PA state school road trip! If you're familiar with PASSHE schools, your input is especially welcome!

College Search & Selection
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<p>So this week is spring break, and my daughter and I visited a few PA colleges. We're keeping her college selections to PA for two reasons - budget, and the fact that she's had some rough times in high school and will likely send up with @ 2.9 gpa. Certainly not enough to qualify for merit aid. She is thinking of majoring in Psychology, and is looking for a decently sized campus, with a town nearby and the whole "campus experience."</p>

<p>One thing that unfortunately has solidified my daughter's idea of what a college should be is that her dad and I are Penn State alum. We've visited there more summers than not for their Arts Festival. So the gorgeous, huge campus, school spirit, and convenient, pretty college town create a high standard for "what college should be" that PA state directionals just aren't going to match.</p>

<p>Our first stop was Shippensburg. I knew hardly anything about it, and I ended up really impressed. They really seem to reach out to students and offer a lot of guidance, activities, etc. Their dorms are almost all new and very nice - and it's very likely she could have a dorm room all four years, which she would like. They had about 6700 students (about the smallest my daughter would consider). I got a really good feeling about the place. However, although my daughter liked it, she wasn't ultra enthusuistic - the campus isn't bad but it's nothing special, and the town doesn't have much to offer.</p>

<p>Next stop was the Altoona branch campus of Penn State (@4000 students). This branch has dorms and is only 40 minutes from State College. It's one of the more popular choices among the branches. The campus was cute, although I thought Shippensburg was generally in better shape. My daughter loved it - but I think mainly because it was Penn State and she knew she'd get to go to the main campus after two years. One thing that concerned me is that it looks like very few sophomores get a dorm room. And it looks like you'd need a car for most off campus housing. The branch campuses are only slighty cheaper than main - we cannot afford to get her a car on top of that. Plus, I know a sense of college community is important to her. It would be a challenge to live in a dorm your first year, have to find an apt the second year, then transfer up to the main campus for the next two years, and make arrangements for housing there. I know how great it was to go to PSU main as a freshman - you start in the dorms and are immediately connected to so many instant friends and activities. I don't know how easy it would be to come up as a junior, knowing no one except friends from your branch campus. My daughter is shy, and definitely not ready (yet) for some of the responsibilities of finding an apt, etc. As much as I love PSU, I'm not sure if the 2+2 plan would be best for her. I'm also concerned that a branch campus would be a suitcase/commuter school and that is something we're definitely trying to avoid.</p>

<p>Next stop was Kutztown. Picked because we heard it had a pretty campus and 10,000 students. My daughter fell head over heels in love. Before the tour even started. The town, the campus, just had the right feel for her. </p>

<p>You may be wondering why there is so much emphasis on feel vs. academics. Honestly, I'm not sure how much difference there is between Psychology programs at different PA state schools. I did ask questions about internships, academic advising, etc. It's hard to tell if one is better than another vs. a tour guide just doing a better job of explaining. </p>

<p>We will also be going to Bloomsburg next weekend, and at some point will visit West Chester and East Stroudsburg. If anyone is familiar with PA state schools, I'd love your feedback on the places we've seen, if there are others you think are worth checking out, and if you know if any of these places are suitcase schools, please let me know. She really wants to avoid that. </p>

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<p>I have the same questions about the passhe schools! Have you received any feedback?</p>

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<p>The Behrend college is supposedly the most “like a real campus” (with fewer commuters) than the other branch campuses.
Most PASSHE schools are commuter schools, except for Mansfield because it’s far from anything. But Mansfield really isn’t great academically, it’s barely above a community college on that account.
West Chester has the reputation of being the strongest PASSHE academically.
Don’t forget to apply to a bunch of private colleges after running the NPCs - Washington&Jefferson, Juniata, Eastern, Messiah, UScranton… would all admit a B/B- minus student. While I don’t know whether they could match the PASSHE schools for price, the learning conditions would be much better because the PASSHE schools have had very severe budgets cuts several times in the past couple years. So if the NPCs indicate some of these colleges are doable financially, include them on the list.</p>

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<p>Seems like many of the PSU branch campuses are like expensive community colleges.</p>

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“Sans Serif” , I would love to hear any updates on your look into the PASSHE schools? It Kutztown still preferred? Any others? Thanks!

