<p>My oldest DS will be 21 this summer. Unusual kid (big guy, 6'4", wouldn't hurt a flea, very sensitive yet highly opinionated); old soul who has a hard time accepting the broken 'systems' we live live with. (Stock market? Corrupt. Companies charging outlandish money for cars that aren't worth it? Corrupt. Education system? Needs to be fixed. You get the idea.) He began building/designing (think quirky possible inventor/engineer type) as soon as he could use tools. He attended a Waldorf K-8 and received an excellent education. After one year of high school, took the GED and attended the local community college. Absolutely needed to work with his hands (the further academics history/english etc. at high school depressed him, and he had learned so much at Waldorf) so enrolled and completed the machinist program. (Dean of department calls DS 'one of his best students ever' due to his level of precision, dedication,responsibility, etc.) DS has taken other classes but those that he wanted to take, not necessarily those needed for an Associates Degree (not completed.) He has taken Trig, pre-calc, etc., chemistry, pre-engineering, etc So he might be considered a freshman, maybe a sophomore at a four year. DS has so much potential but can't see the forest through the trees for the moment: what is his next step? Are there any small universities with engineering programs that offer scholarships to the unusual, unique transfer student? He has this incredible skill building custom parts but his brain needs to grow, and he needs a path. His skills coupled with an engineering degree of some kindwould be awesome. The thought of having to take electives (think humanities, history , etc. ) does not work with him. He would be best at a technical type of college. Is there such a place and are there scholarships available? Any advice appreciated ! </p>
<p>How much merit does he need? How much can he pay AFTER a merit award?</p>
<p>Does he have an Associates degree? </p>
<p>What would a scholarship be based on? grades? he seems to lack test scores. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what a school would base a scholarship award on. Is there a public he can commute to from home for cheap? </p>
<p>Even if he could find some small award from some school, would he have the other $35k-50k to pay the rest of the costs per year? IF not, then I don’t know how a merit award would help…unless it’s huge, which isn’t likely for a case like this.</p>
<p>From what I understood from the community college counseling department (at least in our state and for transfers to public universities) they look at community college grades only (high school grades/SAT/ACT not considered) There are some publics but at least one hour commute away. </p>
<p>I don’t know that you will find any school awarding a bachelor’s degree that doesn’t have at least some general education requirements. Is he working as a machinist? Does he not like it?</p>
<p>My daughter will start at Florida Tech next year. She does have to take a few non-science classes (everyone at the school takes English and Comp the first year), but only a few other humanities classes the entire time as an engineering major.</p>
<p>However, there are some big, thick books and lots of reading of engineering stuff required. Half the student body majors in engineering, and a good portion of the rest are math/science majors. I think he would be a freshman, although probably a transfer too, because all those classes you listed are prerequisits for entering freshmen.</p>
<p>“From what I understood from the community college counseling department (at least in our state and for transfers to public universities) they look at community college grades only (high school grades/SAT/ACT not considered) There are some publics but at least one hour commute away.”</p>
<p>I may have misunderstood your first post. Does he have his associates? from what I understand, if you’re coming from a CC, then you need to have a good number of credits in order for a university not to look at HS GPA and test scores. From your first post, it didn’t sound like he had many transferable college-level credits . That’s why I wasn’t sure what a “scholarship” would be based on? He sounds like a really nice and talented young man, but without measured success, I dont’ know what the merit would be based on…especially as a transfer. </p>
<p>how many transferable college-level (not pre-college) credits does he have. Usually, courses like pre-algebra and sometimes even pre-calc aren’t considered to be transferable college level. </p>
<p>While most/all eng’g degrees do not require many Gen Ed/Electives, they usually require SOME…so I don’t know how he could avoid them completely. A BS in Eng’g usually will require 2 Frosh Comp classes and a variety of courses in History, Humanities, etc. I don’t know how he can completely escape the minimums. Even the so-called Tech schools (that are fully accredited) seem to require some. </p>
