<p>I've received some very helpful advice last May with suggestions for my junior DS. He was leaning towards Computer Science and interested in a more hands on learning environment, especially schools with co-op programs. Even though he is very strong in Math, he has an 'artsy' side and plays/records music and started a club at school for graphic design. Based on initial feedback we took a summer vacation and visited RIT, U of Rochester, and RPI. We also visited Ithica college (to check out the recording arts program- he did not like the campus nor the degree option), JHU, and U of MD College Park. </p>
<p>I did a general EFC calculator that indicated we would need to pay about 14k a year. We have a daughter w/special needs who we will most likely need to care for her entire life, so I'm not sure if a more detailed look at our financial situation will change those numbers. We do not want to take out loans and can't imagine being able to come up with that every year, so we're looking for merit aid. DS is in full agreement and said he would be willing to go just about anywhere if he received significant merit $.</p>
<p>Lately, he has been wavering about what he wants to major in. He had a horrible teacher for an intro computer class (learned qbasic), and even though he got an a+ in the class, he said he might not be interested in CS anymore. He's talking about engineering b/c he's enjoying his honors physics class, and joined the robotics club and likes it more than he thought. However, he is more of a problem solving kid vs a tinkering/building kid-it seems like the engineering idea is a practical answer for a bright kid interested in math and science.</p>
<p>I'm feeling really discouraged b/c we almost had a solid direction with the visits/major, but now I'm seeing that maybe he isn't clear just yet and undergrad will not be so important. I'm now starting to reconsider if we should just find a college with a decent math major that will offer a good aid package and take it from there. Or perhaps he should go to the state college w/there are lots of options. But my concern, as expressed in a previous post, is that he will get lost in a big state school. </p>
<p>We'd like to do another spring break trip so any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance!</p>
<p>I’m confused, he was a junior in may…is he now a senior? Of was he a sophomore last May? If he was a sophomore it’s not surprising he is waffling about a major, many kids can’t settle on a major until they are actually in college and certainly the vast majority of high school sophomores aren’t really thinking about a major . Many colleges don’t require kids to declare until their sophomore college year. As much as you are concerned about a big state school it may be your best financial bet and it may be the environment that will give him the opportunity to see a larger variety of potential majors. </p>
<p>What size college interested him most? What environment interested him most - urban or more rural? I have a senior who has both big unis and smaller schools and STILL hasn’t really settled…I’m sure come April he will decide so don’t get too stressed.</p>
<p>What is your home state? Do look at this <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1391545-how-do-you-feel-about-your-state-flagship-wishing-better-ones-ny-7.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1391545-how-do-you-feel-about-your-state-flagship-wishing-better-ones-ny-7.html</a> Post #92 which I found interesting. Also Cooper Union in NYC might be a go for him. Don’t know about the deadlines, however. Rose Hulman is a possibility, and so is tiny Manhattan College with its engineering school. IF money is an issue, be aware that a lot of schools do not meet full need. And the most generous schools do not use FAFSA. A work up on some NPC on school sites might be in order. Be aware that the numbers are averages and are most accurate for those schools that meet full need and do not have merit awards. Otherwise those variables are averaged in the mix. Pitt has a good engineering school if your son likes the city, and it has merit possibilities too. UDel is another possibility. If you go upstate towards Albany, UBuffalo has a great engineering department, and so does Stoneybrook if you want to stay in the south. TCNJ has been making a name for itself. For a gentler, smaller approach to engineering check out Bucknell, Can’t remember any of the other smaller schools that have engineering programs.</p>
<p>Oh, yes… not uncommon for the little critters to change their thinking on what they might major in AFTER you have visited a bunch of schools with the original major in mind. D2 did this (visited with a biology mindset, then she discovered physics her senior year… in fact, there is still time for your son to switch to physics as well! :D). Seriously, physics IS the blend of science and math that appeals to many kids.</p>
<p>I think the good news is that he is still leaning in a STEM direction (math/ science/ engineering type majors). I think some of the schools you mentioned are pretty good in all those areas. Although I am a little confused about your comment about undergrad not counting… if he does go for engineering, most engineering students do not go on to graduate degrees. And he can certainly get a job without just a bachelor’s in that field. The good news is that he also would be pretty well positioned to pay back some loans as well. I think what you probably want is to find schools that have good engineering/math/physics/CS so he can pick among them when he gets there.</p>
<p>I was thinking about a number of engineering programs. U Tulsa, Stevens Inst, Olin, Trinity in CT, Alfred, Clarkson, Union, Albany, Stonybrook, Buffalo all in NY. Colorado School of Mines, University of Denver, Kettering, Gonzaga, Santa Clara. </p>
<p>But it’s tough getting the cost down to $14K. Most of these schools do not met full need.</p>
<p>There are several threads on guaranteed merit-based aid in the Financial Aid Forum. Scroll down there until you hit them, and then look at the institutions that are mentioned.</p>
