reasons, so I think this is less of a stigma than it used to be. I don’t think the typical US college kids are drinking far less, they are just running more of a risk of getting arrested for it.

Short terms: Definitely its very intense. Plan to spend a couple of weeks of each vacation catching up on all the work you didn’t quite keep on top of in the last few weeks of term. Be aware that your tutorial work doesn’t count towards grades and there isn’t the same number of midterms and final exams for each course in each term that you’d have in the US, which can be both good and bad. You know when the exams are and you prepare everything for them (British students are used to that because it’s how A levels work). So the key skill is to be able to revise very intensively for several weeks covering a huge amount of material for an exhausting set of lengthy exams that take place over just a few days (and write very fast - it would be quite typical to crank out four 10 page handwritten essays in a 3 hour exam). That’s where you need to take advantage of having time in the (relatively long) vacations between terms to catch up and make sure that you’ve learned everything properly (so you’ll remember what was covered in an October lecture when you have an exam on it in June).

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@Publisher A big thing is that I’d rather not go to grad school, or at least for a couple of years. I’d like to jump into the workforce ASAP, and I feel like going to university for only three years might leave me at a disadvantage when searching for internships.

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@Eeyore123 Oxford is cheaper, but we can luckily comfortably cover the cost of every school.

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OP: Even though grad school is not in your thoughts now, consider a masters at Cambridge, Tufts Fletcher School of Law & Diplomacy, Johns Hopkins international relations, or Columbia University School of Journalism.

Think how interesting your resume would read with Oxford & any one of these masters degrees.

My point is that in 4 years you can accomplish more if you do your undergraduate studies at Oxford PPE & graduate in 3 years.

Do you really think that a program in philosophy, politics, & economics is too restrictive over 3 years ?

If you need course flexibility, use your 4th year for a masters degree in another related discipline elsewhere.

The individual attention (tutorials) at Oxford University is an incredible opportunity.

If home-sickness is a concern, then do a PG year at Lawrenceville. Otherwise, you are entering the wrong field if home-sickness is an issue.

As far as pubs & drinking, I suspect that Georgetown & Amherst students also drink alcoholic beverages.

With respect to internships & job opportunities, Oxford students do well. The top employers want brain power, work ethic & personality–but primarily brain power & a strong, demonstrated work ethic.

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OK, let’s break this down in to categories of stuff that matters and stuff that probably won’t because of the hedonic treadmill.

Won’t matter because of hedonic treadmill:
Dorms/single.

Food (honestly, I barely remember if the food at my undergrad was good or bad; I think I remember it being bad).

Oxford’s history. Georgetown/Amherst cuteness/beauty.

College merchandise.

Weather (unless lack of sun causes you depression)

Culture shock/drinking (but you may regret missing the traditional American college experience)

Different but the same:
Oxford has intercollegiate rivalries and with Cambridge.
Amherst has a (LAC-sized) rivalry with Williams.
Georgetown has top-level basketball.

Clubs.

Do matter:
Tutorials and class size and the actual classes you take.

Ability to switch majors and take other classes (though PPE is more flexible than most British courses and allows you to choose classes from P or P or E).

Access to internships (Georgetown the obvious winner here) and finding a job.

Student body composition. Oxford probably one of the most intensely intellectual places in the world. Yes Georgetown is very pre-professional with a preppy rep. Amherst closer to Oxford but it’s not grad-school-like like Oxford. Yes, has a small tight student body (but Oxford has the same with its colleges) Honestly, to me, this would matter most. Which group of students do you see yourself wanting to be with most?

You may get the chance to study at Oxbridge again (on study abroad or a master’s). You won’t be able to attend a LAC after undergrad. (“When again will I ever have the opportunity to literally travel Europe between terms” If you go to the UK/Europe for a master’s).

City (including the museums) vs. college town (one dominated by a historic uni, one by a different and gigantic state school).

Americans tend to be more attached to their alma mater than Brits when it comes to a strong alumni network. Amherst probably leads in that respect but obviously a smaller (but mighty) network. SFS network would be very good; in fact, probably the most professionally helpful.

Reputation across the world (Oxford obviously leads; top LACs are becoming a bit more known outside the US but their prestige is still very concentrated in the US.

Distance from home. Country (obviously an issue during a pandemic; actually, if the current pandemic drags out 18 months, might you not even be allowed to attend uni in the UK? It’s a risk)

Costs.

I noticed that you didn’t touch on an aspect of Oxford that differs from the American college experience of continuous assessment and will matter:
Everything comes down to big tests at the end of the year. In fact, I believe your final mark for your undergraduate career (First, 2:1, etc.) comes down to solely tests (or papers) your final year (@Twoin18, please correct me if I’m wrong). Obviously, the stress may be intense for some. You would be use to the continuous assessment style and GPA at the 2 American colleges.

Matters (but to me, less):
Traditions like balls and stuff. Pretty certain Amherst also has traditions. Georgetown too.

You may regret missing the traditional American undergrad college experience. Then again, you may not.

So what are your thoughts on the stuff that matters?

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@PurpleTitan Yes, no one ever mentions how they did in Prelims after they have graduated (most people don’t know what a “double first” actually is, they assume it’s some form of double major). So it’s all down to how you do in your finals in the third year, when you have to spend basically the entire last term holed up in your room revising (or the library, though really that’s unnecessary unless there’s a heatwave and you need the aircon, since everyone has a single). Some courses offer the option to submit a project/thesis etc for a very modest percentage of the grade, but the exam is all important.

I agree that the pre-professional vs academic vibe is a hugely important difference and Georgetown vs Oxford are at completely opposite ends of this spectrum. Whereas in the US I see far more people (including his friends) taking notice of my S’s internship than his GPA, in the UK I’ve always felt it was the opposite way round (I recall for example my nephew in the UK recently characterizing his overachieving friend as “got a first from X” rather than “got a great job with Y”). I mentioned similar things before in the thread I linked to above, about how our college magazine is always about winning Nobel Prizes not about business achievements.

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@Twoin18, yes, I’ve noticed the difference between the UK and US. Because a First from a good British uni is still quite difficult to achieve, it’s remarkable in the UK (a 2:1 is pretty much required for any good job or grad school, however, and most students at the top UK unis get those these days).

Because of grade inflation and wildly different grading standards across departments, profs, colleges in the US, GPA is almost meaningless. It’s not as extreme as Japan (where nothing academic you do or learn in undergrad actually matters–as companies figure they will train you for your lifetime career with them, solely where you got in to and maybe your club/circle activities, so Japanese undergrads pretty much just party,participate in clubs, and their participate in the Japanese undergrad hiring rituals; it’s like their 4-year rumspringa between the grind of constant study before college to get in to a good uni and the soul-sucking salaryman drone existence for those lucky enough to land one of those positions), but Americans are more . . . pragmatic, in a sense. A strong recommendation from a respected Prof signals to a PhD committee that you have potential in a field. Same with an internship with a prestigious company to hiring managers. In fact, the prestige industries (management consulting, IB, etc.) tend to fill many of their full-time slots from their ranks of interns.

I believe all the good English unis get outside profs from other good English unis to set the test questions and marking guidelines for the tests that determine everything at the end of undergrad, so there is more standardization there.

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I’d say Georgetown, purely for the access to internships on the Hill, reputation in the world of politics. Oxford definitely is up there, but you sound like you wouldn’t enjoy many of the cultural aspects of it. Which college did you receive an offer from? Stats?

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@neen00 i actually ended up choosing stanford! i got an offer from st catz @ oxford, though. i should have some stats in past posts, iirc?

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@spelledwithak Congratulations!! That will be amazing!

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@neen00 thank you!