<p>Parents pay plenty more than 15K for exclusive private schools where the GC’s have access / connections to elite schools that are worlds beyond the typical overworked-public-school-GC-who-knows-her-state-schools-and-that’s-it. Parents pay plenty more for private sports coaching and flying a talented kid around the country to participate in tournaments, often with a parent accompanying (which was the case with my two nieces who were D1 athletes). I can’t get too worked up about the unfairness of it; life is unfair.</p>
<p>It’s just as “unfair” that your son has the free time (and perhaps a car / transportation?) to attend math team, science team and robotics team events, when other students have to forego those things to watch a younger sibling while the parent works, or to work and put the proceeds towards the family’s rent. You are privileged too; don’t forget that.</p>
<p>How is this for unfair…I compared D2’s current school’s navariance with her old NE navariance, and her current school’s average SAT for getting into top 20s is good 200 points lower. Of course we are now in an emerging country, not the good old USA. There is an upside in not living in the most competitive area of US. </p>
<p>We have a private counselor for D2 because we weren’t sure about the quality of college counseling at her new school. The counselor doesn’t tell D2 to do anything she doesn’t want to do. He suggests the kind of courses for D2 to take, ECs to participate in (she is a dancer, so she doesn’t have much time for anything else anyway). The biggest battle right now is he would like D2 to take the SAT again(but comparing her with her classmates, she has the highest scores so far), so she is not convinced. But it’s between her and the counselor now, not with me. </p>
<p>This counselor we are working with does have a team of people who used to work in the admission of some well known schools(they have a cute name for the team). Any time we have a question for the counselor, he would say, “let me consult the ABC team.” Now in our family, whenever we have a question, D2 would say, “let’s consult the ABC team.”</p>
<p>Having a counselor is making my life easier. I don’t think D2’s college process outcome is going to be that much different without one, I would just have to work harder.</p>
<p>Great responses here. Just adding that I see absolutely nothing unethical in hiring (or being) a paid admissions consultant. Of course it’s unethical for a consultant, parent, teacher, or anyone else to write a kid’s admission essays. We’re always arguing on CC about how much editing - or adult input of any kind - is too much for kids’ essays, but it’s obvious that actually writing them is way over wherever the line is.</p>
<p>Some parents just can’t shepherd their kids through the admissions process. Maybe they don’t have the knowledge; maybe they don’t have the time or inclination; maybe their parent-child relationship would suffer (you can love your kid and find he still drives you nuts, and vice versa); maybe they just want a professional involved in what’s clearly a very important decision. We didn’t hire a pro, and I enjoyed doing much of what they do as an amateur (still here though youngest kid is approaching the end of junior year in college). </p>
<p>The information is out there - but what’s the best way of making sure the kid gets it? As others have asked, is it fair that some kids have parents, or school counselors, who are willing to put much effort into the search process when other kids are strictly on their own? How do we make it fair for everyone?</p>
<p>DadWith2Sons, it may seem to you that the paid college consultant made all the difference in the successful applicant’s case, but you can’t know what the adcoms saw in her application. It isn’t even possible to really know that
<p>Why is it fair to pay for private college tuition, but not fair to pay for private consultant? Some people mow their own lawn, some people hire someone to do it and they get all those cool parallel lines. That’s the real world.</p>
<p>Do you think a kid from the family of “Joe the Plummer” can come up with the connections to get these amazing research done? Give me a break! I have personally asked a finalist a question on a topic that I know something about. She had no clue about what she is doing! And yet, she got into all top schools she is applying including Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. Without winning the ISTS, she would not have aced all these schools. One or two may be. Not all of them.</p>
<p>Wow. When D1, wife & myself started looking in '03, college counselors weren’t an option for us financially, and there weren’t THAT many of them around, especially in the Midwest. Remember, that book on Wesleyan U. “The Gatekeepers” had just been published. </p>
<p>So I got on CC, read a lot, and had my brother compile a video of D1’s EC’s in sports, show choir & music performance. Dutifully sent it off (a VHS tape–what’s the preferred medium these days?!) along with all the applications she had done. In hindsight it seems kind of funny & a little silly, given what a big business this has turned into. Did it help–who knows? Maybe it set her apart in that it gave the admin people a laugh, but she did get some pretty good merit $$ offered.</p>
<p>And kxc…no it’s not fair BUT if you & your kid do it the right way, you can sleep at night. I personally know some gaming/influence that has gone on at some very close State U.‘s, and these people act like they’re doing nothing at all wrong. All I can say to that is I hope there is karma for them. Just sayin’…</p>
<p>“CC has been my college counselor.”
