<p>My son was accepted at Christ Church for Engineering Science 4years and also at Princeton University. Any comments to help him decide.</p>
<p>How does he feel about cities. Oxford is much more urban than Princeton. Princeton is an amazing place and is in a much quieter town. Princeton is a lot like Cambridge, Oxford is more like Harvard.</p>
<p>I thought I’ve already replied to this thread but maybe not. I think cost wise, Oxford might be cheaper than Princeton because its’ 3-year. I checked the tuition it seems also cheaper per year. I posed this question to D2 and she said she would pick Oxford duh( as it’s a no brainer).</p>
<p>He’s fine with Oxford because of Christ Church’s meadow. It gets rural pretty quick outside of town…</p>
<p>Two great, but very different options. DrGoogle’s financial assessment is not quite right because, as you stated, unlike most courses at Oxford the Engineering Science program is four years rather than three. The upside is that it results in a Master’s degree rather than a Bachelor’s. Beyond the cultural differences of the locations, what your son has to answer for himself is what type of college experience he wants. In the British system he will only be taking classes that apply to his major. At Princeton he will also take the broader liberal arts courses that are the norm of the US system. Would he feel like he is missing out by not taking those classes or that he has dodged a bullet?</p>
<p>I love Oxford the town, but don’t know much about going to school there especially in engineering which I suspect might be different from a regular Oxford degree, but I believe Princeton would require taking courses outside of engineering and Oxford probably does not.</p>
<p>My older son would have far preferred not having to take gen ed courses. Of course he got essentially a British education by going to Carnegie Mellon where their AP policies allowed him to get out of almost all the requirements. He took one semester of World History and a writing course. Everything else was related to his major (comp sci) or his minor (physics).</p>
<p>Where does he hope to live in the future? Even if he changes his mind subsequently, if he has a preference at this point, for undergraduate work, I’d suggest studying in the country where he eventually plans to live the majority of the time.</p>
<p>The ability to get a masters in 4 years, and at a much lower cost per year than US schools, might make Oxford the better choice if finances come into play. 4 years of $50k US undergrad plus the money and time for grad school to get a masters is a lottt more than just 4 years at around half that cost to get the masters. However, if money and time to degree don’t matter, then maybe Oxford isn’t the best choice. Definitely take into account what the factors and priorities of both your son and you as a parent are.</p>
<p>As well as considering the subjects he wants to study in terms of focussing only on engineering or have a broader liberal arts education, he should also consider how he likes to study. </p>
<p>It is my impression, having completed my u/g degree in the US and now studying at Oxford (I’m not so familiar with how things work in engineering, it might be a little different as it has a lab-based component), that at Oxford you are expected to take control of your own learning a lot more. Generally, no-one checks if you attend lectures, as they are not usually compulsory. For tutorials, you are expected to have prepared, either through doing an assignment or reading, etc, and the focus of the tutorial is very much on what the students are saying, with the tutor guiding the discussion and asking questions, not telling you information that you need to learn. I find the UK system focusses much less than the US system on learning facts and knowing the right answers, and much more on discussing ideas and thinking critically. In the subjects I am familiar with, if you were to get 70% on an essay or exam, that would a first (basically an A).</p>
<p>There is very little continuous assessment, no quizzes and tests as you go along, a few essays, write-ups, etc. Most of your grade is based on how you perform on yearly exams, and in particular the finals at the end of your final year. </p>
<p>The time spent in class is quite small compared to the amount of work you are expected to do overall (again, this might be different for engineering), but you are expected to work hard on your own. According to my college handbook, undergraduates should expect to spend 40 hours per week studying (in and out of class) during term time and 30 hours per week in vacations (although I don’t have the impression many do study for this number of hours!). It says that you should not take term-time employment as well, unless it is for minimal hours and you discuss it with your tutor first.</p>
<p>The Oxford system suits some people very well. I think it requires a higher level of self-motivation and self-management than is required by the US system where you are much more guided through things in little steps. If you are someone who is able to manage their time very well and wont put off doing things because no-one is checking you do them, or alternatively if you are someone who struggles to motivate themselves for small tests but can go all out for a big exam, then it is a good system.</p>
<p>What does he plan to do after graduation? Where does he plan to work?</p>
<p>If you have any specific questions about Oxford, or how it compares to the US, I would be happy to try to answer them (though I don’t know much about the engineering scene!)</p>
<p>As I understand, an Oxford undergraduate degree is a BA. Three years after graduation, if you have not been convicted of a serious crime, they will give you an MA certificate. So essentially the base undergraduate degree will be MA. An employer (one who knows anything) would not consider it to be a graduate degree.</p>
