Paid college consultant - ethical and fair?

Parent Cafe
61

<p>guaspara - My two hs seniors (twins) are heading to a top 10 LAC and a top 20 university in the fall, and they have classmates going to Yale, Stanford, Notre Dame, etc., so thanks for your concern, but we’re fine. The GC’s are hard-working people and try their best, but you can’t develop a relationship with someone you meet for 15 minutes twice a year to go over graduation requirements and the like. </p>

<p>coolrunning - I don’t know what your problem is, but I didn’t need to “get my head” around the fact that it was my responsibility to guide, not the school’s. I knew that already. The GC - a very pleasant, nice person - was of little use other than from an administrative standpoint sending paper here and there. That’s ok. Let her spend her time on the kids who need significant FA to attend directional state U, or with the parents who need convincing that junior should go more than 100 miles from home. That is seriously a far better use of her time than dealing with my kids who have educated parents who were already expansive thinkers in the search process and could provide our own resources, in spades.</p>

62

<p>kxc1961–the specific case is a little less unfair than it seems, because the student applied to participate in the summer research program and was selected. He wasn’t working with his own relatives or their friends. Still, I agree 100% there is a lot of imbalance and outright unfairness in the process overall. Location helped the student in this case quite a lot, with the continuation of the work after the summer.</p>

<p>For anyone looking, there are a number of summer residential programs for high school students, some at colleges and some at government labs.</p>

63

<p>Our school district is very proud that they’ve kept the GC-to-student ratio at 450:1.<br>
Statewide the average is 700:1, and falling.</p>

64

<p>Presuming that (a) they have statistics to show that their counsel is effective (i.e. higher acceptance rates than other children to the same schools with similar scores / GPAs, or acceptances into better colleges, or more scholarships than the average student with those scores) and (b) they are not writing the essays, I don’t see anything wrong with it.</p>

<p>Sure, it’s a luxury, but hey, everybody has to make a living somehow and if selling luxury items is your game, and somebody thinks it’s worth it, why not?</p>

<p>Obviously ghostwriting essays is unethical but I doubt a coach would admit to doing that. Anyway, if the student couldn’t write an essay the consultant could work with, surely the student wouldn’t get in, anyway, right?</p>

65

<p>FAIR? I think not. Ethical? Depends on the person so in this present climate not often.
It is a shame parents have to shell out so much money to try to give their kids an equal footing. The finger pointing is on the parents but are they not just reacting?</p>

66

<p>Yes, college admission has become a de facto arms race, with other elements being decisive factors in winning the game of college admissions. It will escalate with time, as the Common Application becomes the common platform for admissions tool. Like it or not, that is the new reality. With S1 done and S2 to go in another six years, I’d better getting enough dough in the bank and play the game. As it was said too many times in the past: If you can beat them, join them!</p>

67

<p>Guess I’m just lucky that our GCs are doing the job!</p>

68

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, isn’t so much money relative? </p>

<p>Consider a family that is blessed enough to live in an area where the public K-12 education is well above average. What would be the cost of sending two kids to college compared to the net cost of attending K-12 with the public dollars? </p>

<p>Now compare that to the cost of families for which the local public schools present a set of issues such as low performance to outright physical danger? Many families make the effort to send their kids to religious-based schools for elementary and middle schools, and an even larger effort through high school? Again, what would this total be? </p>

<p>Finally, take a look at the total for a family who sent two children to a series of private local schools or to one of the fancy boarding schools. </p>

<p>With all of that done, plug in the figures for hiring a professional counselor. Let’s take the super counselors who do charge 40,000 or more for a complete K9-12 package? Not even considering the potential for merit aid or the “return of your money at better colleges” does this sum represent a large percentage of the total education for K-16? </p>

<p>In almost ALL cases, the answer is no. However, we seem to like to point out how ridiculous the fees of private consultants are but seem a lot less annoyed by the 100 to 200,000 public dollars spent on K-12, the private schools costs for the same years, and finally the 30,000 to 60,000 for each year of college. </p>

<p>On the surface, it sounds a lot like patrons of a very expensive restaurants complaining about having to tip the valet parking assistants or complaining about the cost of bottled water.</p>

<p>PS One last thing. Private consultants, in a departure from all the other elements of education, can only stay in business if they deliver the “goods.” It takes them a long time to develop the positive reputation that transfers into top dollars, and it is easy to lose with poor results.</p>

69

<p>I would agree with xiggi on this one. There is a market need for private CG or consultants. Apparently, some folks are willing to pay for the service and happy to shell out the money for such service. </p>