<p>Is that $14,000 the maximum you would want your whole family to come up with, or is that just what the parents will pitch in? If that is your entire contribution (including your son’s), then you need to find places where he will qualify for full tuition and fees either in guaranteed need-based aid, or in guaranteed scholarships. If $14,000 is the parents’ contribution, he can take out the federal loans ($5,500 his freshman year), and work summers and part-time in the school year, then in many states a home-state public U will be affordable, and even a few OOS institutions are in your price range.</p>
<p>I think any of the schools you looked at would be fine for his new interests too. He might well want to start out in engineering and see if he likes it. Easier to switch from engineering to a pure science than vice versa. He might also like or hate real computer science. It’s nothing like a qbasic class. Have you run the financial aid calculators on the websites? You might also want to talk to a financial aid person at some of the schools and ask them what allowances if any, might be made for your situation.</p>
<p>Kettering University in Michigan has a unique program where students work at co-op jobs for a term, then have school for a term, then co-op, then school. Most kids can pay for most of their education through their co-op jobs and they graduate with lots of job experience. They get a lot of hands on learning. It is primarily an engineering school.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the responses. Sorry, I was not clear- DS is currently a junior. While we were touring all the other parents told us how smart we were to start early, but I’m finding that it probably didn’t matter. It did help to get him thinking about college. He had no idea what to expect.</p>
<p>I have been going through the merit aid and full ride threads- there is a lot to sort through, so maybe it is good that we started this early!</p>
<p>If he likes the problem solving side of things, how about looking into being an actuary. It’s a great field, lots of options, aren’t really limited by programs like you are for engineering because its just a math major although many colleges have an actual actuarial science program. That gives him a lot more latitude for merit aid. If he does want to go with an engineering degree, have him look at the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, MN. They have a cooperative arrangement with the University of Minnesota for engineering, he does all 4 years at St. Thomas though. They have a good math department as well as an actuarial science program for other options. They have a cooperative agreement with the other colleges in the area, including Macalaster. They are also very generous to out state students.</p>
<p>Actually, I just mentioned the actuary idea. When I said-but you’d probably have to work with spreadsheets, he said ‘I love spreadsheets!’ I was surprised b/c he doesn’t like repetitive type work, and seems too much of a creative type person to be a straight up number cruncher. I’m going to check out those schools- thanks for the ideas!</p>
<p>My daughter actually struggled as well. She is extremely creative but also pretty gifted in math and sciences. She has always been torn over the right /left brain thing. She spent a summer at Harvard’s architectural program (intense) and a summer at MIT working in their graduate school of design. Her essay was actually about the war betwween her left and right brain because she didnt want to decide which way to go… Until, at the MIT graduate school of design, she worked with students from the mechanical engineering program and students from the graduate school of design program while they combined their efforts and made amazing things collaboratively. At that point, a light went on and she only sought colleges that would allow her to combine these two areas into a major. That limited her field down to 2 schools (she also had other criteria, such as small school, campus feel, not urban) , one that was willing to allow and it and one that was actually encouraging her to do it. She will be attending the latter in the fall. We also have a disabled daughter that needs lifelong care. We also have 6 kids which helps with the financial aid piece. This school came through with grants for just abut the full tuition. Have your child seek schools that FIT him and his interests. Dont worry about him choosing a career now, but find a school that can offer him courses i n all his areas of interest. Good luck.</p>
<p>Lots of options seems like a reasonable way to think – like everyone his age, it’s a process of trial and error to get to the major that fits. So more choices seems prudent, but you don’t want him to be overwhelmed. (I laughed about Ithaca – S2 also was interested until we visited and that was the end of that!)</p>
<p>Westminster College in western PA has a recording/broadcast major and is a small school that gives lots of aid. You might also consider one of PSU’s large branches, like Behrend, or if you are staying awake at night worrying about the money (and who isn’t!) try a PA state system school like West Chester or Ship’, both of whom have good reputations and lots of connections. Or maybe (higher pricetag, potentially) Drexel or Villanova?</p>
<p>Pam, it would be a good idea to know about how much you can afford to spend on college, what you have available, and what you can comfortably borrow. Also it is essential to know what colleges will expect you to pay, which may have no relation to what you can afford. It’s a nasty shock to a lot of people to find out that colleges don’t care about your bills and past financial tribulations. They don’t care that you are helping grandma pay for teeth and hearing aids and heating bill. They don’t care that you need a new roof and your car is getting unreliable, nor do they care that your kid can’t find a job in the area. Most will have a contribution (even Harvard that has the most generous policies) that the student has to make, and if he can’t, the parent has to do so for him.</p>
<p>Most schools just gap anyways, unless your kid is one of the top ones they want, in which case maybe you will get need met or if you have no need, merit money. When you look at a college profile, look for average % of need met. Bear in mind that is the average. </p>