Mine too. That, plus I paid attention when D1 went through the college admissions process, guided by her private school counselor.</p>
<p>But the thing is more this:
"But parents are often in real struggles with a developing teen who discounts the stupid parent. However, if a college coach or private school counselor (who is assigned the student freshman year and rolls him right out the door 4 years later all packaged to maximize that students attributes, which is a large part of what the privates offer) the parent has just “hired out” the difficult process of directing an emerging adult in the right direction. Waiting for the student to “get it’ 1/2 through JR. year is no longer an option- the ship has left by then.”</p>
<p>And to me, the biggest advantage would be this:</p>
<p>“But it’s between her and the counselor now, not with me.” </p>
<p>In our case, I think I know a reasonable amount by now. I told my son all along things he should be doing. He should be visiting schools, etc. Most of the time he just didn’t listen to me and do it. Maybe if we’d hired some 'expert" to tell him the same exact thing he would have listened to the “expert” and would be a better candidate now.</p>
<p>Also, with regard to certain detailed questions I really don’t have the same perspective someone who has been an adcom would have; I am just guessing whereas they would have a better sense. </p>
<p>This came up, for example, when my son decided to duck most challenging courses senior year, and he had his public school guidance counselor telling him that was just fine. It didn’t really sound so fine to me, my other 2 kids didn’t do that. But specific advice on this, with certainty, taking into account the likely grades he would get, which were also not the same as the other two kids- well I could only guess at the impact. I don’t have the experience of evaluating hundreds of applicants with all sorts of profiles. I would have liked to have had an “outside expert” to give an opinion on issues like this, when they came up.</p>
<p>No joke. Anyway, I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of hs science teachers have never even heard of the Intel Science Talent Search - much less be on hand to guide their interested students through it. Intel seems very limited to a core group of privileged high schoolers. </p>
<p>In my area, smart high schoolers can also look for internships at Argonne and Fermilab. Looks great on a resume, that’s for sure! But what does it take to be able to do an internship at those places, which are in the middle of nowhere? It takes a teenager who has a car at his or her complete disposal. That’s pretty privileged too. My teens don’t have that luxury to commandeer a family car for that amount of time.</p>
<p>Funny thing is that these likely letters state dead on that you WILL be accepted. These are preceded by phone calls, followed up with current student emails and then FA letters. It works for the schools too, because the earlier they send their LL, the more the student falls in love with that school. Then, it is the PARENT’s job to explain the “business end” of the admissions process (wait until ALL offers are in, visit, then decide).</p>
<p>Considering the race to develop competitive advantages at an early age, it should not surprise anyone that parents with means and contacts would not hesitate to use them to improve the chances of their children. However, should we really blame THEM for “playing the game” and select the right school district, befriending the right people, and in the end spending the necessary amount to make it all work? After all, how hard is it to resist grabbing the low hanging fruit provided by cozy relationships between researchers at SUNY and the large pool of well-heeled “train riding” candidates from Long Island? </p>
<p>On the other hand, it is up to the colleges and universities to maintain a system that should NOT reward academic farces such as the current version of the Intel and other competitions that are manipulated by a cottage industry that has lost track of all integrity. </p>
<p>As long as the admission officers remain oblivious to the BLATANT gamesmanship, you can expect people to react to the “alternative paths” to build up competitive packages. It is easy to understand how hard it is for adcoms to “catch” applicants who have received generous support from paid consultants; it is harder to understand how willing the schools remain to reward the results of competitions that give most objective observers the greatest pause. </p>
<p>In the end, the cynical conclusion is that schools are willing participants in the charades developed by people with ample resources and contacts.</p>
