<p>Parent of two recruited athletes in "non-revenue" sports.</p>
<p>I think a likely letter from an Ivy is a pretty safe bet, although each case is individual, given the variables of athlete, school, coach and sport. Things can and do change, but I don't believe the Ivies are capricious in sending likely letters.</p>
<p>Neither of my sons received likely letters from their first choice school; they applied ED based on the coaches telling them they were on the "short list". Both were accepted. Both had grades and test scores that would qualify them for the respective schools with or without the sport. You are, hopefully, familiar with the Ivy coaches' "banding system".</p>
<p>My first thought is that if your son is just entering his senior year (am I correct?) I just hope he's really, truly, set on this particular school. To make a commitment yet this summer without going on recruiting trips to at least a few other schools seems a bit limiting. Both of my sons found that their impressions of a few of the schools/teams/coaches (all Ivies) changed dramatically after a recruitment visit. One S took 3 trips; the other accepted 5 (this was disruptive, but necessary) and these trips were key for them in determining a clear first-choice school.</p>
<p>Of course coaches talk to one another and that's why it's important to be straightforward. If an athlete says "you are my first choice" to three coaches in the same conference, it will be noted. It's okay to say "your school is one of my top two or three choices". If they really want you, they're not going drop you from their recruit list for being honest.</p>
<p>For those who have been through this process, how did you decide which coach/athletic program was the best fit for your child? It seems so far that each place we visited has something equally good, but different to offer. For example, in one case, we liked the coaches better as far as being comfortable with them as mentors (friendly, fatherly, etc.), but at another school the coach seemed to be more intuitive about my D and how he could help her with her sport. What qualities mattered the most for you and your child and why? </p>
<p>What clues did you look for that told you the real nitty gritty you needed to know about how your athlete would be treated athletically and supported academically? No coach will directly tell you: "We're going to run your athlete into the ground and suck the life juices out of them," or "Your kid is going to be so exhausted/busy from playing x sport that their academics will take a hit." What did your athletes take note of in official or unofficial visits that helped them figure this all out?</p>
<p>Take a look at the conference that they compete in. Do a spread sheet of the team's results over the past 5-6 years under the current coach.</p>
<p>See if you can access the rosters from several years ago and take note of attrition from Freshman/Sophomore year to Senior year. Look at the roster and see if you can find the departments (majors) of the current athletes. Take a look at the writeups of how they performed in secondary school and what general level they attained there. Especially look at the starters on the team and what they are studying. </p>
<p>Some programs have lower ambitions than others, as do their coaches. Often, this is a good thing, as they simply want to attain a respectable upper level performance in their conference, and beyond that are sensitive to the needs of the students. Some will allow their best athletes to miss a practice if there is a conflict with a required physics lab. Others will channel everyone to the Kinesiology or Sports Management curricula, (which is OK if that's what you want......otherwise, not so OK).</p>
<p>Have the student talk with the upperclassmen on the team. Are they dismissive of their academic responsibilities? Ask what they do during the summers or off season. At the schools on the quarter system, are the ambitious academic kids taking their harder courses in the summer? Ask about how off season activities are organized and montiored by the coaches and captains. Ask where recent graduates are working or studying. Some programs in some conferences and sports produce high school coaches. Some produce wall streeters. Some produce unemployed non-graduates. </p>
<p>Most of this is a "feel" type of judgement. You can be certain, however, that programs that are looking for upper tier success are going to work their athletes hard. There isn't any way to be competitive without acknowledgeing the demands of the competition.</p>
<p>dadx: do you think it's a reasonable assumption that a school which offers athletic scholarship money will tend to work its athletes harder? Don't get me wrong, D is willing to work hard on both academics and athletics, but she doesn't want to have happen what you mention above--to get pushed into an easier major or easier classes because they better serve the wants and demands of the athletic program.</p>
<p>With D1, she chose the school she wanted with the coach she loved. It has been a good fit but the coach has just left. She will be a junior but she is not concerned in the least! She loves the school, her major, her friends, the profs. They usually get a "gut" feeling. She says if she doesn't like the new coaches' style...oh well! Maturity is a good thing! Go for the school...not the coach!</p>
<p>D2 will leave next year for a D1 program. Picked the school before she even talked with the coach. What a relief she really liked him! She is my hard to please kid so I'm holding my breath!</p>
<p>Again, not to hijack the discussion, but the comment about verbal commitments not being binding raises a question that my S and I are about to be faced with. We are delighted that an elite LA school (DIII) seems ready to "support" S's ED application, if S likes it well enough to apply ED after an upcoming weekend visit. My question: if the coach says he will support the application, is there any writing that confirms that he will, in fact, do so? I have no reason to think that he will not do so if he says he will, and if S is not admitted ED we will know in mid-December and can apply RD elsewhwere, but we will have stopped any recruiting efforts. Thanks for your thoughts. The earlier discussions re: Iveys is relevent to us too as it is possible that S will be recruited by an Ivey before S is asked to commit ED to the DIII school.</p>
<p>Two notes on previous discussions- DD applied to a top LAC back east, was supported by the coach, but nothing would be provided in writing. I asked the coach to check with admissions and let us know if it was worthwhile for DD to spend the time and money to visit (this was in Jan) and he did so. Told us it was worth a visit (code for she's in, i think) and she did visit and did get in. She elected not to go back east, she just wanted to stay west coast, did not really check out the coach and team here the way she did the eastern schools and it was not a very good fit.</p>