<p>Since the publics are an hour away, that sounds like you want him to go to a “sleep away” school. </p>
<p>If so, how much can the family contribute towards that? The bottom line is that even if a school gave him $10k per year (which would be big for a transfer student and RARE!), where would the other $15k-25k+ per year come from?). Frankly, any school that would give him a $10k+ transfer scholarship is probably a school with a $45k+ COA. </p>
<p>If he does NOT have his Associates, then he should get THAT at a local CC. Is there a CC near your home? THEN, he might be able to get a transfer scholarship to New Mexico Tech or UNM.</p>
<p>77Choco…I know that this must be frustrating since your younger son is an incoming frosh and has a very large scholarship. But, transfers rarely get anything like that. And it sounds like older son doesn’t have enough credits yet to really get much either way.</p>
<p>Annon - in the area we live, there are a few small shops - mostly they work on winery related items. He is super smart and needs to be challenged. Thanks for the input, two. Interesting. </p>
<p>I think he should get his pre-engineering Associates at a CC, if they offer any co-op opportunities then partake of those. Then transfer to a school where co-opting is common to help him pay for the rest of his education. If the school also gives merit (I think NM Tech does) to transfers, then that would be a bonus. </p>
<p>Mom - no, it’s not frustrating as all three of my kids are so very different from one another and the UA experience is definitely NOT for oldest DS, while it is perfect for DS2. DS1 probably has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-36 transferable undergrad units to this date. The other (many) units were part of his certificate program. He would expect to take some GE, of course … he just is so talented with his hands he has to use them! In CA, a student can transfer from a CC to a public university with any level of units - doesn’t have to have Associates, and no, once they are in a community college SAT/ACT are not considered. They look at how you have done in college. But that is in the public sphere. He has worked hard and saved up a chunk of change. He would probably do best at a small private college or a small public, which is an option. And yes, there is the CC less than 10 minutes from us - that is the one he has been attending. And the reason I posted this is because I know transfer scholarships are hard to find but hoping someone out there knows something I don’t as I am just beginning to research this. He hasn’t been ready to look further until now. I did just receive a private message re: a small mostly engineering, public school (California State University) not far from us that I was not aware of. </p>
<p>Mom - I’ll take a look at New Mexico Tech and UNM. Your co-oping idea is a good one. (Also looking into that at UA for DS2 for the value of the work experience.) I agree it may be best to finish undergrad at CC. Thanks for thinking this through and for your input. I could feel your brain steaming away. 
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<p>Many of the UCs and CSUs now only accept junior-level transfers (i.e. 60 semester or 90 quarter units completed); high school stuff is not considered for junior-level transfers but (at the few campuses that consider lower division transfers) it is considered for lower division transfers.</p>
<p>If he and you have not already done so, look up <a href=“http://www.assist.org”>http://www.assist.org</a> to find out what courses he needs to complete to be transfer-ready.</p>
<p>UCs and CSUs are generally good with financial aid for California residents; try their net price calculators. However, merit scholarships are less common than for frosh (though UCs do offer Regents’ scholarships to top end transfer students). Most of the UCs and CSUs with engineering majors are on the larger side.</p>
<p>All ABET-accredited engineering degree programs will have some humanities and social studies general education requirements.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, ucb.</p>
<p>77choco…a couple of posts above this, you say it might be best for him to “finish undergrad at a CC”. A CC in the vast majority of cases provides only two year associates degrees, not bachelors degrees.</p>
<p>If he really likes to work with his hands, he might find a technical college studying a fine trade to be more rewarding. Have you looked into any of those programs?</p>
<p>“DS1 probably has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-36 transferable undergrad units to this date. The other (many) units were part of his certificate program. He would expect to take some GE, of course … he just is so talented with his hands he has to use them! In CA, a student can transfer from a CC to a public university with any level of units - doesn’t have to have Associates, and no, once they are in a community college SAT/ACT are not considered. They look at how you have done in college.”</p>