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She decided on Kutztown and this is her first semester. However, it’s been a very tough semester for several reasons. It’s hard to say whether it would have been any different at her other choices. She has been thinking of transferring to the local PSU campus and then going to the main campus junior year. I think she may have very well been happier at the PSU Altoona campus to begin with (that’s not our local branch, but Altoona has dorms). But it wasn’t my decision to make. I just want her to make the decision that’s right for her.

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@ucbalumnus The community colleges in PA do not have articulation agreements with University Park, so no guarantee that credits transfer. There are agreements between CC’s and the branch campuses. So you could do a year at CC, then a year at a branch, then move to University Park. I am guessing that if you want to study in a competitive major like engineering which has some controls on entry to the major, your best bet is the branch campus rather than the CC. I agree, it’s expensive to attend the branch campus compared to a CC. It is clearly not in the university’s best interest to make it easier to transfer from a CC directly to University Park, though I’m sure many do take that path.

OP- I spent all four years at University Park. The students I knew who came in junior year had no problems assimilating. Academically, they generally did very well. They enjoyed the smaller classes and personal attention of the branch campuses (compared to the large lectures I experienced my first two years). Some were top students who chose to commute to save money.

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Yeah, my brother hated PSU and I think he convinced her not to go. Which annoys me, because it’s fine that he didn’t like it – but he shouldn’t expect everyone to agree with him. I don’t mind that she chose another university – if it was really HER choice, for HER reasons, not someone else’s. I think her starting at Altoona (4000 students) and then going to Univ. Park her last two years would have been great. But what 18 year old listens to her mom???

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@sansSerif: Can you detail the problems a bit?
I’m sure the issue PASSHE vs. branch campus is a common one for PA parents. KNowing about the issues may help a lot of parents and studens from PA.

Overall, the PA system is designed so that CC students transfer into the PASSHE schools, and branch campus students “proceed” into PSU UP (or one of the branches with 4-year degrees such as Erie - it’s not a transfer since it’s guaranteed based on certain grades). So, yes, the PSU branch campuses are exactly like the CA CC’s for CSUs and UCs, except MUCH more expensive.
Few PA CCs would prepare for anything like engineering. Even most PASSHE schools don’t have the classes.

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For comparison, in California, the community colleges cost about $1,380 per year (30 credits at $46 per credit) for in-state tuition, plus books and whatever living expenses, which are smaller for those who can continue living with their parents than those who live on their own.

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@MYOS1634 – It’s not a problem for everyone. For my daughter, I think the PSU branch may have been a better choice. If she could have gotten into the main campus her first year, that absolutely would have been the best choice and she would agree. We did a tour of many of the state schools. They are fine. They provide a good education. But their selection of majors, classes, electives, etc., are nowhere near as extensive. Their selection of clubs and activities are often less extensive. They tend to be commuter schools where a huge chunk of the student population goes home on weekends. They tend to be near either a very small town or no town at all – so if you don’t have a car, it’s hard to find much to do besides academics.

And here’s the weird part that you wouldn’t expect when you compare a huge state school with numerous campuses vs. a smaller state school. I actually think PSU does a much better job of welcoming freshmen and helping them adjust to college. My daughter has been hearing about the activities PSU Altoona scheduled for orientation week. I remember when I went to the main campus many years ago, there was an orientation week with a lot going on. By the time you started classes, you had opportunities to meet your floormates and many others. You had time to feel comfortable and get some questions answered. Also, the school spirit at Penn State attracts kids interested in that – interested in the sense of community and togetherness that is promoted. At Kutztown, they have an orientation day in the middle of the summer – but of course, you’re not meeting your floormates; you’re just getting eight hours of rules and information thrown at you – useful info but a lot all at once.

Her move-in day was a Saturday. Her first day of classes was Monday. I think that’s crazy. Her floor, her dorm had no activities. One meeting the first day, that was it. And she said that meeting was all about rules – nothing social. Her floor is not friendly or lively. And the place is dead on the weekends. Also, academically, I can see that at PSU she would have had a much more extensive choice of electives. And one more minor point – her dorm room at Kutztown is in worse shape and offers less space and storage than the basic freshman dorm I had at Penn State in 1978.

I know I’m emphasizing the social aspect, but if you’re going to live in a dorm, you want to have friends. You want to have activities and enjoy your life outside of studying. The studying part has also been a huge adjustment for her. But if she had other parts of college going better, I think it would have helped.