<p>Welcome to the free country!</p>

70

<p>I find paid college counselors often to be unethical. But - I’m sure they run the gamut, so one shouldn’t completely stereotype. It does appear to offer an advantage to a greater or lesser extent. It’s very paternalistic, “checking up” to ensure the applicant is optimally situated all along the process. How about students learning to be responsible for themselves…I had a kid put an app in at a school that turned out to not be a fit, though my student was accepted, so that was a “waste of time” and probably would not have happened had we paid some consultants. I am not upset about it, but it is a minor example of how packaged students are optimally positioned (if they have sophisticated consultants, as I would assume).
The college admissions scenario changes a bit each year, and for students and parents new to it, they have to get up to speed whereas a fulltime consultant can stay current and give clever insight and packaging based on what they are hearing.
I much prefer that the STUDENT manage and run his/her apps process, along with parental discussion over the obvious, including finances. It is disillusioning that deserving students, for a wide variety of reasons, have been overlooked by universities at times owing to packaged applicants.
In my area, some people can afford to pay very high prices for years of planning, support, essay “editing,” and close guidance. I am not at all suprised it happens here, most parents are educated and can support their kids in the apps process, but the YEARS some get of paid consulting bothers me.
A basic point is also that the apps process takes time, and packaged students will at a minimum benefit from so much paid consultant hand-holding. Something will give for the “regular” students who are handling all their own essay writing, etc.
At the worst, there are cases of extreme packaging - I am just disgusted.
Solution: top university applications must require a signed statement acknowledging (or not, if not is the case) that student received services of a paid college consultant(s); then specifics should be written (name of consultancy, # hours, fees, services that student received) and the applicant must be aboveboard and acknowledge this.
Perhaps I am more bothered by the secrecy and underhandedness of this practice than the fact it exists.
Really, I hope university officials read these forums and posts because it tells them what is really happening out there - in competitive schools/areas, sometimes students I have known well to be genuine, deserving, very high achievers with great scores have not gotten certain top offers and I have to believe their lack of paid consultants was a detriment and this should NOT be why they were refused. I can’t prove it; this is just my sense of the situation. One hopes for the future of this country that students who have worked hard (themselves) and who really wish to contribute to a particular university and have a real fit, will indeed be the ones who get the privilege of attending there.</p>

71

<p>These days, in public schools, many guidance counsellors are overwhelmed, and can’t devote the one-on-one time to help the kids work up a college list. Many parents don’t have the knowledge base about schools (or have unrealistic expectations for their children).</p>

<p>Some schools have centers to help the kids with their essays. (Our public high school does). Is this unethical or unfair? I think not. Many many parents help the kids edit their essays. Unethical or unfair? So, is having a counsellor do the same role unethical or unfair? I don’t think so. (However, there is a line. editing or offering suggestions is fine. Writing the essay DEFINATELY IS NOT.).</p>

<p>Private schools often have the resources that do the same role as the college consultant. Should a kid whose parents can afford these schools not partake of this service?</p>

<p>What about SAT/ACT prep courses?</p>

<p>The list goes on. The plain and simple fact, is that some kids have more resources than others. Parents will do what it takes for their kids to succeed. Fair or not, it’s a fact of life.</p>

<p>(ps – many friends have hired these consultants for their children. We DID NOT. My child worked long and hard at her apps, and we are extremely proud of the her for the work. As of now (parent brag) she’s 5-5 on acceptances, with a number still outstanding. In her case, the consultant clearly wasn’t necessary. This doesn’t change my view that hiring a consultant is fine.)</p>

72

<p>I live in an area where the local newspaper did a story on a business that teaches kids how to ride bikes. I read that when i moved here and I was floored. We had lived in the midwest for nearly 20 years before coming to the NYC area and I was in for a big culture shock. There are services to scoop the dog poop from your yard, many chauffeur services, 90% of the pot lucks and bake sales are catered by restaurants. Tutors galore. </p>

<p>So a service to work with the college app process sounds just fine to me. </p>

<p>I find it hard to believe that these services that are catering to a large population will out and out commit fraud. I know there are a lot of cheaters out there, but i don’t tend to run into them in situations like that. I think there is more cheating done on a private basis than in a college consulting business.</p>

73

<p>The college search and app process doesn’t require a private counselor.
It seems that a parent who pays for that doesn’t have the ability/time/interest to support their own student and therefore is looking for someone to do what they can’t/won’t.</p>

<p>Admittedly, we started touring colleges sophmore year…just doing the tours, to get an idea of what might be of interest.
I started a spread sheet of the stats from the schools, not just SAT scores, because my chart included yield, % OOS etc…</p>

<p>We didn’t have access to Naviance like other students.
We didn’t spend lots of money and time on SAT prep, interview skills or essay coaching.
We didn’t have access to a regular GC for months and months who would “know” our student.
The English teachers are not having the kids write their essays for class work/editing etc…</p>

<p>The variety of the levels of support from
school GCs,
teachers,
parents etc
is just as varied…</p>

