<p>On the one hand, in her church, she says that our soldiers are "on a task from God." On the other hand, in this interview she goes 180 degrees in the other direction, invoking Abraham Lincoln, saying that we should "pray we are on God's side."</p>
<p>One side of this debate is bound to say what she said first is who she really is. </p>
<p>Others will say the God talk in this context is crazy, and I imagine some of those will be on one side or the other.</p>
<p>The other side will say she adeptly handled her clarification of her earlier comments.</p>
<p>What are your impressions? Is it right for us to adopt a missionary sense about democratic ideals? Does she succeed here?</p>
<ol>
<li>Quit being scared of God.</li>
<li>What she meant was that she hoped we’re on God’s side in what we’re doing, not that God told her the Iraq war was right.</li>
</ol>
<p>A quote from a couple days ago</p>
<p>““Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.””</p>
<p>Her quote just now.</p>
<p>But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that’s a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God’s side.</p>
<p>I’ll have my thoughts about God dictated by no one. This is a free country.</p>
<p>She said one thing in her church, and now that her words are being held up in a national campaign, she’s saying pretty much the opposite. As I said in introducing this thread, you’ll say her words were clarifying. To me, what she said in church were words that were pretty clear. Now that they are not politically expedient, she is changing them. And it’s pretty obvious in this interview.</p>
<p>I am just not ready to have someone making decisions about the Iraq War who thinks that we’re fighting modern day crusades in the Middle East. I want different judgements brought to bear, ones that take into account our interests and strengths and our national security, not ones that suggest we are the instruments of the Almighty’s Will through our warring.</p>
<p>Go ahead and tell me I didn’t hear what I heard. </p>
<p>Here’s what I said on another thread:</p>
<p>I would let the clip speak for itself. And her speak for herself. To me, she reads as someone who’s just not ready for prime time. The sort of “we’re on a mission from God” stuff is really awful, in my opinion, and I am not anti-Christian. But to other people they will say she explained her actual views well. To me, her views were altered 180 degrees for the purposes of the campaign, and what she really thinks is what she said in church. She said those things. It wasn’t her pastor saying them.</p>
<p>Beyond that, she doesn’t seem to have the gravitas or sharpness that would give me confidence in her as a representative among world leaders. She comes across too much for me as a naive. Sure some people are going to say I’m elitist. So be it.</p>
<p>Please quote her saying that the Iraq War was directed by God. What she said was clear. She is a religious person , a God that is great. </p>
<p>In a world as chaotic as ours, hopefully there is an answer.</p>
<p>Sarah Palin hoped that we are on God’s side, not asserting that God is on our’s.</p>
<p>Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.</p>
<p>Can you read? She prayed that our military will do alright, never asserting that they will be. She prayed that what we are doing is accepted by an entity higher than hers, never asserting that it was God’s plan. She prayed that there is a plan, never asserting that it was the plan, but that she hoped it was in line with it.</p>
<p>You can keep saying I didn’t hear what I heard until you are blue in the face. She wasn’t running for VP when the words you quoted were written, and I assign more weight to her honest words when she wasn’t. That’s my prerogative.</p>
<p>Pugfug, I listened to the whole video, and I think the quote you said is largely right. I am not comfortable, though, with the general equation she makes of her positions with god’s prayers, especially not with someone who’s only trip out of the country was to visit troops in Iraq.</p>
<p>For better or for worse many Americans like the infusion of religion into national politics. I believe this will play out to be a non-issue in the campaign, those who like Palin’s talk were very likely to vote for McCain anyway and those who are uncomfortable with it were very likely to vote for Obama anyway. It ultimately doesn’t matter who is right or who is wrong I’ve learned in this election;it is whom the public thinks who is right or whom is wrong on November 4th which really tells a great deal about America.</p>
<p>^It’s more than that. We have separation of church and state in this country, and it derives from the First Amendment and the Establishment Clause, with the approval of the Supreme Court. Too many politicians have been blurring that distinction for too long.</p>
<p>Well, also, just as with how we feel about our enemies when they say it is, for example, the will of Allah that the US or Israel be destroyed, these kinds of comments don’t quell fears. I am not saying we should curb our beliefs to accomodate others, but I do think that taking religion out of these kinds of discussions is helpful.</p>