<p>You can do that, sorghum, but I think Beltnsuspenders son is planning to study for an MEng. </p>
<p>In the UK, although most undergraduate degrees last for 3 years and result in a BA or BSc, in STEM subjects you can do an MEng (or MPhys, MChem, etc) which is a four year degree and is like doing a Bachelors degree followed by a Masters degree but all in one course. I’m not sure if it’s considered as having a postgraduate degree, but it’s a higher qualification than just a BSc.</p>
<p>Listen to what tli83 has said and discuss with your son. The British system of teaching is different from the US, especially in how ‘hands off’ it is. Depending upon HS experience and student’s preference/way of studying, this can come as a big shock. I think this would be multiplied at Oxford, especially as the terms are so short as well (3 x 8 week terms I think…someone correct me if I’m wrong). There was a poster last year who discussed how her son was planning to transfer back to the US from St Andrews as he was struggling to cope with the style of teaching and ‘hands off’, sink-or-swim approach - nothing to do with abilty, just a very different approach. </p>
<p>Remember that UK students have been prepped for this since high school. The St Andrews poster was also surprised at the advanced level the material covered in biology (I think). Again, this reflects the UK system where students narrow down and focus on 4-5 subjects in the equivalent of jr/sr year at HS, meaning that more material is covered before they even get to university. I would perhaps consider the level of your son’s HS preparation in math and physics as although I assume he has APs in calc and physics in order to be admitted to Oxford, has he actually covered the same material to the same depth as his fellow students have? Plenty of US students thrive in the UK system, and at Oxford, however, so these are just some questions to consider</p>
<p>There is the UK equivalent of this site called the student room where you may get perspectives on Oxford engineering from British and/or current students. There is also a poster called cupcake who studied undergraduate science at Oxford or Cambridge who would be a good person to PM about the system and way of teaching…</p>
<p>I know someone who long ago did the 4-year BA in biochemistry at Oxford. After a few years it was automatically (as were all 3 year BA degrees) upgraded to an MA.</p>
<p>That 4-year undergraduate biochemistry degree is now called MBiochem (a rather inelegant and vocational sounding name).</p>
<p>The MEng, in other words, like the MBiochem, is an undergraduate degree. </p>
<p>But especially as you go up the industry-management ladder, fewer and fewer people will know or care - they will just think it sounds impressive.</p>
<p>Scotland also had an undergraduate MA system - I know someone (a long time ago) who got a tenure-track faculty position in Canada with only a Scottish MA. Those were the days when a PhD was not absolutely necessary, but a real postgraduate master degree certainly was.</p>
<p>Where does your S plan to work after graduation? </p>
<p>Are there any licensing difficulties in working as an engineer in the US if you hold a foreign degree? I recall reading that there are engineering accredited programs at US colleges (don’t remember the name of the organization that does the accrediting - could it be ABET?)
and some that are not, but don’t know how it affects licensing or job prospects.</p>
<p>If your S attends school in the US, summer internships/research are possibilities. In the Oxford system, is there an opportunity for that kind of experience during breaks or the regular term?</p>
<p>Just some questions I would look into before deciding.</p>
<p>My daughter spent two years of graduate school at Oxford. tli83 covers their system very well. D loved every moment of it, both academic and social. She went to college in the US and felt that while Oxford’s system worked extremely well for her graduate studies she benefited from the more structured US system as an undergrad.</p>
<p>FYI, US medical schools want at least part of an applicant’s undergraduate education coming from an accredited school in the US. If your son has thoughts of med school he needs to explore this before deciding on Oxford. Under those circumstances I would think that Princeton is the better choice as he will have no issues with his transcript and will also have pre-med advising as it applies to US admissions.</p>
<p>Know nothing about engineering. I have a degree from Oxford. My d. is a graduate student and preceptor at Princeton.</p>
<p>“Education” at both will be fine, and the differences are already well-described. But the big differences are in student experience. At Oxford, the bulk of what I would call education happens outside the classroom, outside assignments, and outside the curricula. It is the world center of amateur clubs and societies, from clubs for ancient Greek coins to genetic engineering. They all operate independently, virtually without any official university support, but they are what turn Oxford students into leaders. The various engineering societies will be inviting their own guest lecturers and holding dinners with industry leaders from around the world, all put together by members of the society. It teaches students to be “go-getters”, results in students mixing early and often with those in the field they intend to be part of, and builds independent initiative. Nothing I have ever seen in education in the U.S. (I was at Williams and University of Chicago) even comes close.</p>
<p>It’s easy to say that there is less handholding, less checking on assignments, no quizzes, etc., but what is really important is what takes their place. Teaching is “hands off”; learnng is extraordinarily “hands on”.</p>