<p>You know, if I hadn’t found CC a few years ago, we might have hired someone. My S has quite a few acceptances with merit and is in a great place right now. I don’t think a paid consultant could have done better. My blood pressure would probably be in a better place right now if I hired someone, but S did just as well without. </p>
<p>Am I jealous of those who can afford hired help? Sure, as jealous as I am of those with housekeepers, but I am fine with the place I am in right now. And as others have said, consultants can’t take the tests and can’t do the interviews. The kid is legit or not. The big thing, in my opinion is finding the colleges that are a right fit for your kid that you can afford. CC gave me the tools I needed to do that and I am grateful. Many parents can’t or won’t put in the hours I did. One of the biggest things I will always remember is “love thy safety”. Can’t tell you how many kids I know who refuse to go to their safety but have little other affordable options.</p>
Actually, I heard the young woman whose topic is titled “Communication Underload: Validating the Existence of Disconnect Anxiety” interviewed on NPR. That sounds pretty highfalutin, but actually what she was studying was cell-phone use. From what I could tell from the NPR interview she came up with the idea completely on her own. She sounded very down to earth and normal. Here’s a link to her description of her project which basically involved separating teens from their phones. [Society</a> for Science & The Public](<a href=“http://apps.societyforscience.org/sts/70sts/Hackman.asp]Society”>http://apps.societyforscience.org/sts/70sts/Hackman.asp)</p>
<p>That project offers such positive departure from the SUNY’s paint-by-the-numbers “research” that has capture our attention. </p>
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<p>Isn’t Great Neck the place where teens are so anxiously worried to be without their cells for 4 hours on a Saturday morning that they feel compelled to hire stand-ins for taking the SAT? :)</p>
<p>In my experience, private counselors are used when the guidance counselors in the schools are not doing the job that they are supposed to do. You would hire a tutor for a student who cannot master a class on his own, whether it is due to lack of ability or poor teaching. I see no difference hiring a private college counselor when a student and his or her family cannot master the college app process, whether it is due to their lack of knowledge (I don’t mean that in a negative way - that’s why we’re all on CC - to learn more about it) or their kids’ school’s inferior guidance department.</p>
<p>I think that the most valuable thing a counselor (private or from the guidance dept) brings to the table is knowledge of the colleges, what they have to offer and the type of student they seem to be attracted to. The advantage that a good school counselor has over one who is hired during junior year is knowledge of the student, and being able to offer advice throughout high school (and middle school in some cases). The “packaging” is secondary; as was pointed out above, the groundwork is really laid well before a private counselor comes on the scene.</p>
<p>But (speaking from the perspective of being in a suburban high school setting), I’m not really sure that the role of the guidance counselors is even meant to be at the level of what a private college consultant can offer. I mean, honestly, is it really the public school GC’s role to sit down with my kid, know him really deeply, know all the different schools that might be of interest, work with him on his essay, coach him on how to present himself? I think your typical public school GC’s role is simply to alert students to relevant times in the process (“time to register for the ACT”) and other deadlines, communicate general principles (this is ED, this is EA), create a resource library for students to use, be knowledgeable / pass on info about FA and scholarships, and then be available as needed. But the level of personal attention that a paid consultant winds up giving - I think that’s totally out of scope and unrealistic for even the best and most well-staffed public high school GC’s. My kids’ GC certainly didn’t know anything more about a lot of schools my kids looked at other than what she could find by googling. But I am not certain it really was her scope to do so anyway - to focus on schools that 1% of the kids are interested in versus the same set of 5 schools that 85% of the kids are interested in.</p>
[Society</a> for Science & The Public](<a href=“