<p>I can think of at least 5 adults (public school teachers and administatrators) who are DIRECTLY responsible for my DD’s success in high school and in her college acceptances. I will INSIST that she pay them each $5,000 just to keep things on a level playing field. This thread is silly.</p>
<p>I disagree that this thread is silly. College consultants were very much the exception some years ago, and now becoming more and more common for those kids who are applying to selective schools from areas that have a lot of such kids. </p>
<p>As I said before, I remember when SAT coaching, courses and practice were viewed the same way and now they are considered necessity.</p>
<p>^ I STILL think SAT coaching is grossly silly. I guess next . . . hire someone to coach potty training?</p>
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<p>How interesting. </p>
<p>I really thought that all those mystical GCs who supposedly had enough clout to get someone of the waiting list had died and gone to heaven in the last century. I guess we might as well assume that they still exist in a number of small bastions of suburban elitism, and that they still are able to share the fantastic tales of behind-the-scenes private discussions on that good old rotary phone. The images of dark wood paneling and fine china used for high tea to the angelic sound of the choir singing in the chapel come to mind. Poor Rachel Toor … she tried so hard to tell us how little of an effect those old-fashioned tactics had on the outcome of admissions! Heck, it might come as a surprise to our Ivory Towers adcoms that GCs still wield such powerful weapons. </p>
<p>Fwiw, having a platoon of 5 frequent flyer miles accumulating GCs seems to be a gigantic overkill for a graduating class of 30 --assuming they deal with 120 kids from K9 to K12. This better be at a private high school, or it might make Syosset ISD look like a model of financial responsibility.</p>
<p>I live in an area where some people do hire college consultants. It doesn’t surpise me because a lot of these people have so much money to burn that 15-40K means nothing to them. Spending this money makes them feel that they are giving their child the best advantages. These people are used to paying for the best in life and so I think the more expensive a consultant the better they are perceived.</p>
<p>What I wonder is what happens to that “packaged” kid who has been sold to the admissions office in a pretty package all tied up with ribbons and when they get to college and take off the wrapping they are just an ordinary kid? Are you really helping your kid by spending this money to get them into the most selective college, will they really succeed there? </p>
<p>Will the student feel they really deserved admission to this school-- especially if they received significant help with their essays? What kind of self-respect can this student have if they could not get into college without all that packaging?</p>
<p>And what if after all that packaging they don’t get into the highly selective school their parents thought the highly paid consultant would get them admitted to? Will they feel like an utter failure to have disappointed their parents?</p>
<p>While I don’t question that college consultants can add value to the process, I think overall the use of college consultants is a product of the ever increasing hysteria of parents feeling that if their kids don’t get into the right school they will fail in life. And in this hysteria, the needs of the student, both educationally and emotionally, may be overlooked.</p>
<p>It is a private and it´s graduating class of 120. Looking at the college list, it really isn´t that long, most of those kids apply to almost the same list of schools.</p>
<p>I don´t think they are as “powerful” as they used to be. I think they still have a “trusting relationship,” and they will do each favors. The headmaster from a well known private in NYC was almost fired because of a poor relationship with a top school, she had to make a special trip to do some ring kissing, and following year handful of students were admitted again.</p>
<p>pamom59 - those top tier schools turn away a large number of student who would be perfectly qualified to be at their schools and would succeed if they were admitted. As people have said over and over again, the consultant can´t take the test or get high GPA for a student, it is still up to those kids to do the work. If those kids with private consultants couldn´t get into their dream schools, they would feel just as bad as kids who didn´t use a private consultant. D1 didn´t use a consultant, and she felt like a failure when she was rejected at all of her top schools.</p>
<p>Has anyone thought of this phenomenon in the other direction? What if these parents don’t have enough faith in their kids to wade through the admissions process on their own? The parents are just trying to get their kid on a level playing field with the kids that can.</p>
<p>So if I decide to put on makeup or put on a pretty dress, it would mean I don´t have enough faith in my looks or personality?</p>
<p>yet another example of why the playing fields are NOT level in this beautiful country of ours. but somehow, folks spend more time raging against race/class-based ‘affirmative action’ than this type…</p>
<p>I am a high school counselor who reads these forums to keep up to date on the college admissions rumor mill, and after reading many of these posts I had to create an account to reply.</p>
<p>First of all, it is a major misconception to think that school counselors (the correct term these days, not guidance counselor which is considered outdated) are uneducated. As one poster said, “I also think it’s laughable to think that GC’s, who (in my experience) went to local teacher’s colleges and stayed close to home, would be experts in elite colleges and environments that aren’t close to home.”</p>
<p>I graduated from an elite top-20 university. I then went on and received a Master’s degree from a school counseling program ranked in the top 5 in the nation. And now, for my continuing education credits needed to renew my license, I am taking some college counseling classes to expand my knowledge even more. I have also attended information sessions and workshops with admissions counselors from schools ranging from our local community college to HYP, and spend part of my summer vacation visiting colleges wherever I am vacationing.</p>
<p>Why am I a school counselor when I have a degree from one of the nation’s elite colleges and could have done something like go to an elite law school? My mother asks me that all the time :-). Because I truly love what I do, and I would rather do that than be stuck in a profession that I hate just because I happen to be smart enough to do it.</p>
<p>The National Association for College Admission Counselors is actually not our governing body. Many high school counselors, including me, are members of NACAC, but our true governing body and job description comes from the American School Counselor Association and includes much more than college admission counseling. The role of the high school counselor is outlined here: [Why</a> Secondary School Counselors? - American School Counselor Association](<a href=“http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content.asp?contentid=233]Why”>http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content.asp?contentid=233)</p>
