<p>You really should have her talk to an attorney in the state where she lives and the state where her father lives if it is different. In some states, it is quite common for a court to compel a non-custodial parent to pay a proportionate (based on income)share of the cost of state U. (He can be ordered to pay this amount, even if the kid opts for a more expensive private college.) My understanding is that this is the case in NY, though this is not legal advice. </p>
<p>If the father agreed to pay this in wiriting, then the young woman may be able to bring an action for breach of contract, as a third party beneficiary. (Again, this is not legal advice.) </p>
<p>I’d tell her to call her local bar association legal referral service and find out what the cost for a consultation is. If it’s minimal, she should get together any proof she has and go see an attorney. </p>
<p>Once again I stress that if you get divorced, bargain over college money THEN, no matter how young your kids are, and incorporate any agreement you reach in the decree, if that’s possible in your state.</p>
<p>There was a thread recently on the same topic. Somebody gave a link to a site which summarizes state’s laws on this issue, I think. Do a search.</p>
<p>You said the dad and daughter are estranged since the divorce. Maybe it would be a good time for daughter to call dad up and go out to lunch? Sometimes that’s all it takes…</p>
<p>I think she should take the loans (if available) and go to Brown. This way, she will at least have the Brown degree/experience under her belt, which offers the potential for a high-income career. Maybe her jerk father will come through and pay off the loans, or live a short life and leave an inheritance to her to pay it off. If she lets the opportunity go, she will forever hate her father for denying her this opportunity. That is no way to go through life.</p>
<p>Redondo Dave,
Does Brown’s “full grant” package have an expectation that the D will contribute COA-student earnings-(7500* each parent)= FA grant amount,
or is it COA-(7500*each parent)= amount of grant (non-repayable) FA? The basic Q is – does the FA package already include loans or student earnings?</p>
<p>If the package does NOT include loans or student earnings, $7500 a year isn’t so bad to make up – $4000 in student earnings during the year and summer plus $3500 in subsidized Stafford (I am assuming she’d qualify for sub since she’s getting a substantial FA package). Alternatively, she could reduce the student earnings and increase the Stafford.</p>
<p>Even if this young woman took full Staffords (before the new increase) for four years to help cover her father’s share, she’d be looking at $19K in loans. To me, that is an acceptable debt load, esp. for a student who is getting the advantage of an Ivy education. (This is also the debt load we expect our own kids to assume, so my personal bias about ‘skin in the game’ is clear.) In that case, the difference in debt is $11,000 over four years. That’s a big difference between 19k in Stafford plus 30K in PLUS/other loans.</p>
<p>I hate to see kids miss out on opportunities when, with some finessing, it may be possible. I had to turn down Duke, even with a scholarship.</p>
<p>My D will have 30K in debt…it is not insurmountable. If this young lady earned and wants Brown that badly, she should go for it. Her Brown education will pay off in spades in the long run…I suspect this is a person of integrity and drive who will succeed. I’d encourage her to go for it…but also explore legal options as mentioned and have Mom call Brown. Have an appt if possible (depends on where you live). Mom’s financials may change and she would be kicking herself for passing up this opportunity. My D’s friend is in a kind of similar situation. She got into Smith and will have waaay more than 30K debt when she graduates…but she is getting the education she worked hard to be eligible for, and feels its worth it. Good luck and you are wonderful for helping her.</p>
<p>I know it happens but I just don’t see how a ‘Dad’ could do this to his daughter. </p>
<p>Okay, more debt is best to avoid but if she can manage to get loans for this, I think she should consider going for it. $30K is about the price of an average car nowadays and really isn’t that big of a deal to pay off assuming she gets a reasonable job upon graduation which doesn’t seem that unlikely given that she’s going to Brown. If she’s willing to live with mom for the first year or two upon graduation she’d save enough to pay of the extra $30K. A gap year will cost her a year of career income which is likely to be much more than the $30K. It needs to be put into perspective.</p>
<p>No. The gap year would enable her to apply to other schools, perhaps some that would give her merit money.
I’m assuming that a loan of $30k would actually translate into a debt of $40k.<br>
What is a reasonable job? How much would it pay?
Could she reasonably expect to be able to pay back $5k per year for the next 8 years, save to buy car (mom is already holding two jobs, so she’s not going to be able to help launch D); save for her retirement, maybe to buy a condo down the line?</p>
<p>I don’t know why people think there is nothing worthwhile between Brown and Community College! Or that a gap year is such a bad idea. It’s actually encouraged by Harvard.</p>
<p>I’m with marite on this one…I have posted many times that I employ some highly paid people. Some of them are saddled with a lot of student loan debt. It really makes it tough for them to do the things like buy a condo or starter home, begin to think about marriage and family, etc.