<p>Very few Calif publics will accept a transfer that don’t have true junior standing (not just a total number of credits), and I believe that they must have all their Gen Eds completed (at least that was the case at one time and I haven’t heard that that requirement has be removed). There is a rather coordinated procedure between Calif CCs and the Calif public univs. At that point, a student’s HS GPA and test scores aren’t considered. </p>
<p>I suspect that although he has about a year’s worth of units, your son may not have the Gen Eds completed since he seems to want to avoid them. He may need to rethink that. Either way, he needs to find out what he needs to complete at a CC in order to make himself eligible for a Calif public transfer. </p>
<p>He should finish his AA, then look into transferring to a Calif public. Also look at Drexel which does give scholarships to transfers and does do Co-ops. </p>
<p>I wasn’t suggesting that S2’s school experience would have been right for S1. I was just saying that when one smart child is an incoming freshman and therefore can choose from large scholarships from an assortment of schools, it can be frustrating when another smart child won’t have other similarly generous offers simply due to being a transfer. One of my good friends went thru this. Older two did the CC route without them realizing that would limit merit. Their 3rd child has practically a full-ride from the get-go. </p>
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<p>It is not generally required to complete general education requirements before transfer to a California public university (and it may not be possible in some situations, as some engineering majors at UCs require upper division humanities and social studies), but there are a large number of cases where a student can complete general education requirements before transfer by completing what is known as the [url=<a href=“Welcome to ASSIST”>Welcome to ASSIST]IGETC[/url</a>] pattern of courses (or the specific general education requirements of the target campus). Also, there are many cases where transfer students who have not completed the general education requirements need to complete some specific ones before transfer (for example, CSUs require the “golden four” of oral communication, written communication, critical thinking, and math before transfer).</p>
<p>In CA you do not need an AA to transfer. Sometimes the AA is of no value as a terminal degree at all, so you are better off taking the prescribed courses to make the most attractive transcript for transfer. Yes there are AA for Transfer programs, but it is not necessary and not always desirable either. He should look at the articulation agreements (his CC may have them online) to CSUs to see what is recommended for engineering, either IGETC or gen ed of the CSU. This can be discussed with the CC transfer adviser.</p>
<p>Is it Cal Maritime that you are hearing about? I don’t know much about it but the ME majors are part of the Corps of Cadets and it doesn’t sound like he has or may like that kind of commitment.
<a href=“Majors and Minors - CSUM”>Majors and Minors - CSUM;
<p>You didn’t say how he has done in his college classes, just the vocational. Maybe he needs to take calculus and physics to really see if that is the right direction for him and at the same time to show the colleges what he can do.</p>
<p>My friend who studied Chemistry at Cal State Fullerton was really good with tools too. She went to Cal Tech for grad school and told me about designing and building special housing filled with argon gas to allow her to work on old paintings to see what was underneath or something. Anyway she worked in the labs at CSUF and was able to impress people and be encouraged by professors. Hopefully he can find that.</p>
<p>Maybe someone at the small tech colleges mentioned might see a diamond in the rough. He might be able to write an interesting essay and have that professor write an extra recommendation that will catch someone’s interest. But getting the scholarship is another story. I just hope his inflexibility won’t get in his way. Even at my daughter’s college which has an open curriculum outside your major, the engineering kids are the only ones who absolutely have to take humanities classes because the requirements of ABET accreditation.</p>
<p>“the engineering kids are the only ones who absolutely have to take humanities classes because the requirements of ABET accreditation.”</p>
<p>Interesting…If ABET accreditation requires some humanities then it’s really not possible for this young man to escape…unless he goes to a school w/o ABET accreditation…and that’s not a good idea. </p>
<p>Thank you for all the comments. It’s very helpful and I am appreciative. </p>
