Parent of HS junior with questions about USC student life, merit aid etc

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
1

<p>I've been lurking on the USC forum for a while and have read Madbean's Final Answer thread about chances for admission to USC. We're trying to help (nudge, suggest) schools for D to consider. So this isn't so much a chances thread as an attempt to get a feel for whether USC is a good option for her and, if so, to learn what she can do to maximize her chance of admission and possible merit scholarship.</p>

<p>D attends a fairly large public high school. She has a 4.8 (W)/4.0 (UW). She got 225 on the PSAT so she's well above our state cutoff for NMSF. She also took the December SAT and got 2340 (800 CR, 740 M, 800 W). She is taking the most rigorous class schedule available, including AP Calc BC, AP Stat, AP Chem, APUSH this year. She doesn't have a lot of EC's but her two major ones are debate and mock trial. She is very passionate about speech & debate and competes extensively and has won many awards (finalist, semifinalst) on the local circuit and been a national qualifier. D is undecided about her major and career plans. Maybe med school. Maybe law school. She really has no idea.</p>

<p>We've run the NPC's on a bunch of school websites and come to the realization that we won't qualify for need based aid. So we're in a situation where we will need to pay the full COA. But it will be painful and considering the likelihood of graduate school, the possibility of getting merit aid is very attractive.</p>

<p>Back in October we visited the Claremont Colleges and UCLA. We mainly went to UCLA because my niece (a CA resident) recently graduated from there. But after considering the cost of attendance from OOS, I've lost some of my enthusiasm for that option. I also became aware, thanks to CC, that USC seems to be the most selective school that offers significant merit aid to NMF's. So with that in mind, I wanted to ask:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>D has high test scores and GPA. But I know admission is not a sure thing. So what can she do to maximize her chances? We will definitely plan a visit. Does it help to somehow express interest? How important are essays?</p></li>
<li><p>If I understand correctly, if she is admitted then she'll automatically qualify for the half tuition scholarship, right, by virtue of being a NMF? And is there anything she can do to increase the likelihood of being asked to interview for the Trustee's Scholarship?</p></li>
<li><p>The Claremont Colleges make a big deal about the individual attention a student receives and the small class size, close faculty contact, research opportunities etc. At USC, will D be in huge classes and at risk of being lost in the masses?</p></li>
<li><p>What's the housing situation after freshman year? I read about a construction project to build new student housing, but it didn't sound like it was going to be completed very soon?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks very much for any feedback and/or suggestions.</p>

2

<p>Corinthian, many believe that the logic behind USC offering large merit awards is to attract very high-achieving HS students like your D, many of whom may be aiming at even more selective type universities. That being said, here are a few opinions on your questions:</p>

<p>1) All any great candidate can do is write great personal essays and show why they specifically feel a desire to attend USC (I think there is a why USC short essay). It is also possible to meet a regional admissions rep as they travel to many HS’s around the country/world and hold info sessions in many cities too. They also hold online sessions to meet-the-admissions reps. If that isn’t convenient, email your specific admissions rep with a question. Taking the time to visit campus and/or meet a rep is more than many many students do…so it may be noted.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>All admitted NMFs receive 1/2 tuition + $1,000 for 4 years. I will start a new thread about merit scholarships with a lot of speculation, observations, and insight on that process since many students are hoping for a chance to interview. In fact, receiving the Presidential is very close to the highest award given, so NMF is seriously the easiest way to earn close to $90,000 in scholarships. More in a new thread.</p></li>
<li><p>If your D liked the personal touch at the Claremont Colleges, she would probably love love love USC’s honors program called Thematic Option, which is a special track for top academic students to take all their required GEs in small classes with exceptional professors among equally motivated young scholars. [Thematic</a> Option > USC Dana and David Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences](<a href=“http://dornsife.usc.edu/thematic-option/]Thematic”>http://dornsife.usc.edu/thematic-option/) In addition, USC has mostly small class sizes in all upper level courses. My son (junior) had 7 students in one class last semester; 18 in two other classes; 4 in another. Depending on major there are great chances to work with professors on research–often paid–starting freshman year.</p></li>
<li><p>There are many choices for housing since several upscale student apartments were added over the past few years to the choices for upperclassmen. There are also very good options for apartments owned by USC which are a little less luxo (still nice) and less $$ too. Most of these are off campus–many right across the street, so be sure to look at the choices when you come to visit. I understand they are breaking ground on the new University Village with shopping, restaurants and a lot of new university apartments this summer. Not sure when they will be ready for move-in, but my guess is in about 2 years or so. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Best of luck in your search!</p>

3

<p>Thanks very much Madbean. That’s just the sort of feedback I was looking for. It’s good to know about the Thematic Option. That definitely sounds like something D would be interested in. I’ll watch for your merit aid thread.</p>

4

<ol>
<li> Completely depends on her major and her selected classes. Pre-meds will typically be in rather large classes for all the pre-reqs (think 200ish in a section for Chem, Bio, Physics, OChem). D doesn’t think this is a big problem with a lecture style class at all-- but she has never been one who needed individual attention to thrive. </li>
</ol>