<p>For me, the biggest issue, though, is that I just don’t want the kind of myopia and limited view suggested by someone who believes that building a pipeline or going to war is god’s will and is something to rally people around as being part of god’s will… It may turn out to be a non-issue overall in the election. That doesn’t make it right, in my opinion.</p>
<p>No it’s not more than that. Although there are no official “religious tests” for running for President, you can be sure as hell there is one when dealing with the electorate. You can’t tell people how to vote. Indeed, I can vote for Palin because she’s cute or I can vote for Obama because he has curly hair neither of which is a substantial reason but my vote would count as much as your thoroughly researched one. The Constitution also provided for a “government by the people for the people”, and it is the truth that this form of Christianity represents many Americans, how many we’ll find out on November 4th. Note: I’m not supporting/endorsing if religion has a legitimate place in politics or not.</p>
<p>^I understand your point. I realize that religion matters to many in the electorate. I am simply saying that it has no official place in our system of government, nor should it. It’s not what the Founders intended and I believe that they were correct in their assessment.</p>
<p>No doubt BeKindRewind that this is not what most people well versed in Modern Christianity would call normal Christianity. Just not to insult anyone, I’d rather call it a different form of Christianity than a highly conservative version, but it definitely seems that way to quite a few people.</p>
<p>Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that “that plan is God’s plan.”</p>
<p>Can you read? She prayed that our military will do alright, never asserting that they will be. She prayed that what we are doing is accepted by an entity higher than hers, never asserting that it was God’s plan.</p>
<p>Ummmm can you read? she did say that the plan is God’s plan. and you are flat out stating that she “NEVER” asserted that it was God’s plan.</p>
<p>two, is the government supposed to be a christian institution?</p>
<p>three, not all americans believe in the same god that Palin believes in. therefore, it is kind of arrogant and haughty to say it is HER God’s plan that does the planning. just like you are arrogant and ignorant to state that the USA, yes i know of its great power and influence, is the “greatest nation on the globe”… how so? greatest in debt? in obesity? </p>
<p>Please quote where she said that and put the whole thing in context.</p>
<p>And what is this whole “Bush Doctrine” thing? There is no “Bush” doctrine. Ideologues are stupid. Clearly, Bush could’ve gone full force against Pakistan, but he didn’t. This “Bush” doctrine is not a very firm ideal. Who knows what the “Bush” doctrine is. Do you even know what it is? Why are you holding it against Palin?</p>
<p>From Wikipedia… The Bush Doctrine is a phrase used to describe various related foreign policy principles of United States president George W. Bush, enunciated in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The phrase initially described the policy that the United States had the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan.[1] Later it came to include additional elements, including the controversial policy of preventive war, which held that the United States should depose foreign regimes that represented threat to the security of the United States, even if that threat was not immediate (used to justify the invasion of Iraq), a policy of supporting democracy around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating the spread of terrorism, and a willingness to pursue U.S. military interests in a unilateral way.[2][3][4] Some of these policies were codified in a National Security Council text entitled the National Security Strategy of the United States published on September 20, 2002.[5]</p>
<p>hahah yes i do know what the bush doctrine is. palin didnt (and probably still doesnt). that’s the point. </p>
<p>ideologues are stupid? do YOU know what ideologues mean? a set of beliefs. and you claim that to be stupid? every single president in the history has had ideologues. don’t pull that abraham lincoln crap you posted in your first post defending palin. because what lincoln had said was an ideologue. id only semi accept it as an EXCUSE if you actually believed ideologues… but you dont, you think they are stupid. so for palin to use the ideologues of abraham are stupid, she THEN must be stupid… well at least in your opinion based on the illogical statements you always seem to assert…wow.</p>
<p>I just saw the video. She was never sure, but she prayed that we’re on God’s side, not that God should agree with her.</p>
<p>Yes, I think ideologues are stupid. When you say no war…just for no war’s sake. When you say Republicans are terrible.. Just to be the party line.</p>
<p>You have to take reality into consideration, which is what McCain and Palin have both done. Palin is clearly religious, but she hasn’t pushed that agenda on her state. McCain doesn’t believe in abortion “rights” but he doesn’t make that a priority.</p>