<p>JHS, I agree with you about the cultural bias evidenced in this thread. I think that is one of the reasons that I reacted so strongly to the discouraging comments that were posted about the OP-daughter's qualifications. I thought her accomplishments were amazing! I didn't understand why everyone was so quick to treat them with disdain. I did not get the sense at all that the child was being pushed or manipulated by a parent.</p>
<p>JHS - Very thoughtful post. I do think that the Blair Horstein(sp?) story makes everyone suspicious when kids' ECs are connected to their parents too closely. And perhaps the cultural conflicts are as deep seated as the hero narratives to which you refer. But as a non-WASP, the literature that left the greatest impression on me as a kid was the "family muddles through" genre: A Tree Grows In Brooklyn, Mama's Bank Account, Little House on the Prarie. Plenty of immigrant stories in our American tradition are not WASPy in the least, and certainly celebrate the hero who sacrifices for the good of the family.</p>
<p>calmom: I always appreciate when you remind everyone of your d's story. She is exactly the type of kid who someone looking for bias against Asians would point to as evidence. I'm glad there is room in the admissions system to consider kids like her and see how worthwhile she is as a candidate.</p>
<p>padad has claimed anti-Asian bias in the past. That's why I mentioned the big chip on his shoulder. Although I thought the tone of his post was enough to illustrate its presence.</p>
<p>I'm certainly not an expert on Mandarin children's lit, but I'll bet it doesn't include a lot of books about families that pull up stakes repeatedly and move to the middle of nowhere without their parents. (And, anyway, I never liked the Little House books much. Too goody-goody, too racist about Indians. And are you going to tell me that Laura gets into MIT? On the other hand, Caddie Woodlawn rules!)</p>
<p>You don't have to be WASPy to have the kind of Western hero narratives I'm talking about. Chaim Potok, Isaac Bashevis Singer, and Zora Neale Hurston do similar things, too.</p>
<p>emeraldkitty4: could you elaborate on the "tufts syndrome." Curious since D just started there................</p>
<p>Calmon, the "negative number" was related to me by three separate college admission consultants, who are supposedly reputable and claim to be comprised of former adcom officers. I presume that you can "shop around" yourself to obtain the same information. As related to me, elite colleges with large applicant pools use a computerized scoring system in the first round that takes into account of various factors to reflect different expectation of standardized test scores. For example, applicants who will be first generation college students are expected to have lower test scores, and it is done by adding a "positive number" onto the computerized score in that section. Asians students are expected to have high test scores and is adjusted in the program accordingly. Applicants whose computerized scores fail to make the cutoff are triaged and are not brought into discussion. </p>
<p>I apologize if my post comes across as inflamatory. It is not intended to be so. I merely relate a piece of information that I believe to be accurate, and my intention was to warn the original poster, without explicitly saying so, that given her D's test scores, her application may not pass the first round where her fine EC's can be positively evaluated. I have stated elsewhere that I strongly believe that diversity is an important goal to be achieved in a college class, and if that goal puts an Asian applicant in the disadvantage, so be it.</p>
<p>JHS</p>
<p>You COULDN"T have read all the Little House books. "The Long Winter" is amazing and "These Happy Golden Years" contains a gripping (I mean it) psychological account of a woman totally losing her mind and becoming homicidal (if you've lived on the prairie in winter, you can relate). I've been there...not homicidal, but I could see it from where I was sitting.</p>
<p>I have to admit I'm shocked that Asian students maybe are penalized. I can understand no extra credit (though I hope recent immigrants still get extra credit), but hating people because they're beautiful (meaning smart and industious) is just bad. And should be against the law, if it isn't.</p>
<p>Really interesting cultural analysis...we are so individualistic in US and other cultures highlight other qualities.</p>
<p>My favorite book when I was in school & my older daughters when she was in grade school was
Island of the Blue Dolphins
Talk about an independent female protaganist!
and hardly WASPy at all ;)
highly recommended too.</p>
<p>my initial impression wasn't colored by the fact that she was working with her mother- but that it sounded like things that she did when she was 5 was going to be mentioned. ( also since my daughter had Reed as a first choice reach- you know it rubbed me the wrong way to have someone throw it out there as a safety)</p>
<p>No matter who it is or what you have done- I don't think you need to mention things you did as a kindergartner- because if you are still involved in that sort of activity- it will be evident from your current responses and if you aren't involved in the activity- then it doesn't seem relevant.