<p>When it comes to college admissions with my own students, I give them what they ask for. I do not seek out every single senior and have multiple detailed sessions with them going over their college list, applications and essays, and try to “package” them. Quite frankly that’s not my job and I don’t have time to do that because my role is to fill all of the needs outlined by ASCA above. However, I do briefly meet with each senior to find out what their plans are and how they are doing in the process. Some have done their visits, have their list of schools, do their applications on their own, and just need me to send their transcripts and letters of recommendation. Others, however, need more help, and I will give them whatever they need. If they want some ideas of colleges that will be a good fit for them I can give them that. If they want me to review their essay or application I will do that. Just because I don’t spend hours with every student packaging them so they can get into an elite school doesn’t mean I don’t help them. However, they do need to be responsible enough to come and ask me for what they need, as I am not a mind reader.</p>
<p>A counselor, whether a private counselor or a school counselor, can only do so much for a student. A counselor can’t take the SAT or ACT, get good grades in AP or honors courses, participate in extra-curricular activities, or win awards. A couple years ago I fought for a student to get accepted at my alma mater after she was waitlisted, and they did admit her. However, all I did was make a phone call and write a letter. She was valedictorian, had a mid-30 ACT score, had over a 4.0 GPA, and was involved in nearly every EC we had with leadership roles in many of them. I didn’t have anything to do with any of those, and if she didn’t have all of that my letter and phone call would not have made a difference.</p>
<p>I am sure there are bad counselors out there, and I am just as frustrated by them as you all are because they give all of us a bad name and are taking jobs from people who are excellent (the job competition out there for school counselors is fierce, and I know several outstanding counselors who cannot find jobs). But I wanted to clarify what our role truly is supposed to be and try to clear up some of the misconceptions.</p>
<p>Yes, there are bad counselors out there. There are also bad teachers, parents, whatevers. The thing with high school counselors, however, is that in my experience, the vast majority of the public school counselors I have met are not qualified to help kids in getting into selective colleges. You are an exception with your qualifications. I remember looking at the CVs of the high school counselors at a large upscale midwest high school in a school district where I lived and they fit the exact stereotype depicted. The kids who got into selective schools certainly did not depend on the guidance counselors there.</p>
<p>Here in the NY suburb where I live it is a different story. And yet, the private college counselors thrive here because it is a big deal to families here as to where their kids get accepted to college. So there is a heavy emphasis on the guidance counselors at the school, and they know that it is big part of their job to work with the kids and families on college apps, and the parents still want more support.</p>
<p>oldfort- I think you missed the point of my post. No one should feel like a failure in life because they are not accepted to an elite school. There is so much more to life, and to education, than this. Parents who use high priced consultants may, unfortunately, be giving their kids the message that getting into an elite school is all-important, when it really is not.</p>
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<p>Well, thank you for taking the time to create an account and offer a different point of view. Fwiw, this community, over the years, has gained incredibly from the input of people who are working as school counselors. Several, just like you, do have impeccable academic backgrounds. In addition, by sharing their knowledge on a public forum, they have easily dispelled the notion that all GCs (yes that term) are uneducated and clueless. I hope you seize this opportunity of joining the ranks of those professionals who help many on an anonymous platform.</p>
<p>Unfortunaly, when you speak about “rumor” mill and “major misconception” it intimates that people who come here to share their REAL LIFE stories are wrong or prone to invention. One sad reality is that the negative accounts dwarf the positive stories, just as the accounts of highly educated and well-trained are dwarfed by the sea of evidence that the profession does NOT attract highly educated people from highly selective schools. </p>
<p>No matter how much spin one adds, it remains that the education sector has, for the last few generations been a magnet for the least competitive students, and that the majority of educators in K-12 have earned degrees from the lower end of our education world. </p>
<p>However, the degree in itself does not mean much. A counselor could have graduated from a mediocre school and offer competent and dedicated advice. An Ivy League graduate could view his duties as nothing else than a sinecure. In the end, it is the competence that matters. And, that is where the collective assessment of the community-at-large does not appear to be that positive.</p>
<p>One thing that you have to remember–most likely a number of paid college counselors were high school counselors in the past.</p>
<p>Or member of adcom at a college in the past.</p>
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<p>No, but if you have to pay someone to do it for you it may mean you do not have enough faith in your ability to do it yourself.</p>
<p>“yet another example of why the playing fields are NOT level in this beautiful country of ours. but somehow, folks spend more time raging against race/class-based ‘affirmative action’ than this type…” </p>
<p>That is an interesting point calimami, I have heard several people thorough out this thread say they are jealous or they wish they could afford to hire a consultant, but I have never heard the people who complain about the huge boost that 'affirmative action" gives say they wish they were black.</p>
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No, it could just mean I am color blind or have shaky hands, but the makeup would look just as good on me even if it’s done by someone else, and my wonderful personality would still shine through.</p>
<p>With education budgets under the axe (CA may cut the required ratio for HS GCs from 1:700 to 1:1000!) there are probably many former HS counselors putting out shingles as independent counselors. </p>
<p>As for what college counselors do, take a look at this College Counseling certification program offered by UCLA: <a href=“https://www.uclaextension.edu/r/ProgramDetails.aspx?reg=CF348[/url]”>https://www.uclaextension.edu/r/ProgramDetails.aspx?reg=CF348</a></p>
<p>Some parents hire college counselors to provide specific information or assistance that may not be generally or easily available to the general public, or may be beyond the scope of even the best and most-involved high school counselor. A good friend of mine has hired a specialist recommend colleges for her GATE-but-LD/IEP child. Another friend has hired a therapist to work with her very shy/fearful daughter to help her overcome issues with interviewing and leaving home. (I don’t mean going away to college – the girl, who is home-schooled, has anxiety attacks over leaving the house.) Not everyone that hires a counselor is looking to have their kid gift-wrapped for Harvard!</p>