There is lots of great merit aid out there. Lots of good education to be had between Brown and Community College.<br>
I’ll even stick my neck all the way out to say that some of those colleges in between will offer a lot of attention to a student who is highly bright and motivated in a way that Brown might not when that student is in a place where EVERYONE is a BWRK.</p>
<p>Did I read that she was admitted ED??? If so, her choices may only be Brown or CC, unfortunately. She probably had to withdraw all of her other apps and given that she got an adequate FA offer, so other schools will at this point not want to play.</p>
<p>I’m getting in line behind owlice to smack this one if he ever heads east.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The OP implied that she ‘really’ wanted to attend Brown. I agree that if she takes a gap year (assuming it’s too late for whatever else she’d consider for this year) she might very likely find some decent alternatives that would be a better financial deal, possibly including considering some UCs assuming she’s in-state, but they wouldn’t be ‘Brown’. It really depends on how much she has her heart set on Brown.</p></li>
<li><p>If she takes a gap year but still ends up at Brown with the same deal, she’s no further ahead and likely behind due to the loss of a year’s income.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I’m not casually stating to take on a lot of debt but depending on the job she might get and maybe the alternative living arrangements (living at home rent free, maybe using inexpensive transportation the first couple of years) it might be worth consideration. For example, if she could live at home and forego a $1200/month apartment cost that’d be $14400 per year cash she could use to pay down the loan. The problem with this latter part would be the unknown of what she’s doing after Brown - grad school, work in a different city, etc. It’d also require that the mother agrees to the plan. </p>
<p>Hopefully at some point the father will see the error of his ways, his conscience will get the better of him, and he’ll follow through on his commitment.</p>
<p>There are too many unknowns in the post-college scenario. A $40k debt (the project $7.500, probably rising to $10k by year four plus interest will severely constrict her choice of career (and this at a time when many college graduates are grateful to have jobs with Teach for America).</p>
<p>My take is that if Brown will not budge, forget about Brown. I’m sorry but this is not the first student who will have to forego a dream college for another one more affordable. Forget about Brown, apply to other schools (and not ED!) including HYPS and schools that give merit as well as UCs. If she wants to attend a CC then transfer, fine. But I dislike it when posters blithely assume that there are great paying jobs out there just waiting for Ivy League graduates to pick up just because they graduated from an Ivy (Barrons, where are you when we need your state uni boosterism?).
Inexpensive transportation? Ha! My S has to drive 20 miles each way to his job that does not pay as high as what we used to spend on his college tuition. He is driving our old car, so that’s one less expense, but transportation is still an important item in his budget. $200 a barrel of oil is just around the corner. Talking of which, does the $7.5k shortfall cover travel from CA to the East Coast and back? books and incidentals? Or are we looking at an even bigger debt?
Something else to think about: If the student were to assume the debt and attend Brown, would she really enjoy herself if she had to spend most of her spare time working and had to watch every penny she spent and worried about what kind of majors she should pursue in order to land that supposedly lucrative career?</p>
<p>Marite - I agree with you regarding the unknowns post-grad. This is probably the biggest factor. Your point about the additional cost due to coast to coast transportation is a good one, especially with air travel going up. Assuming 2-3 trips per year it adds up.</p>
<p>I also agree that one doesn’t need to go to an Ivy for good job prospects and that an Ivy degree is no guarantee. OTOH it doesn’t hurt either. </p>
<p>I do think that ‘value’ needs to be placed on someone’s ‘wants’. Plenty of students attend colleges other than Brown and have great experiences and fine job prospects. But plenty of families and students, probably many of them on CC, seem to place enough value on their choice to enter a certain amount of debt for it. Unfortunately that debt might be too intangible up front only to come back and be all too tangible later when they have to pay it back but it’s really a very individual decision as to the sacrifices they’re willing to make to attend a particular college.</p>
<p>Well, I’m carrying quite a bit of debt for my Ss’ education. But I can pay it back (far better than either of them can!); and I entered into it knowing-- not guessing or hoping-- that I could pay it back. I also wanted to enable my sons to graduate free of debt. </p>
<p>It was not wrong for the young woman to apply ED to Brown, on the understanding that her dad would help her out. And the dad is a cad and a scoundrel for reneging on his commitment.
But had she not gotten in, she would have applied elsewhere, gotten admitted somewhere and been happy. That happens in 90% of the cases. No one should think that there is only one school that can fulfill one’s dreams, that none else will do.</p>
<p>If she were to graduate with $20k of debt, I’d say, go for it. But I’m looking at a more probable $40k, a mother who already works two jobs and is stretched to her limit, and I’m reluctant to recommend that she go to Brown and incur that debt.</p>
<p>I should note that for freshman year Brown eliminates the idea of “work study” and replaces it with a grant, but for sophomore through senior year, the EFC will go up to include the work study requirement. </p>
<p>If the daughter hasn’t been in contact with her father for a long time, then there might be a way to get him cut out. It’s a difficult process, but I do know people here who managed to get their loser deadbeat fathers factored out of the financial aid agreement. However, these were usually fathers who had a track record of uh never paying child support either.</p>
<p>“I just don’t see how a ‘Dad’ could do this to his daughter.”
I know quite a few students at Brown whose wealthy fathers have screwed them over by creating a really high EFC while simultaneously refusing to pay a dime. That, along with other things, was enough to make me stop talking to mine.</p>
<p>^^ In this case it’s worse than refusing to pay - it’s first promising to pay setting a level of expectation along with a series of events into action (appying to Brown and accepting the spot) and then backing out for reasons that don’t appear to be due to financial necessity.</p>