Has nothing to do with racial bias- but against "trying too hard". </p>
<p>When I mentioned that my daughter had over 2000 hours in one volunteer activity( a while ago) I was slammed because she couldn't possibly- even though I was very clear about that she had begun when she was 12 and also * it was an activity that she continued till she was 18 and aged out*
she did mention the volunteer hours although she didn't mention things she had done when she was younger like CTY- because you really only have so much room on those applications</p>
<p>The Tufts syndrome as applied to admissions- I didn't come up with the term- Seems to be when a well qualified student applies to Tufts- but also other slightly more "prestigous" schools. Its been explained that Tufts in wanting to increase the yield ( students who are admitted- who attend) they may decline well qualified students that they think may end up actually going elsewhere.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_protection%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_protection</a></p>
<p>Reed has been used- in the past- as a "safety" for a few people who want a very competitive school- but not necessarily Reed- whether because they are interested in more name recognition or they just don't want to wear birkenstocks.
This is when they had lower yield- as when their applicants also were accepted to UChicago or Swarthmore, went on to attend at those schools instead.
However- Reeds popularitly has increased quite a bit- for one reason and another- and there are many students who want it as their first choice- and are able to communicate that. However- I imagine there will still be students who tag it on- because it is a good school- but it is far from their first choice.
Since this past year- acceptances went down to 44%- it appears that Reed is getting enough applications to fill the class with those who really convey that they want to be at Reed- which is quite a different place- so I can see them turning down applications, from students that seem to be using it as a safety.
I don't really know though- but it sounds logical to me.</p>
<p>Then again- I have been on principal hiring committees, when we received two resumes that made the final cut, where the packet was clearly slanted for a position at a different school ( whats more the other school was named) We even ended up hiring one of the principals!
( Who stayed there 3 years and then went to the school that she wanted to go to in the first place)</p>
<p>"
You COULDN"T have read all the Little House books."</p>
<p>I always liked the line in the Happy Golden Years when Alonzo asks Laura if he she would like a ring. And she says "That would depend on who gave it to me." Then he says, "And if I were the man?" To which she replies, "Then it would depend on the ring."</p>
<p>My D's emailed some of her essays to me. It would be great if some of you could rea over them, as I do not know much about college essays. They are, in my opinion, very strong, very untraditional, and very her.</p>
<p>She has also insisted that since she has expanded her number of "lower end" schools, she's going to be adding more "higher end" schools, which I think means Dartmouth, Harvard, and Stanford are back on.</p>
<p>Thank you frazzled for the info on Vanderbilt. I think she's excited about Vanderbilt because it is one of the few landlocked schools that meets her standards.</p>
<p>Momwaitingfornew: Yes, I believe it was 44 valedictorians. But I think about 10 of them went to Stanford. The controversy wasn't exactly on the sheer number of valedictorians in general, but about race. Garfield is a very diverse school. I believe the statistics are 25% Asian, 30-40% Black, etc. However, there was only one black valedictorian. And from the picture, he looked half black.</p>
<p>It will be mentioned on the counselor's letter that her GPA is ranked unweighted, that she takes the most rigorous course offerings, and specifically asks the college to re-weight them.</p>
<p>I think colleges know well enough that statistics are not everything. Even top-tier ones. Einstein was not the best student, but he revolutionized the world.</p>
<p>cangel: I do not think she has a "overwhelming desire" to go east. More east coast schools just seem to meet her standards than west.</p>
<p>padad: Thank you for your comment. Although I think the negative number is a rumor. That is illegal in the United States because it is discrimination based upon race. It would be something colleges get sued over. I'm wondering where you heard about this?</p>
<p>I have however, heard about the Asian SATs, where Asian students are expected to score significantly higher than white applicants at a school, because the school is just so used to seeing high-scoring Asians. I'm not sure if I have seen it yet though, our friends' children tend to get into the schools they expected to get into, whether it was UW, NYU, or Harvard.</p>
<p>Suze: What is the name of the book written by Golden? I would like to read it.</p>
<p>Yes, we have been warned by many not to mention the mom-chinese-activities debacle. But my D has decided to talk extensively about it in her applications. It is a large part of her life of course, and she does have confidence that it shows how much she contributes to various aspects of her life. I can't complain, it is much better to have her loving China than loathing it like I see many Chinese-Americans children do.</p>