<p>As for those more generous schools, they will want to know even more about your finances and things like having your own company, being a single parent with an ex who won’t pay, having a step parent in the picture all come to the table, and most schools do not care what your situation is , but if you have certain things in the picture, it is considered a source of money whether it comes to be or not. </p>
<p>So being able to pay is going to be a big deal thing.</p>
<p>Also, it is a hard statistic that most STEM and premeds and other math/science/computer majors change their minds There is more movement from those fields than the other way around. Those are tough majors and a lot of kids who thought they would like to work in that field decide otherwise. The vast majority of undergrads change their majors. So unless your kid is really set on the field, it might be wise to look at schools that have some good programs in other things, in the event he changes his mind. Being at Cooper Union or Olin or like schools, is great for those who stick with the major, but the choices are not there if the kid decides it’s not his things, and usually mediocre or bad grades cinch the deal. When that happens, transferring options are lean, and fin and and other money for transfers is nearly nonexistent. Your best chance to get a good aid package and merit awards is as a freshman. All things to think about.</p>
<p>I don’t think that actuarial work is all that repetitive. It is a LOT of spreadsheets! Starting pay out of college for those that passed their first couple tests is at or higher than any engineering job too :D.</p>
<p>If I remember your situation from an earlier thread, I don’t think you’ll get much EFC adjustment for your special needs D because (if I remember correctly) she receives life time benefits to help with her costs. But, I could be wrong…hope so for your sake. :)</p>
<p>You do need to determine how much you can pay, so you’ll know how much merit you’ll need.</p>
<p>If your son wants to major in Eng’g or Comp Sci, and he has at least an ACT 30 or SAT 1330 (m and cr) and a 3.5 GPA, then Alabama would give him two scholarships (one from the univ and one from the Col of Eng’g). </p>
<p>The combination of the two scholarships would give him full tuition plus 2500 per year. If your son were to take a $5k student loan out each year, then your cost would be very low (maybe $6k per year) if he chose a standard double dorm (the COA is highly padded because it includes the priciest “private bedroom” dorms and the “all you can eat” meal plan which is only req’d frosh year). </p>
<p>Bama has a brand new mega sized (gorgeous!) Science and Engineering Complex consisting of 800,000 square feet of new academic STEM space. </p>
<p>The campus is beautiful, the academics are strong, and the people are very friendly.</p>
<p>A friends son is a senior at Millersville, majoring in Math and has just passed his first Actuarial exam. My friend cannot say enough good things about Millersville, especially the special attention her son got from his professors. He started out undeclared, declared Math in sophomore year and will graduate within the four years. I would not rule out our state schools. My daughter was accepted (she chose another college) into the honors college at Millersville and I was surprised by how nice it was. </p>
<p>IUP is another college that has an over the top honors college - [Indiana</a> University of Pennsylvania - Cook Honors College](<a href=“http://www.iup.edu/honors/default.aspx]Indiana”>Page Not Found - Search - IUP) My son has a friend that had an excellent experience there. Got her masters in five years and is now working at Lafayette. She did at least one Study abroad with her honors college special program.</p>
<p>If you are religious, Grove City in Western PA, is an excellent option for engineering.</p>
<p>My son was kind of in the same boat - interested in both engineering and CS. He looked mainly at colleges that had the CS major within the EE department of the school so that he could apply as an EECS student. We expect he will get it sorted out within freshman year.</p>
<p>OP, I think that some idea of your son’s stats would help people make realistic recommendations. I’ma assuming you are PA residents from your name, but in that case it is hard to figure why you haven’t mentioned looking at Penn State or Pitt. I know Penn State is a comparatively expensive flagship, even for in state families, but Pitt is a good school with and Honors College and some great aid if your S’s stats are high enough.</p>
<p>Edit: okay, I looked up your last thread. Updates would still be useful. Regarding school size, don’t forget that a lot can happen to a kid between sophomore and senior year. What seemed intimidating a year ago may not be. And of course, most kids change their majors at least once in college, and have no real idea of what they can actually major in before they go. In your S’s case, it sounds like he needs a well-rounded environment with perhaps a bit more emphasis on STEM if the school is smaller. Northeastern would seem perfect for him, although it certainly is not small. Boston is a fabulous place to go to college, and has a great music scene encompassing virtually every genre.</p>
If you have any friends that are engineers I suggest that your son spend some time talking about the career to find out what the day-to-day life is like, how the career ladder works, etc. the actual work in engineering is not at all like his physics class. Many students are in for a shock when they get thru the schooling (which is grueling) only to find that what engineers actually do bears in many cases little resemblance to the schooling they may have enjoyed. </p>
<p>Another problem with engineering is that at many publics the only practical way to enter the major is when you first enroll (as either a frosh or xfer). So now is the time for him to spend some time finding out if it would be a match for him. You mention entering as a math major, but at most publics that would make the chances of ever switching into engineering quite small if it turns out that’s what he wants.</p>