<p>Mom2, </p>
<p>Thank God the CCollege was there for DS1 when he was 16 and needing a place to be where he could continue education in a way more suited for him. The CColleges are wonderful in the right situation. On the flip side - My DD (DS2 twin) will be taking a gap year and we are advising her to NOT take CC classes so she will still be considered an incoming freshman and will have access to scholarships. (Best advice ever received right here on College Confidential, besides your UA advice 
) She has the stats ( very close to DS2 stats) but not ready to make a decision yet. Enjoying her senior year. Like I said, all three of my kids are so vastly different from one another! Just trying to help each one get to where they need to be and also make the money work - that’s my frustration! </p>
<p>I’ll take a look at Drexel in addition to the other colleges you mentioned. Thank you for taking the time to think of options and I highly value your advice. You are one special lady!</p>
<p>BrownParent - </p>
<p>Yes, it is Cal Maritime. Non-military, 1,100 students ( nice size for him), a CSU (very inexpensive, about $4,000 per semester) and only 30 minutes away. I had no idea. In looking through the curriculum for Facilities Engineering tech major </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.csum.edu/web/engineering-technology/facilities-engineering-technology”>https://www.csum.edu/web/engineering-technology/facilities-engineering-technology</a> </p>
<p>(only 6 majors available) there are excellent technical classes (Steam Plant System Operations, Boilers, Electrical Machinery, Instrumentation and Measurement ) that would interest him! Not too many other non-technical classes, a few humanities, speech communication, critical thinking, etc. He could live at home and commute, it’s an easy one. As a parent, I’m liking it! It is time for him to make a commitment but you are right in that it may be too much. He is such a perfectionist he often doesn’t think he can measure up and then of course he ends up doing spectacularly. He has some emotional stuff to work through. </p>
<p>He has a Community College GPA of 3.86. He has taken these classes there: Physics/ lab, Chemistry/ lab, Trig, Pre-calc, Philosophy, etc. in addition to his vocational certificate classes (machining, welding, CADD) at the same college. </p>
<p>He could complete the IGETC at the CC but again heavy on classes that are non-engineering. That really is not an option for him which is why we haven’t pursued it. </p>
<p>He is definitely a diamond in the rough. And, I will look into the small tech colleges recommended above. The good news is the the Dean of the dept (Industrial Technology) at the CC is his greatest fan! He really ‘sees’ DS, which has been a godsend. Will do anything DS needs. DS is such an unusual kid I almost feel this is about getting him to that next mentor who does see him in his uniqueness. DS is helping in the classroom right now, assisting other students, and creating a new project (some other steam engine.) </p>
<p>thumpert - </p>
<p>Sorry, I meant to say lower division at the cc, not undergrad. My mistake. "If he really likes to work with his hands, he might find a technical college studying a fine trade to be more rewarding. Have you looked into any of those programs? "</p>
<p>No, I haven’t! Where do I start? </p>
<p>He is definitely at a fork in the road, and needing to make a choice. I’m hoping now that he is a bit older and has gone through a few things perhaps he will be more flexible. </p>
<p>Note that CSUs’ own breadth requirements are not all that different from the IGETC pattern.
<a href=“Cal State Apply | CSU”>Cal State Apply | CSU;
<a href=“Welcome to ASSIST”>Welcome to ASSIST;
<p>In other words, if he wants to complete a bachelor’s degree at a CSU, he needs to complete either IGETC or the CSU breadth requirements, whether before or after transfer (IGETC can only be done before transfer, and CSUs require certain breadth requirements to be done before transfer if one does not have all of them or IGETC done).</p>
<p>ucb - </p>
<p>Would you be able to do a quick look through this CSU Cal Maritime curriculum and see what you think? It looks different then the IGETC and the CSU breadth requirements that would normally make do for transfer. </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.csum.edu/web/academics/et/majors/facilities-engineering-technology”>https://www.csum.edu/web/academics/et/majors/facilities-engineering-technology</a></p>
<p>click on the link on the right side…the various technical classes must be substituting or applied to the areas :</p>
<pre><code>Area A — English Language Communication and Critical Thinking
Area B — Scientific Inquiry and Quantitative Reasoning
Area C — Arts and Humanities
Area D — Social Sciences
Area E — Lifelong Learning and Self-Development
</code></pre>
<p>Perhaps because this is a “specialized” CSU? </p>