<p>I do think my D is feeling the pressures of cultural bias, which is one of teh reasons she is so worried these days. According to her, she does not know very many Asians planning on not going to te state school with lower statistics than hers. She might have a better list of ecs and experience, but not academicly.</p>
<p>blucroo: Tufts has been known as the university that kids who get rejected from Ivies go to. And thus, if Tufts thinks that a candidate is using them as a safety school, they will reject them.</p>
<p>padad: Now that you mentioned the computerized system, the "numbers" system, I am starting to think that the Asian negative number rumor might have some base to it. I am well aware that many colleges "rank" applicants during the first few rounds. For example, the scale might be from 1 to 20, 20 being the best and most qualified. Respective admissions officers will rank applicants using that scale. At the end, they will take the candidates who have received, for example, a ranking from 17 through 20.</p>
<p>Although colleges claim to have not use "quotas", it is quite obvious that they unofficially do. Look what happened to the UCs when race was not factored in, the number of Asians rose significantly. Although, yes, I must admit that being stereotyped as hard-working and high-scoring is better than other stereotypes.</p>
<p>emeraldkity: The story you mentioned on the bottom is probably another reason why my D is much more into name. She knows she is going into business, and business is all about the name, presentation, etc.</p>
<p>"Too goody-goody, too racist about Indians."</p>
<p>I actually don't think they are racist about Indians if you read them carefully. I remember in one of them - one of the characters gives the standard manifest destiny mantra - farming is a higher use of the land so we deserve it, and Pa gives the Indian point of view. He's quite sympathetic, while at the same time you get a good picture of the white settlers fears about the other.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Many of the elite colleges in this country work through the first batch of their applications by a scoring system that automatically adds a "negative number" to an Asian applicant, irrespective of the individual's degree of "Asian-ness".<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Hmm---never heard about this negative Asian number thing. I'll have to keep my ear to the ground and listen for it. </p>
<p>All schools (well, except for the UCs) work to make sure that one group doesn't overwhelm a class. One mother related to me a conversation she had with someone at Santa Clara who said that if he went strictly by the numbers, the freshman class would be 70% female! So in that case, it pays to be male...</p>
<p>Links discussing race in college admissions...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004079.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004079.html</a>
<a href="http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7945858%5B/url%5D">http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7945858</a>
<a href="http://www.*********.com/thread.php?thread_id=501154&mc=78&forum_id=1%5B/url%5D">http://www.*********.com/thread.php?thread_id=501154&mc=78&forum_id=1</a>
Ok, so the last link isn't letting me fix it. It says "auto admit" in the midde where the ****s are minus the spaces</p>
<p>
[quote]
Calmon, the "negative number" was related to me by three separate college admission consultants, who are supposedly reputable and claim to be comprised of former adcom officers. I presume that you can "shop around" yourself to obtain the same information.
[/quote]
Do you mean like the reputable and very well known college admission consultant who told me that Barnard was "very strict" about SAT scores and that my daughter should not even bother to apply with less than a 1400?</p>
<p>Yanimated, I would LOVE to read your daughter's essays! Please PM me.</p>
<p>Calmom, did your daughter have a hook like low income, innercity school/bad public or first generation?</p>
<p>I can see the point about business-and the name being important
I know a boy who went to Harvard & now he can get tutoring clients on the basis of that degree :)
I also imagine that it might be easier in some cases to get investors/bank loan officers to give you money if they are impressed.
BUt on the other hand- when you look at many CEOs of companies, they don't have "prestigous name here" degrees.
The CEO of REI for example, her degree is from the UW in mechanical engineering.
Especially if you are going to stay local, I have heard that the connections you make in the alum network are more important than if you have a big name on your diploma.
Still some business schools are quite prestigious- I don't know anything about the Harvard program though- but I have heard students talk about UPenns program-
so it is probably half of one...</p>
<p>I am pretty sure my D will be going abroad for much of her career. She's planning on focusing her business studies on Asia and the Middle East, hence the Chinese and Arabic. But yes, I understand.</p>
<p>EDing Hunstman--this girl sounds way too ambitious to be planning to stay local. I have to agree with her, ivies and the like play well for a business career. I'm interning at a major ibank. Hard to find anyone here who didn't go to a very top school.</p>
<p>although my brothers brother in law is up there at Worldbank and he went to UColorado- I do see the point
for those working abroad- name recognition is important.</p>
<p>Yes, now we just hope a nice school will notice that and take her.</p>