<p>Hello, fellow CC parents. My daughter (or should I say my "D") introduced me to this wonderful website a few days ago and I've been reading the forums quite frequently ever since. But introductions aside, I suppose I should get to the issue. </p>
<p>Long story short, my daughter, who is unusually pessimistic for her age, decided to apply to Harvard and Yale because she liked the schools after visiting the campuses and talking to a few current students. (Of course, she also applied to several UCs and state universities as well.) But after reading the CC forums, she has become rather disillusioned, thinking that her chances are completely nonexistent due to her lack of significant extracurricular activities. Even though I wish I could tell her otherwise, I find it hard to argue with her on this issue. Although her standardized test scores are about average for Harvard/Yale applicants, her other activities seem to be less than exceptional. Worse yet, she was quite critical of herself in her application essays, which the adcoms are probably not going to like. So far, my efforts to comfort her have been unsuccessful.</p>
<p>I understand that it is normal for kids to be worried after applying to such a competitive school, and perhaps there is no other solution except for my daughter to just pull herself together and get over this. But still, I can't help but feel... a bit useless to see my daughter being so disappointed (and she hasn't even been rejected yet...). Is there anything else I can do?</p>
<p>She has a right to be worried about not getting into H or Y. 9 out of 10 applicants don't get in. Maybe she is just trying to cushion the blow for you. Some parents just don't understand the reality of acceptance rates to super-selective schools. (But if she does get in, bells will ring!)</p>
<p>At our house, we emphasize the other great schools that D has applied to. Getting into a super-selective school would be nice, but she has more irons in the fire than the low percentage ones. She knows that, no matter what, she'll be off in the fall for a great college experience. </p>
<p>Please tell me that your D has other schools to which she's applied that interest her...</p>
<p>Well, she is also looking forward to attending UC Berkeley, since most of her friends would probably end up there. But unfortunately, she has become so insecure that she is also beginning to worry about not getting into UCs...</p>
<p>Ellemenope is right, if you are going to apply to such selective schools, you have to ready yourself for rejection, because the odds are that is exactly what will happen.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I think it's not always a good idea to judge yourself against people who post on CC, because it's so easy to pick at your own application and find areas where you don't match up. There will always be people who have higher scores or more APs or better ECs, and I suppose it is human nature to think that they will be more desirable to a school than you are. But a look at the acceptances always shows that there are people whose CC-posted profile seems amazing and who didn't get in, and people whose profile seems less starry who do.</p>
<p>I would tell your D that even to be in a position to consider applying to Harvard and Yale means that she has done really well. And if she doesn't get in to H and Y, that will not change. Talk about how great the other schools she has on her list are, what fun she will have there and how successful she can be. I think Harvard and Yale should never be the focus of anyone's college discussions, they should be a happy bonus and if you get them, well lucky you, and if not, nothing is lost.</p>
<p>Maybe it would cheer her up to start thinking about college life and how much fun it will be to be away at school next year where-ever she goes. She could read "The Naked Roommate" for practical tips. She could look at extracurricular activities on line at two or three schools she is pretty certain to get into. She could spend a weekend visiting a friend in her dorm room.</p>
<p>My daughter, who also had Harvard/Yale level academic credentials but routine extracurricular activities, is so pessimistic that she didn't even bother to apply to Harvard, Yale, or the other few schools at their level. She limited herself to one-level-down-from-HYPS schools because she realized that she didn't have the "something special" that you need to have a realistic chance at the very top colleges.</p>
<p>We're on the East Coast, so UCs didn't factor into her choices, but she's now a sophomore at her first choice one-level-down school and is doing well there. If your daughter doesn't luck out at Harvard or Yale, she will probably have a similarly good experience at one of her one-level-down schools. </p>
<p>The UCs are great places. My other offspring, who graduated from college last May, applied to four of them for graduate school and had the good fortune to be able to choose between two of them -- UCLA and UCSD. He chose UCSD because he preferred the professors who would be his advisors there, and he loves the place.</p>
<p>It might help to remind your daughter of the many disadvantages associated with attending HYPS-the difficulty of standing out from the crowd, the competition with grad students for (very, very limited) faculty attention, the competitiveness to participate in some extracurricular activities, the lack of professional impact a few years after graduation, the large class sizes at the into levels, the cost, etc...</p>
<p>CC is a wonderful resource, but it can have the unfortunate side-effect of persuading outstanding kids that if they don't go to an Ivy, MIT or Stanford, they've failed and missed out on life. That's just wrong. If your D has H/Y-type credentials , then she should be a strong applicant for UCB, UCLA, UCSD as well as the Claremont Colleges and any number of distinctive and wonderful schools off the west coast. Creating a college list of "Reaches," "Targets," "Safeties," and "Financial Safeties" is not only a good strategy, it's a good psychological management tool. I have two Ds at one of their reaches, which is nice, but we made a point of really focusing on their favorite target schools. Then, the reach just seems like gravy if it works out.</p>
<p>Sometimes going out on a limb works. My D applied to a reach school - whe is NOT in the top 10% of her class (more like the top 20-30%), her SATs are lower than the norm, her grades aren't quite up there but it is the school that she fell in love with and her eassay's showed it. She also applied ED. Well in Dec. she was accepted. She will be attending the school that she wanted and if she had just looked at the numbers she probably wouldn't have applied. Yes it could have gone the other way but if you don't take the chance then you don't have any hope.</p>
