My daughter strongly prefers a large school, definitely not a <3000 student LAC. The larger PASSHE schools seem to be the best options due to the likelihood of full Pell plus PHEAA grants, but my daughter of course would prefer to go out of state (grass is greener anywhere but home state syndrome), preferably to the south rather than the north. She will probably be able to improve her SAT score in October, and is also taking the ACT in September, but it is highly unlikely that she will qualify for her “dream school” Alabama’s full tuition scholarship, which would require a 290 point SAT jump! I’ve already found a few MS and LA “directionals” where she could probably get an out of state tuition waiver and/or merit aid, but would appreciate any additional suggestions. She has no interest in commuting, and would probably go to any of the PASSHE schools if the only other options were the closest Penn State branch campus or community college. Unfortunately, we are one of the less wealthy families in a rather affluent suburb, so my daughter has picked up something of an entitlement mentality and a distorted sense of affordability. Despite the FAFSA EFC, we will be able to contribute ≥$5000 a year from my savings, a small 529, and her work earnings next summer.
Have you run the net price calculators on the state-related schools (PSU, Pitt, Temple) and the PASSHE schools? Do the numbers come out affordable? Pennsylvania has a poor reputation for college affordability, even for Pennsylvania residents.
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/ may have some ideas (but verify on school web sites). She seems to be a few points short of the full tuition scholarships at some schools like Tuskegee, Troy, Florida A&M, NC Central, Prairie View A&M.
@ucbalumnus Yes, I’ve run the NPCs for dozens of schools. The PASSHE schools are relatively affordable, the state-related schools (PSU, Pitt, Temple) are not. Although, as an Asian adoptee, she’d appreciate some diversity, I don’t think she’d be comfortable at an HBCU (I realize Troy is not in that category).
Does she have any idea what she’d like to study, @kidzncatz?
@MYOS1634, any ideas?
Honestly, if she wants to go oos, she will have to consider smaller schools and spend a lot of time prepping for the October sat.
There are no large oos schools that will offer full tuition and room to a student with her test scores. :s
Her GPA is good and if she gets her scores up OleMiss may be a possibility.
But oos directionals won’t cost $5,000 without a lot of merit, and merit is earned through high scores.
Has she run NPC 's herself?
Does she understand cost constraints?
@MYOS1634 Yes, she is aware of cost constraints and learned how to run NPCs in a school SAT-prep class. I told her not to even consider schools with a net cost over $15000. Under that amount is probably doable as long as she is willing to take out maximum Direct loans and to save most of the money she earns from her jobs from now on. I’m not sure why she continues to fixate on OOS publics. I think she realizes deep down that she’ll probably end up at a PASSHE school but doesn’t want to give up her fantasies.
It seems to be common for rising college students to want to go OOS. It’s just a different place. Kids from CA want to go out of CA and vice versa. Good thing you’ve set your limits ahead of time.
OP, are you counting student and Plus loans as affordable? Even at the branch campuses the PSU NPC comes up all loans even for a $0 EFC.
We’re not really considering PSU branch campuses, or main campus for that matter. I’m well aware of PSU’s notoriously poor financial aid. And PLUS or any other parent loans are not happening. I’m quite conservative financially . My home is paid off and I have no credit card balances. I manage by not spending on luxuries. I’m fine with that; my daughter is not. A complicating factor is that my daughter knows that her 93-year-old grandmother (my mother) could afford to contribute to a more expensive school. However, my mother needs to conserve her money to pay for her nursing home costs of over $11000 a month. My daughter envies her friends with richer, younger, more extravagant parents.
You could let her apply for a ranch campus in case something happens.
But, roughly speaking, if she wants to attend an oos college, she’ll have to look at private colleges much smaller than what she wants.
You can run the NPC on new college Florida, usc Aiken, and Suny geneseo but I’m not sure she’s competitive for merit there , and ncf has a specific 'alternative ’ culture one needs to be aware of.
Have you told her that the “rich grandmother” is not so rich after all, due to the nursing home costs?
Perhaps she can read these books:
http://www.thomasjstanley.com/publication/the-millionaire-next-door/
http://www.thomasjstanley.com/publication/stop-acting-rich/
I don’t know your daughter’s inherent capabilities and whether or not cramming like mad for the SATs will make any difference whatsoever, but if her dream is to go OOS, I’d tell her that she’s free to apply to Bama and Ole Miss (and any others that fit the bill–no pun intended!) IF she can score high enough to receive full tuition. It will likely require a full four-year scholarship to make the COA <$15k/yr, once you factor in travel costs, etc.
Honestly, West Chester sounds like a great fit for her. I have a lot of far wealthier friends (including several on the Main Line) who, after sending their older kids to Penn State and expensive elite privates, told their younger kids they’d be attending West Chester or one of the other PASSHE schools unless they had a VERY good reason not to–as in those schools don’t offer the desired major.
West Chester has gotten surprisingly competitive in recent years as many families of all income levels balk at the high price of Penn State and Pitt, so if she’s admitted, she should feel quite satisfied with herself.