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Hello @SansSerif! Did she adjust during her second semester at Kutztown? We are heading into summer between junior and senior year, and time is ticking. Thanks!

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@Portercat – She left Kutztown after the first semester. We had a pretty hard time getting her to even finish that out. I think it was a combination of bad luck - crappy dorm, unfriendly hallmates and a roommate who literally partied every day, was barely there, and dropped out before Thanksgiving – and her just not being ready for the semi-adult responsibilities of college/dorms. She transferred to the local PSU campus for the spring, even though I know she really didn’t want to live at home. Her anxiety just took over in Spring semester, and she had to do a medical withdrawal. Thankfully, I was able to get a full tuition refund for the spring. Right now, she is working part-time, and the plan is for her to go back in the Spring on a part-time basis. But she has to change her approach in many ways if this is going to work.

Sometimes she regrets not finishing the year at Kutztown, and I wish she had. But on top of anxiety and depression, she is very, very stubborn. She cannot see that she repeats patterns that aren’t working for her. She doesn’t learn from mistakes. Right now, she has a handful of friends that she hangs out with – none of whom are going to college or with any real plans for their lives. She has no opportunity to meet people, she doesn’t date because the only guys her friends know are losers (and thankfully, she knows that). She’s not happy but she has no idea what to do.

And yes, she goes to therapy. And yes, she has tried several medications and not one has helped.

This was probably a much longer answer than you wanted … but the adjustment to college is just not automatic for many. For me, it was a wonderful time in my life and I loved every minute. My daughter is upset and frustrated that her anxiety is stopping her from doing the things she wants and needs to do.

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That’s tough, @SansSerif. Hugs to you and your DD. Once she gets one or two classes under her belt, and sees some success, I’m betting she gains a lot of self-confidence.

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She did okay during her first semester at Kutztown - she got an A in Freshman English and her teacher actually told her she should at least consider a minor in Writing. But she’s not interested. :confused: But she can’t handle math - not even the most basic classes, and she sure isn’t going to get a college degree without passing college algebra and intro to statistics. She can’t deal with having to do presentations in front of a class. She just isn’t very good at studying and retaining mass amounts of info for tests.

I don’t think everyone goes needs to go to (or should go to) college. But you then have to want to do something else - and what she wants to do (therapist or social work) requires not just a BA but a Masters. So we’re kind of up in the air right now. She sees people at her workplace working a dead end job at 30, stressed and underpaid (she works at a restaurant.). She doesn’t want that for her future.

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Can she get any of those math requirements out of the way at your local community college? I have a close friend who taught HS math for many years who’s now teaching a class at our local community college. She really bends over backwards to helps students like your daughter. She also tutors in math at our local Penn State branch campus. Again, she really works with kids who struggle with these quantitative subjects. She also tutors privately. Maybe a semester or two with a private tutor will help your DD gain some skill and confidence?

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And this is where her stubbornness comes in. The PSU campus provides a tutoring program especially for the intro math class she needs to take. Where you sign up at the beginning of the semester and they basically hold your hand through the whole thing. She didn’t sign up.

For some reason it is extremely difficult to get her to reach out for help. She is convinced she is hopeless with math and her anxiety takes over. She got high Cs in high school algebra – which isn’t great, but I would think that she could pass college algebra with the assistance of the tutoring program. It’s a conversation we’re going to have to have this summer. I was lucky to get a refund for the spring, but that’s a one-time thing. I’m not going to pay for classes that she has decided up front are impossible to pass and therefore doesn’t reach out for the help she needs.

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^ Penn State offers a math class online that meets BA requirements for quantitative (she will still have to take stats - does her math placement score allow her to register for basic stats ?) it’s something like Math of Money or Math and Citizenship. It only requires high school algebra 1 I think. It’s probably boost her confidence of she did well in that and there’s no presentation in front of the class since it’s online. :slight_smile:

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@MYOS1634 - Do you know the course number, by any chance? I looked with her through her choices in the spring and I don’t remember a class like that. There was Math 4, which is basically high school algebra, but I didn’t see anything else on that level.

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Both my parents went to IUP(dad for psych, mom for business) and they loved their time there! My brother(and my aunt and uncle went) goes to Edinboro which is a really good school for his progam but not a super nice place to most people even though he really likes it.