<p>It was "fine" but it was not fun, not her style of play & motivation, not soulmates and BFFs on the team. She played 2 years, went all american, played abroad third year, and has not yet decided about spring, it depends on her schedule</p>
<p>BUT, she has always been an athlete, hates teams that don't gel, will do anything for the right motivational styled coach and a great group of girls. There is no big issue, it is just not as fun as it has been, and having been in sports forever, she has done every level from Rec to HS Varsity to travel teams to US Junior National, she knows from fun teams ;) </p>
<p>Have your athlete evaluate what about their sport and team experiences are important to them and look for those characteristics in their choices. The coach at her school is excellent, but their styles do not mesh well. I am sure the coach senses DDs lack of enthusiasm, too, and is disappointed.</p>
<p>That all being said, I think she chose the right school for her, she did not want to go away really and especially not far, she needed the ability to come home once mid term and more importantly have visitors from the family and connect with other lifelong friends in other schools in CA</p>
<p>hi rgbaseball,
If your son is in baseball, I'm pretty ignorant about that sport, but here's some general advice.</p>
<p>When you say "elite" do you mean academically selective? You can find out the ranges of SAT/ACT scores and GPAs that are admitted to the school. If your son is at the higher end of those brackets, even without the recruiting bump, he should be in very good shape. If he's at the lower end, you might have reason for concern! </p>
<p>Since you are saying you have stopped recruiting efforts, if it were me, I'd be asking this coach, point blank, what he means by offering his support in admissions.</p>
<p>If your son visits and loves the school, the next conversation might need to be: "Here are my son's application, academic stats and letters of recommendation. When you have "supported in admissions" other athletes with these numbers, have they been 100% successful in admissions?"</p>
<p>Our family has gone through recruiting with the Ivies, and brushed with DIII's. DIII coaches never offered anything in writing, just various degrees of "support in admissions" from some to none, depending on the school. Highly academically selective DIII's sometimes don't let the coaches have much say, in my experience. Not in every case, though! I don't know if this varies with the sport: maybe baseball coaches have more sway! And some highly regarded DIIIs also put a high value on their athletic teams. </p>
<p>Best wishes. I know this is a stressful time.</p>
<p>BTW- DD was a complete fit for stats of the top school's to which she applied, though it is still a roll of the dice, but she did not need a boost from the sports</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply and well wishes.Yes the DIII school is one of the very selective LA schools. And S's scores are above the 75th but GPA is probably average for admits, so he would have a good chance to be admitted regardless of the athletics. But you never know--they also deny kids with that profile. The coach is being very clear I just wanted to know if it is usual or possible to get the verbal commitment in writing. I will simply ask the coach, Ithink. Thanks again.</p>
<p>I don't think you'll get the verbal commitment in writing. I agree, this is the scariest part -- counting on a verbal commitment to be honored by some folks in a different office that <em>really</em> have the admission powers.</p>
<p>Even when my son verballed to an Ivy in July, and they verballed back in August after receipt of quick application, he didn't get his written likely letter until Thanksgiving. (Now, admittedly, thinking it over, he didn't get his actual application in until the deadline, so the likely letter came three weeks later ...)</p>
<p>If the DIII is where your son wants to be -- I would cross my fingers, go for it, and have a backup plan. Back up plan might include 2-3 other schools that are a fit, that have shown athletic interest, that you could call on 12/15 if the back up plan is necessary. Another backup plan, that worked well for us, is identifying a prep school for a post graduate year. THAT depends a lot on your kid and your finances -- but opens up doors that might otherwise not open.</p>
<p>Even at the bowl eligible schools, verbal commitments by athletes are non-binding. But these universities publicize these to try to scare off other colleges. The Ivies give likelies and do so even before any ED acceptances are announced. You can rely on the likely but are not bound. I do not know of any D3 schools that give likelies, but most are prepared to make requests for admission to admissions. You typically will not know the final admission decision until all the results are released and are under no obligation to accept.</p>
<p>I think everyone agrees that verbal agreements are only good faith commitments between coaches and athletes at selective schools. Admissions has the final say... however, I believe that there are concrete indicators that at least the coaches are commited to the athlete as opposed to simply being nice (" great to have you apply"). My youngest D had an exchange of emails after unofficial visit that memorialized her verbal to school and coach's commitment to place her on his recruitment list. This has been followed by invite to official visit in fall and finally a delivery of special envelops for her teacher recommendations. App is in and now we wait for promised likely letter and early action decision in December(and, believe me, won't be totally comfortable until official admit).</p>
<p>Congratulations and good luck to your daughter, nightsky! You know know whether her experience at this college is unique to her particular sport/coach - ie verbal commitment followed by completed application by Sept. 1?</p>
<p>peonies, my D was required to get her complete application in ASAP (long before Nov 1). At her final choice, the likely letter would not be sent until the ENTIRE application, including essays, test scores and teacher/GC recs could be evaluated by admissions.</p>
<p>I think all schools have their own systems. Since, I believe, my d is applying to same school riverrunner's d now attends, similar timeframes. her coaches want application in by Sept. 1 so that admissions can act before the other thousands of applications hit. And everything is geared to EA. Interestingly, one of d's good friends was recruited by Georgetown. It seems their recruits get push in regular admission. She was admitted then. Guess every school has its own timeframe and process.</p>