If your daughter’s grandmother needs to budget to afford the $11k/month nursing home, then she can’t afford to help pay for college. I’d give your daughter a firm budget now and make it clear that it won’t be supplemented by her grandmother so she can start focusing on affordable options.
How did they manage the probable perceived unfairness of spending a lot for the older kid but less for the younger kid, particularly if the younger kid had similar or better high school academic performance than the older kid?
Have her take BOTH the SAT and ACT…she may do better on one over the other.
I would strongly suggest avoiding true OOS directionals because she’d be lonely on nights/weekends as many students will go home or be commuters.
Once she has final stats, we can better advise.
Unless granny is very wealthy, the fact that she’s paying over $100k per year for her nursing care, no one can count on help.
If granny is very wealthy and can afford to contribute - say $10k-20k per year without hurting her ability to pay for her continued care, that needs to known now…either way…so DD isn’t counting on something that won’t happen…or isn’t exaggerating the amount granny would pay.
@LucieTheLakie (Sorry I don’t know how to do the quote thing)
“I don’t know your daughter’s inherent capabilities and whether or not cramming like mad for the SATs will make any difference whatsoever, but if her dream is to go OOS, I’d tell her that she’s free to apply to Bama and Ole Miss (and any others that fit the bill–no pun intended!) IF she can score high enough to receive full tuition. It will likely require a full four-year scholarship to make the COA <$15k/yr, once you factor in travel costs, etc.”
That’s exactly what I told her. I told her I’d pay for the application fee only if she scores high enough for a full tuition scholarship. If she wants to waste her money applying to a school she won’t be able to attend, I really can’t stop her. (She has a job and a debit card).
“Honestly, West Chester sounds like a great fit for her.”
I agree, and I think she’s beginning to realize that it will be the best choice she has in a larger school. Fortunately, according to Naviance, most of the kids from our high school that have applied recently to West Chester with similar stats have been accepted (except for some kids she knows that were rejected for nursing) but with the increasing selectivity, it is definitely a match (maybe even a low reach), not a safety.
@austinmshauri
“I’d give your daughter a firm budget now and make it clear that it won’t be supplemented by her grandmother so she can start focusing on affordable options”
I plan to insist that she sit down with me (she’ll balk and try to avoid the conversation), tell her exactly how much I can pay, then run some NPCs with her to show that she’s got to work within these parameters. I’ve already told her that I don’t want her asking her grandmother, who already put some money in a 529 for her, for additional funds.
If your budget is $5,000 how can she afford a dream school best case that will cost $15,000 assuming a 290 point rise in SAT score to qualify for a full tuition scholarship?
Honestly, @ucbalumnus? I don’t think they cared.
In one case, the youngest was MUCH younger than the three older siblings. The parents paid for one to attend Penn State and another to go to Vanderbilt (and this was back when none of these schools cost what they do now), and the father, who was nearing retirement, just didn’t feel, in retrospect, that any kid needed that expensive an education to do what these two chose to do professionally (teach elementary school and become a software developer). (One of their kids had some mental health issues, and I’m not sure he ever went to college.)
The other family just knew they couldn’t afford to pay for their last kid (also about a decade younger than his oldest sibling) what they’d spent on the other two. They may have tried to be more creative if the youngest had a specific goal in mind, but he didn’t score high enough to attract any big merit awards and was fairly ambivalent about what he wanted to study, so they limited his choices. I don’t think he objected, mind you. Their oldest was determined to go to a specific private and was willing to take out the loans. I know her parents worried the whole time she’d live to regret her decision, but she’s a real go-getter and it seems to be working out okay for her career-wise. Her brothers are not nearly as ambitious, I don’t think. (The middle one went to art school.)
These are the two families I know well. I don’t ask my neighbors questions like that. Frankly, they could ask the same thing of me. We’ve spent far more on our older son’s education than his younger brother’s, but a lot of that has to do with innate ability and proven work ethic. It’s not always possible to do for one what you do for the other.
I also think a lot of families reassess after one or two kids. I was the youngest of four. No way I got all the things my older siblings got. The money wasn’t there and the priorities had changed. That’s life.
@ClarinetDad16 She will also be eligible for a full Pell grant. That (probably around $5850 for 2017-18) plus up to $5500 Direct loan (freshman year), if needed, plus $3000 from the 529 plus some of her work earnings from this school year and next summer (she earned >$6000 in 2015), plus $2000-4000 from my savings should give her plenty for room and board, transportation, books, and personal expenses.
Another Pennsylvania thread speaking to us! My daughter is in a similar situation going into senior year this year and would like something a little larger than a small LAC school. I don’t understand how the “average debt” calculations are being performed (cant find a great site to compare - many are outdated), but it seems that the PASSHE average debts are always a couple of thousand above PA LACs. Either everyone at the LACs are getting huge merit awards, or the students are generally coming from wealthier families, hard to tell. I would love to hear if there are other PA schools you are considering. LaSalle, U of Scranton or St. Joe’s, while having high sticker prices, seem to give merit.