Parent Needs Advice for NYC loving kid

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question since this is specifically a College forum but since its MT related I figure I could start here. My D is 16 and will be a rising Junior in a few weeks, so we are really just starting to dig into the college search and discussion. We live in NJ and she attends a PA (performing arts not Pennsylvania) high school here but my daughter is a city girl through and through for as long as I can remember she's wanted to both be and a MT actress AND live in NY (or just over the border in Hoboken). She currently studies both voice and dance right in the city and we'll probably hire a monologue coach from there too. </p>

<p>SO my dilemna is my D is very interested in college but doesn't want to go 'away' not because of leaving home but b/c to her NYC is where she wants to be. (She's ok with Montclair since its right over the border and we are from NJ and UARTS since its a pretty easy train ride to NYC and equally urban) But given the limited number of MT schools to choose from in NYC and the 'odds' I keep telling her she needs more choices and her answer is that if she doesn't get in she'll forgo college and pursue a different training 'avenue'. She's been 'taught' that MT is about the training not the degree and believes she'll have access to the 'best' in NY even if she doesn't go to college. </p>

<p>My D has always been an excellent student go her 1st B in her 10 years this year in an honors (believe her unweighted GPA 3.85 now was 4.0 until this yr, her school does not do weighted GPAs). I never considered that she wouldn't go to college but to be honest I'm not sure I can argue with her. We have many friends in 'the biz' and they tell her go to college if you WANT to go but if not certificates programs and/or private training certainly can get you working too if she's willing to put in the work to get hired.</p>

<p>So...sorry for the long background but do you agree with our friends comments or should I continue to push her to pick more colleges to apply to, she's not stupid and wants to succeed so if I gave her credibal arguments she'd listen? If she were to 'widen' her horizons I know her criteria is urban and strong dance (but still MT) and/or still commutable to NYC of weekends any suggestions? (Park Point comes to mind but she still Pittsburgh is 'small' she's never been). OR should I just allow her apply to the ones she wants 'locally', see how it turns out and then also have her to pursue the many Cert programs we have here (CITS, CAP21, many other actor's studios)? Along these lines the repetive loaded question is what about AMDA, she's again met several graduates who are indeed working and keeps asking what's the big controversy?</p>

<p>Thanks for listening, hope I wasn't wrong to post here, I've been reading for so long and you guys are such HUGE pool of knowledge and experience.</p>

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<p>If you D wants to be somewhere that is commutable to NYC on the weekends sometimes Pittsburgh is VERY far.</p>

<p>In the NYC/ NJ area MT specific…</p>

<p>Pace
Marymount Manhattan (MT Minor, most do this with the BA, but I think it is possible with the BFA)
NYU
Montclair
Westminister/ Rider (not sure about the dance component here)
AMDA (2 year)
CITS (2 year)
CAP21 Professional Program (2 year??)</p>

<p>A little further out in either direction…</p>

<p>Hartt
UArts</p>

<p>Urban within four hours…</p>

<p>BOCO</p>

<p>Not particularly urban, but within 4 hours</p>

<p>Syracuse (I spent a lot of time auditioning in NYC my senior year at SU… I think we worked out that we spent about 48 hours in the car driving back and forth to the city in the spring of senior year)</p>

<p>Even if she just applied to the NY/ NJ 4 year college or certificate programs she would have 8 schools on her list… if she expanded her area a bit to include Hartt and UArts that would be 11 schools, all with varied levels of selectivity. If she just applied to the local-ish four year college programs she would have a list of 3 - 6 schools. But, all with varied selectivity. </p>

<p>It sounds like your D is pretty sure about what she is looking for. Right now she has a plan that she is set on. If she adds schools to her list that she does not want to go to, she sill may not want to go – even if those are the only schools to which she is admitted, so that is wasted time and money. Maybe her plan will work in her favor, and she will get into one of the NYC/ NJ schools. If not, then she can always take a gap year, keep training and re-assess. </p>