<p>The one drawback she has found is that it is harder to get to know profs for letters of rec. She has had to put in extra effort to make a connection-- something that may or may not be necessary at a school with smaller classes (or in a different major at USC). </p>

<p>Unlike Madbean’s S, D has found that upper level classes in sciences have also been rather large (none less than 40, and many with >100). This is very different than the small class sizes many many other majors enjoy at USC. Something to consider.</p>

<p>GE and required writing classes have been much smaller for D-- often 20 or less. Labs and discussion sections for science classes are usually around this size as well. Many of the classes in her minor have also been small.</p>

5

<p>Undecided ADMITTED students are usually placed in the Dornsife School of Letters, Arts and Sciences. If she indicated in her essay or comments your daughter, if qualified, may be invited to the special learning environment of the Science Honors Progam (FSH). This is a program for 60 selected freshmen who will participate in the small classes, science research projects, special projects, transition to advanced courses and lab research seminars. They will work closely with the director of the science honors program.</p>

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<p>Thanks Camomof3 and Georgia Girl. She has talked about possibly Biochemistry or Chemistry as a possible major. Is it possible to apply and be accepted to both the FSH and the Thematic Option?</p>

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<p>^yes- it is possible and some students do both. My D elected not to do either but knew a few kids (she lived in Birnkrant freshman year with all the scholarship kids) who did. Others decided to do one and not the other (or were selected for one and not the other).</p>

8

<p>Dornsife offers these:</p>

<p>SOAR
Student Opportunities for Academic Research</p>

<p>Provides $1000 grants for non-course related research which involves individual mentoring and academic support. Selective.</p>

<p>SURF
Summer Undergraduate Research Fund</p>

<p>Students apply for stipends up to $3000 for summer research projects which may involve other academic institutions in the U.S. or abroad. Selective</p>

<p>Problems Without Passports
This is a very popular program which introduces students to experiential learning summer courses away from SC. These may be abroad.</p>

<p>JEP
Join Educational Project</p>

<p>This is one of the oldest service learning program in the country. Offers students the opportunity to combine academic coursework with meaningful community outreach.</p>

<p>Overseas Study</p>

<p>Choose from more than 50 study options. Students may earn credit while abroad. Sites include a long list of destinations such as Madrid, Athens, Santiago, London and Seoul.</p>

<p>Other programs include undergraduate research, team research communities (for sophs and juniors) and the multimedia core.</p>

<p>For more detailed information: [USC</a> Dana and David Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences](<a href=“http://www.college.usc.edu%5DUSC”>http://www.college.usc.edu) Phone: 213 740 5930</p>

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<p>Note…</p>

<p>All classes are taught by USC professors or lecturers. TAs do not teach classes. Labs or small discussion groups may be led by TAs.</p>

10

<p>Georgia Girl, thanks for the wealth of info! Since you’re being so helpful, one more question for you and anyone else who wants to weigh in. How important is Greek life? I strongly doubt my D would want to be in a sorority. Is that a problem at USC? If you’re not in a fraternity or sorority, do you feel like you’re outside of the mainstream?</p>

11

<p>More input for question #3:</p>

<p>My student chose to participate in USC’s Thematic Option Honors program (TO), and considers that to be the best decision she made for her college experience. Her TO classes ranged in size from 9 to 20 students, with an average of about 12-14. Individual writing tutorials are included, and because TO students are able to complete all writing requirements in freshman year (or extend to soph or junior year at the student’s discretion) students benefit from that in other classes by developing excellent writing skills early on. TO students may submit work to be presented at the Annual Research Conference, which gives them an opportunity to present their papers to USC faculty and peers and become published.</p>

<p>In her major field of study, she knocked on doors and joined ongoing research projects in her very first semester at USC allowing her to develop connections and relationships with professors. She asked a professor to mentor her in writing her own research proposal to submit and at the close of freshman year found herself on a plane heading out for a 2-month fully-funded research expedition overseas. Note: Research opportunities are available in EVERY field/major/minor or interest. If you do not find an ongoing project in your area of interest, write your own proposal and start one - it really is possible, even for freshmen and sophomores. </p>

<p>At any university, the opportunities will be what YOU make of them, but for those who look for them and are willing to put in the work, the opportunities at USC are endless. Really.</p>

<p>Additional note: My student did not participate in a sorority or in Greek life, and it was in no way a detriment or negative. Only about 20% of USC students participate in fraternities/sororities, so you will find that 80% do not. It is fair to say that a vast majority of USC students are not in a sorority or fraternity. Whether your student chooses to be a part of Greek life at USC or not, she will find many opportunities for social interactions.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

12

<p>USC is not a LAC, and despite the opportunities to enroll in smaller courses, USC is a large private university and the campus reflects its student body. TO is okay, kind of obsolete today given the average stats of all freshmen, and rather isolated, in my experience. That said, your D needs to ask herself whether she will enjoy a large school. USC attracts outgoing extroverts and if she is uncomfortable in that situation, she needs to reconsider. Nonetheless, she will gain significant exposure to other cultures, given USC’s large foreign population. I recommend she visit campus and spend some time there, as I did before I applied.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