<p>So I think its possible to equally complain about how each high school manages the process…as it is to complain about a parent who spends the extra $ for private support.</p>

<p>All that is to say that all Srs in the process get varied levels of support …</p>

74

<p>To give a bit of perspective on differences of GC at schools. The school where my kids went to most of their lives had 4 GCs for 120 kids, and one head GC. The GCs are required to visit every college students are interested in applying. The big joke from them is they want a kid to apply to HI Uni so they could get a trip out there. College counseling starts at 9th grade. They have private conference calls with top tier school’s adcom before the decision date, and they could get most kids off the WL (including Harvard, or push it to admit for the following year). Therefore there was no need for D1 to have a private counselor.</p>

<p>The school where D2 is at now, also a private school, has one GC for 180 kids. They use Naviance to manage all college applications, which takes away a lot of manual work, but they have no ability to advise. They do not start meeting with students until junior year, so most kids wouldn’t know what tests to take until Spring of junior year. The counselor was surprised a school could have 30:1 student to counselor ratio (she feels now she is under paid).</p>

<p>D2’s private counselor is coming up with a list of schools where her dance would give her more of a tip - sometimes 2 very similar schools, one is looking for more math/science studens and another is looking for more artsy students; a school from south maybe more interested in NE students to get more diversity.</p>

<p>College is a big investment for most people, whether you are full pay or not, spending some money(or effort) to make sure your kid gets into the best (fit) school possible is a smart thing to do.</p>

75

<p>

</p>

<p>Or maybe they don’t find the topic all that interesting (as those of us on CC do).
Or maybe they have other family obligations, such as a disabled child to take care of.
Or maybe they want some outside, neutral, professional advice on the matter.
Or maybe it works best for them to have an “outsider” give advice that the kid will take more to heart than from mom / dad.
Who knows? What difference does it make, as long as said counselor is not doing anything unethical?</p>

<p>I know college counselors who accompany students on visits to colleges. Now, that wouldn’t be anything <em>I</em> would ever hire out, because I personally enjoyed those visits, and I’d want to see any college being considered up close and personal. But if someone else wants to – and maybe it works better for the kid to view the college without mom / dad there – what’s it to me? This whole thing is much ado about nothing. Really, if we want to start talking “unfairness,” let’s talk about the level of counseling at elite private schools versus typical public schools, let’s talk about the huge disparity in public schools in this country from well-to-do to struggling, let’s talk about the often six-figures that are spent in coaching well-off kids to do well in a sport so they can then get a scholarship that the family didn’t need anyway.</p>

76

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, I live in the midwest and there are certainly dog-clean-up services, dog-walking services, chauffeur services for kids’ activities, catering and tutors for those who desire. Nothing’s really new! I disagree that there is something unique about NYC in that regard.</p>

77

<p>Ironically, it kinda says something if a family not only hires someone to pick up their dogs’ mess, and also hires someone to shepard their student through the app process… LOL :rolleyes:</p>

78

<p>It could just be saying that the parents are working extremely long hours, are well off, and are choosing to put what free time they have in other household tasks. Or, they’re extremely well off and are choosing to outsource everything so they can spend more time volunteering. Or, they could be coldhearted uninvolved parents who’ve totally disengaged from all things domestic. We don’t know, so I’ll give 'em the benefit of the doubt. ;)</p>

<p>We do scoop our own dog poop, but we also hire a housekeeper. By the time I get old and feeble enough to have a hard time with the dog poop scooping, I’m hoping that there will be some sort of roomba-esque dog poop collector. </p>

<p>On the original question: I’m with those who think that you can do an excellent job on the college consultant front via obsessively reading CC. People may hire a paid GC thinking it’ll give them a secret “in” with adcoms, but the real value is 1) coming up with a great list of schools, given the student’s interests, strengths, and budget, and 2) providing feedback on essays. Item (1) is really more important. Take a look at all of the discussion threads that come out at this time of year, with students not getting into many (or sometimes any :frowning: ) schools on their list, or not getting good FA/merit offers. I wish they’d posted their lists and stats half a year ago and allowed CC’s wisdom to give those lists a makeover!</p>

79

<p>I would agree: Parental involvement is the key to getting into a school that is optimized for the kid. A year ago, I had no clue about college admissions process (I did not get undergrad degree in this country). I have to get on line and study for it. A year and a few acceptance letters later, I think I am almost as good as any good GC now. Knowing what I know today, I think we made the right list for my S1. More importantly, we have reached the original goal we had set for S1’s admissions process. Still waiting for a couple of Ivies, we are happy even if all of them turn out negative. We have tried our best and that is all we can do.</p>

80

<p>A neighbor of mine is a college consultant, that no one in this town can afford so she is being utilized by other states. She is really good, but a student cost around 25 k, she will get them in but that is a cost of a tuition, I am jealous of those who can do it, but good for them</p>