<p>I am not the parent of a HS or college student, but I have taught numerous HS and now college students – it seems like in the end they really make their own decisions, and have to live with the consequences… both positive and negative. </p>

<p>I had friends who either went the certificate route or did a few years of a college program, dropped out to work, and years later are now finishing their college degree because they want the degree. Others who dropped out to work and have not decided to go back and complete the college degree. </p>

<p>It all depends on whether she feels that completing the four year college education by the age of 21 or 22 is important to her.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your excellent input KatMT, the 1st grouping of schools are the ones on her list plus UArts, I didn’t really stop to add them up cause the majority of our conversation has been centered around NYU and Pace and in my mind I’m thinking, that’s just 2 schools but you’re right its not, thanks for typing them all out) </p>

<p>I will mention Hartt to her as well and she did like Boston so I’ll remind her about BOCO too (we actually take the Bolt bus up there often VERY cheaply from NYC so why not in reverse). </p>

<p>Oh just for another chuckle she told me she’s ok with moving to London too LOL, now that opens a whole other set of questions.</p>

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<p>I would encourage your daughter to get a degree in any case. The realities of a career in MT are shaky at best. Having that degree may mean a lot to her in the long run. Also make sure she have a “safety” on her list, this is a school that does not require an audition to get into the MT program. She sounds like she will be a good candidate for an MT program, but you never know what they are looking for year to year, lots of talented kids don’t get accepted.</p>

<p>When ever I read a thread like this I am always put in kind of a dilemma. When my son was a junior in HS he went to a workshop that was conducted by a casting director from Disney. At the end of the day he invited parents to sit in and have a Q&A session. At the time we knew NOTHING about this process and were very interested in all that was said. Lot’s of questions were asked about the college process and what schools would give your child the best shot for a career on Broadway. He said repeatedly that while a good education was important but he encouraged everyone to think about a BA rather than a BFA. He said being a well rounded person will allow you to be a better actor and bring more to each role. He said that totally focusing on singing, dancing and acting, while these skills are necessary, you need more life knowledge to be a good actor. He also pointed out that many performers have degrees in many different areas.</p>

<p>On the other hand it has been shown that people who have a passion for something and become rather “single minded” are most likely to succeed in that field. There are several books that speak to this.</p>

<p>These are thoughts I have had many times regarding my own son. He has been very
single mined regarding his VP studies. But I have been relieved to see the interest he has taken regarding his other subjects. He has even said on occasion that if a career in VP didn’t work out for him he would be happy teaching history or doing work in the art history field.</p>

<p>Just food for thought!</p>

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<p>I will add that I teach in a BA Musical Theatre program where we believe that a well rounded college education in addition to intense theatre training helps to foster vital theatre artists. But, this environment is not the appropriate environment for all students. Some 17/18 year olds are more well served in a more conservatory styled program.</p>

<p>Back years ago when I was looking at schools I refused to apply to anything but BFA programs (although I did want BFA programs with a little bit of general education, and a college campus feel). My mother tried to convince me to apply to BA Liberal Arts schools as well, but I did not want that kind of education at that time in my life, and I would not have thrived in that environment. I managed to find one BFA MT program that did not require an audition at the time, where my guidance counselor said I would have no trouble being admitted academically. This became my “safety” school. There are still schools that fit this bill – although most are not in urban environments.</p>

<p>When I am meeting with prospective students where I now teach I always make clear that there are many different educational paths to a similar career outcome. It all comes down to the kind of undergraduate educational experience you want, or even IF one wants an undergraduate educational experience right out of HS (or ever). The students who are happy where I teach choose to be there because they want a little more balance in their daily schedule. A student who is very single focused on only singing, dancing, and acting all day will most likely not be happy in a more balanced educational environment.</p>

<p>If your D can try to be clear on the kind of experience she wants for the next 2 - 4 years (and if urban location is important to her – that should be one of her criteria) it will help her narrow down her choices. </p>