13

<p>Thanks SeattleTW. D is a speech & debater so I would definitely consider her an extrovert. Speech & debate is also an extremely popular EC among various immigrant groups and has enabled her to make many friends and teammates from other cultures. So she would consider that aspect of USC to be a plus. The size of USC is more of a concern to us in terms of class size, academic advising, research opportunities for undergrads, etc. Especially since D is still pretty undecided as to her major and her career path. That’s really where I am concerned whether she will get sufficient personalized advice and guidance. We will definitely plan a visit to USC!</p>

14

<p>I can’t offer much input on advising and class size without knowing what major she will be applying for, but once you get past the GE requirements, the classroom sizes shrink significantly. There’s a lot of attention, from career advisement to academic advisement. My inbox is inundated with emails from the university trying to help me out on a daily basis.</p>

<p>And there’s a lot of personal attention from the get-go; as an older student, I was actually a little put off by all the hand holding early on. But I can see why that it is a real benefit for freshmen and probably soothing for parents. The university really does go the extra mile to welcome new students.</p>

<p>The one thing I did want to chime in on was undergraduate research opportunities - there are a lot. At orientation, undergrad students are continually reminded about the many research opportunities at campus. Dornsife even has a program called the SURF program, where the university will actually provide a stipend up to $3,000 to work on student research it approves. USC is a Tier 1 research institution and works diligently to afford its undergrads the opportunity to gain valuable research experience. I was looking forward to starting my own independent research this next semester, but I fear that it may be tabled so I can pursue other opportunities.</p>

<p>Lastly, I wanted to give you a real candid response to choosing between a 5C or USC. I was accepted by both Pitzer and USC. Both gave me a lot of financial help. I was interviewed extensively by Pitzer and found to the staff there to be incredibly warm and enthusiastic. It was one of the toughest decisions I ever made and I felt, to be honest, kind of sad when I turned down Pitzer. </p>

<p>But the biggest advantage I feel both Pomona and Pitzer offer its students, which are incredible study-abroad options, is something I cannot pursue at this point in my life. Pitzer can basically write a how-to book for other universities on how to get students into the Fulbright Program. The schools are not as traditional and definitely allow their students to eschew some of the more one-size-fits-all approaches to higher education. If those things matter more to you and your student, I would take a long, hard look at the Claremont Colleges.</p>

<p>That said, don’t be fooled by the size of USC’s student population. It’s also the largest private employer in all of Los Angeles. It has a small army of educators and administrators at its disposal, an unbelievable alumni network and can provide some of the best opportunities for students imaginable.</p>

<p>Good luck and I hope you enjoy your visit.</p>

15

<p>Advising can be hit or miss, depending on your major and your school. D has had great experiences with the pre-med advising staff. She has never had a problem getting an appointment quickly and at a time she can make (which is saying something with her crazy schedule). They have been spot on at every turn as well, giving her things to think about ahead of time. Her major advisor, however, has been an up and down thing. She has had 4 different ones in 2.5 years (not because she changes, but because they do). She only uses them now to check in with when she has to and relies on pre-med advising for almost everything else. </p>

<p>She has friends in other schools (Viterbi, Marshall) who have great advisors.</p>

16

<p>Our kids were in two different fields–Engineering and Cinema. Both felt they got more than enough individual attention when they wanted it. S was able to do research in engineering and participate in published research papers in engineering AND geology as a JR and SR. D was involved in making several films on campus. </p>

<p>Though the U is large, the schools within USC are much smaller. For example, S had only 200 freshmen in the first year engineering program with him. One field that some pre-meds pursue is bioengineering. This gives allows them to do biomedical research if they decide they don’t want to go on to med school BUT is a very competitive field.</p>

<p>For pre-law or pre-med, you can actually major in any field, as long as you take the subjects needed for med or law school and get great grades. My relative in podiatry school majored in history. Many attorneys major in business, history, philosophy, poli sci, English, or whatever else they are interested in.</p>

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<p>Targeting colleges that offer merit aid makes perfect sense for strong students from upper middle class families who are likely to go on to graduate school. My daughter wanted the complete college experience and plenty of sunshine. She applied for merit aid at Duke, Emory, Miami, Tulane, USC, and Vanderbilt. She got in everywhere with a lot of money from Tulane and full tuition from Miami and USC. Interestingly, Tulane, Miami, and USC were the schools we didn’t visit prior to applying. She chose USC and is extremely happy there. I believe that the common app essay was very important. My advice would be to have daughter choose a mundane topic and write about it in a way that conveys her creativity and personality. No need to address her accomplishments, as these will speak for themselves in her application. As a debater, your daughter ought to present well at the interview stage. My hunch is that USC is seeking the most well rounded students with high stats, not simply the students with the most impressive stats. Good luck</p>