<p>Honestly, it may be best for these pessimistic kids not attend any of the Ivies if by some slight chance they do manage to gain acceptance. The competition and stress to achieve at the schools of that caliber is such that a student needs to have a bit of a thick skin to make it there. A good sense of personal confidence is needed to survive. They will be surrounded by the best of the best and unless they have a good deal of inner confidence, they may find that the social and academic environment may not be the right fit for them.</p>
<p>If she's really worried and insecure...the most useful way I've found to deal with that sort of excessive worry is to work on a backup plan that I'd be happy with.</p>
<p>My daughter introduced me to CC, but she quickly stopped reading it. All it did was make her feel depressed and insecure -- she referred to it as "demonic" in its relentlessly distorted view of the world and of human values.</p>
<p>I enjoy CC immensely, but I would never recommend that a kid read it, for just that reason. There's lots of valuable information, but it comes with too much baggage.</p>
<p>Meanwhile: Yes, applicants overwhelmingly don't get into Harvard or Yale. So it's important to focus on other opportunities and to build enthusiasm for other institutions. Which shouldn't be hard, because everything that's wonderful about Harvard and Yale is available in practically the same quality and quantity at myriad universities. Also, recognize that from now through early April is a period of high stress in the lives of smart, ambitious 12th-graders. It doesn't take much to get some of them anxious and depressed, doubting themselves. If it isn't CC, there are many other stimuli that can do the trick. Time (and final decisions by the colleges and the applicants) fixes that problem pretty well.</p>
<p>What's done is done. I would waste no time or energy reassuring her about her applications to H or Y. She will probably feel better if she gets an early yes from a school she can see herself attending. But, if she is truly a pessimistic person, then I would focus more on that then I would on reassuring her about college admissions. The books by Martin Seligman would be a great place to start.</p>
<p>I think this is a tough time for many seniors - applications are all turned in and the wait begins for results. If your D has finished all her applications perhaps you could suggest some new activities or hobbies or a weekend trip just to take her mind off waiting for decisions. My D's new boyfriend and a part-time job seem to be helping in that regard.</p>
<p>iObject,
I'm currently a freshman and I remember when I first started applying to the Ivies, I felt extremely pessimistic towards myself. It was so bad that I got a worse writer's block when it came to writing my application essays. So what I did was I thought really hard and listed reasons for applying and for not applying. What schools was I REALLY interested in? Turns out that I didn't care for Ivies as much as I expected. Although I still applied my dream schools and was either rejected or waitlisted, I feel better knowing if I would be accepted or not after applying. Set your daughter down and have a serious talk with her. Don't let her regret later not applying to her dream colleges. You don't know, admission processes are so difficult to predict. You don't know if you don't try and if you don't try, you'll end up regretting that didn't try. In the end, she'll be able to pick the college that is best suited for her. Colleges don't accept you if they don't think you can do the work. In any instance, I ended up being accepted to one of my dream schools which I am currently attending.</p>
<p>I wish I had advice. My S' dream school was UChicago. He got deferred EA, then wait listed and never got off the waiting list. He was miserable. He is also naturally very pessimistic about everything and always has been. </p>
<p>He now attends his second choice, a private LAC that he has a 4.0 at, and is still pining for UChicago. He has no interest in partying at all, and even though he is at a school known for serious students with minimal partying, it is still "too much for him". He is a freshman and I hope he can get past it. </p>
<p>We have always been so positive and encouraging about the school he attends (which we do think is a great place), but I know deep down he will always regret not getting to go there for undergrad. I really feel he was a perfect match for UChicago too, but I never bring it up.</p>
<p>bbkitty,
My top dream schools were Johns Hopkins and Rice Univ. I was rejected and waitlisted as well. Although ND is by no means easy to get into, I often feel the same way. However, perhaps his interest in not partying is not because of this reason. I don't party and do not go out often but that is not because of the resentment that I have had. More of it is because I'm still transitioning and still figuring out if this is the right university for me. More and more though, I am learning to find out the type of person I am. I'm not one for parties, but I enjoy doing other things. Time is everything though. Give your son time. So far, it sounds like you're doing a splendid job. Just keep encouraging him. If all else fails, he can apply later as a transfer student.</p>
<p>@iObject: Ban your daughter from reading CC, right now. It breeds insecurity based on wildly embellished (or sometimes just highly optimistic) student profiles. If I had set geek_son loose on CC before the application deadline, I'm certain he'd never have applied to his dream school, which he'll be attending with a merit scholarship this September.</p>
<p>The other advice here (about building good backup plans and recognizing that Ivy admissions are a crapshoot for even the very best students) is good. Visit more schools, not just Ivies, to broaden her horizons; ultimately she'll probably understand that there are many colleges she can attend, get a great education, and fit in happily with her peers.</p>
<p>Also, CC can be a time-sucking black hole. Her time would be better spent maintaining her academic strength and pursuing the activities she loves.</p>
<p>Just my opinion. :)</p>
<p>Edit: I just re-read and understood that she's a senior who's put in her applications. You might try what I did to help geek_son cope with the wait: Extol the virtues of the safety for her. Specifically, full ride scholarships (in his case, enough to buy a new laptop every year), housing priority, special classes and events, individual attention, and generally being treated like a god among mere mortals. I think that works better than tearing down the disadvantages of being "average" at a Tier 1 school. I overheard him talking about that later (Naw, I wasn't nervous -- I figured, worst case, I'll go to Big State U for free and get treated like a god), so I know it worked pretty well. ;)</p>