<p>OP, I feel for your situation. Due process on college campuses (private or public) is different from civilian courts. For example, usually if a student remains quiet, essentially pleading the 5th, it can be perceived as an admission of guilt (have seen phrases to this effect in various handbooks).
I have heard many situations similar to yours recently (though not at Princeton). I now make it a point to tell families to not only look at all of the typical items when a student is applying and deciding which college to attend, but to also look at the handbooks/honor codes etc. It is sooo important to understand how the honor system works, how the hearing process works, how the appeal process works, and how sanctions are levied.</p>
<p>I’m slightly disappointed no one replied to my joke.</p>
<p>■■■■■? I don’t get it. Why shouldn’t the student’s proof resemble a proof found else where. You are being tested on what you learned in class, right?
In all the math courses I’ve taken, almost all the students write the same solutions, because that’s they what they have been taught. I don’t think it’s possible to plagiarize in math; you either understand or don’t understand the proof.</p>
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<p>lol. </p>
<p>Aww. I enjoyed it ;)</p>
<p>I’m glad I didn’t apply to Princeton.</p>
<p>Group therapy, you are making the same arguments of an innocent student. They are logical but the accusation is not about the logic of your work it’s about the FORM of your work. You know that A=B but your proof is written as B=A and by golly, B=A is the way the other source writes it, with other such similarities, and the order of you proof is similar too. It’s not something you memorize, its something you figure out, it’s not a rehash of a class lesson but an exam to test how you apply knowledge. You defend yourself with your logic and all the Honor Committee sees is that the form of your work looks a lot like the other source and concludes THIS IS NOT possible…Sorry, group therapy, for all your innocence you are found guilty. NOBODY on the Honor Committee KNOWS this level of math, all they see are the forms and it LOOKS too much alike. They don’t need to know the math because they are “thoughtful.” As Comp Sci folks about computer code…</p>
<p>I don’t think the math example is helpful, since it seems to be something the OP is conjuring up - not an actual Princeton honor code violation. All the same, cases of alleged plagiarism are first noticed by the professor, who is indeed expert in his/her field. Without full details, there’s no way people on this board can assess OP’s charges. And I would hope s/he wouldn’t reveal details on this forum.</p>
<p>Don’t believe me at your peril. Just ask questions. Ask about the appeal process, how often one is granted. Ask if rulings are overturned and how often. Ask if you have the right to get Honor Committee members IN YOUR FIELD to judge you…a reasonable request…you don’t. Think about the language major and the nuances of a foreign language as manifest in the order of words and nobody on the Honor Committee speaks your language. Look for this in the Rules and Regs…you won’t find it. How many class officers typically major in Latin poetry, Turkish, MOL, engineering or math? If you do, beware, your work will likely be judged by someone who doesn’t know your vernacular. When you vote for a class officer, it’s not about the toilet paper issue or the grade deflation issue that should drive your decision. Class officers ARE your judge and jury, even in quantum mechanics.</p>
<p>Don’t get your logic about “A” student not cheating. Of course “A” students can be the worse offenders. They may think they have the most at stake and be the most obsessed with being on top. They may have been cheating for years, all thoughout HS, but may have gotten away with it. </p>
<p>If you have a school-full of former Valedictorians, many now have to move down in rank and that may be hard for many students to accept.</p>
<p>Know of a student who was guilty and suspended at Princeton. He was number 2 ranked in HS and obsessed with getting a perfect 2400 on the SAT and taking a sick amount of AP’s (many self-taught.) It was self-reported by student that he would would go back to a section on the SAT that he had already completed, to fix things in pursuit of that perfect score.</p>
<p>This is not about a “manic” A student, there are even a few B- in there, sorry, no 2400 or valedictorian just a hard-working student. Although I see your point about crazed students obsessed with perfection…that’s not the profile here. We’re no talking about pathological behaviors, just a normal student.</p>
<p>I had originally assumed that this poster is a parent whose son or daughter has been called to account for a violation of the Honor Code and that the writer deserves a sympathetic response.</p>
<p>Apparently, that is not the case.</p>
<p>I, for one, am now completely convinced that the original poster has no real example of any miscarriage of justice at Princeton in the application of the Honor Code system and that this series of posts is intended for no other purpose than to inflame. </p>
<p>Shame on you.</p>
<p>Once again, in the weeks leading up to admission decisions being announced, we’ll find here on the Princeton board an increasing number of new posters such as this one whose intentions are purely to denigrate despite what they may claim. </p>
<p>It’s frustrating, but we see it every year.</p>
<p>No institution should ever “fear” answering questions about their own policies and procedures; they are online. However, the execution of policies and procedures is a fallible as the human beings administering them. Nobody should be naive enough to believe in perfection; unintended consequences happen all the time but being informed is the only protection I am urging. Every great institution seeks to be better and not fear improvement.</p>
<p>I have never, in all the years I have been an alumna and a parent, heard anyone complain about the Honor Code. It’s usually seen as one of the great things about Princeton.</p>
<p>Those who are guilty typically do not speak out.</p>
<p>My daughter knew two guys well who were suspended. They took it like men. Are back now.</p>
<p>Here’s some math: paysthebills = german_car</p>
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<p>Thank youu 
Look at us having our own conversation while these ‘nerds’ duke it out.</p>
<p>Dukin’ it out is healthy. It helps you to see flaws and then to make things better.</p>
<p>It’s rational to “take it like a Man” if you are guilty.</p>
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So after getting suspended from Princeton, they were allowed back in?</p>
<p>Thank you, paysthebills, for the information. Never more have I wanted to go to Princeton than after I read your post. I think I have finally found a place where I can wield unparalleled power an undergraduate. Next thing you know, I’ll be seducing other undergrads with the sexy committee influence I wield.</p>