<p>Some kids are certain they want a conservatory type program. In that case applying to academic safety, non-auditioned programs as well as the conservatory type programs may not be the best idea. It comes down to whether or not the student (and the family) are comfortable with the idea of a gap year to pursue additional training, and then re-apply for the schools that meet the conservatory criteria. </p>

<p>GOOD LUCK!</p>

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<p>Also Wagner College on Staten Island.</p>

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<p>Several additional comments: Syracuse also offers a semester in NYC; students can opt to spend the last semester of senior year studying with casting agents, directors, and other professionals in Manhattan. </p>

<p>I am a vocal coach, and most of my high school students do go on to college, or to a 2-year program. Recently however, one of them went directly to NYC after graduating from high school. He is probably the most talented singer I have ever worked with. In 2 years, he’s been cast in 4 shows, each of them lasting several months. </p>

<p>More importantly, he’s almost always the youngest actor at every audition; and has lost quite a few roles because he just didn’t look old enough. He has been asked repeatedly by directors why he isn’t in college, getting a good education. In addition, he often has difficulty socializing with other cast members because he’s not yet 21 – and they often relax after rehearsals or shows by going to a bar. So he sits alone in his hotel room.</p>

<p>These are issues I’m sure your daughter hasn’t even thought about, but they are important and should be considered as part of the audition process. I personally recommend that my students get some form of higher education; this means that they choose at least one safety school where they would be happy.</p>

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<p>You have all given me lots of great information. Thank you!
Keep the comments coming! Just to be clear what I’m really hearing is the 2 yr vs 4 yr program is really a personal choice but there is a decent mix of both in the area right? As far as the ‘safety’ school issue, we’ve talked about Muhlenberg (We believe she’s an academic match) because they do have buses to the city and isn’t far from me but it isn’t urban. </p>

<p>A lot can change in the next 2 years but I have to say my gut is if she wasn’t to get in an NYC or Philly school or Montclair, her preference would be to have a gap year and continue with outside training and re-audition rather then go to a school she’s not thrilled about.</p>

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<p>My personal feeling is, unless you are independently wealthy, a college degree is a must today. Very, very, very, very few people are able to support themselves solely by performing. If you have a degree, you have a strong foundation or base to build upon. And the flexibility to change direction later in life.</p>

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<p>You might also want to take a look at Temple U, West Chester U and DeSales(which is not far from Muhlenberg).
KatMT suggested some great schools-my d just finished her freshman year at Marymount and loved it- a small school in a great city.</p>

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<p>ransomedheart- This was very similar for me as I wanted to be in NYC and it seemed like the ONLY place I could be happy, so I totally see where your daughter is coming from and you, as a supportive mother want her to be where she is happy, which is great. One thing I realized going through this situation this past year is that it is really about where you are going to get the best training, NOT just being in the city. Hopefully your daughter will get into a school that she loves either in the city or close by, but don’t be afraid to look at other reputable programs outside of the city or in different states. NYC will always be there, and as a young person we feel like 4 years is the end of the world and will never pass and we will never get back to the city, but you will and you can always spend the summers interning or doing summer programs in the city. When I was denied academically from NYU, I was devastated because I wanted to be in the city so badly for college after spending last summer at Circle in the Square. But I came to realize that where I am ending up is a better fit programwise for me (NYU is amazing, don’t get me wrong). But I think that studying outside of the city will stop me from feeling pressure to audition every chance I get and try to ‘make it’ while in college, instead of focusing on learning and improving. Anyway, all I am saying is visit some other schools that aren’t just close to the city but have an amazing program (I’m not saying that all the ones you have listed do not) and your daughter might find one that clicks, so all eggs are not in one basket where ‘the world will end’ if she is not in NYC. Everyone has listed wonderful options to look at, but that is just my two cents after going through this tiring process this past year. Hope I was of some help :)</p>