<p>marite, my post was in response to sybbie’s, about how an outside scholarship would be used, and assumed not that the student would get one, but what could happen if she did.</p>
<p>UCLA Band Mom, if that’s what the father is trying to accomplish, it seems a very odd way to go about it. He’s the adult, so if he wants to repair the relationship, I should hope that he would go about doing so in an adult manner.</p>
<p>sybbie, do we know whether the student has any outside scholarships at this point? I don’t recall reading anything about her having them. As I mention above, I’m assuming she doesn’t have any now, and that your post was referred to what could happen in future years should she get one, and it was with that assumption that I was responding.</p>
<p>So, 33k (over four years, including tuition increase) at 8.5% (more realistic) plus 2% origination fee works out to $418/month for 10 years. Income needed is $50,100/year - doable (but only if not in a high-rent city). However, interest will start to accrue and need to be paid as soon as the loan starts, and there will be no delay for repayment if the student decides to go to graduate school (basically ruling graduate school out).</p>
<p>I understand what you were trying to put across and wanted to point out that any more scholarship would go toward reducing the amount of finaid Brown was giving her, not the amount she, her mother, and her father were liable for. In other words, unless I’m misinterpreting Brown’s policy, I do not see the use of hoping that the $7.5k per year would disappear in subsequent years. If she cannot appeal to Brown now, I do not see how she could make a better case next year. </p>
<p>Regarding Mini’s scenario: I know that there are higher-paying jobs than the one my S has. But I like to budget prudently. He lives in a moderate rent area but makes well below $50k per year.</p>
<p>“Yes, mini, that’s a worst-case scenario for the debt. Not the only option, but a worst-case scenario for the debt.”</p>
<p>Actually, that’s a much better than average case scenario for debt. The interest rate is lower than most, and I assumed she could get a job at $50k a year without living in a major high-rent city.</p>
<p>A number of people had mentioned that if the student were to find and receive some scholarships (post 18,26,46 & 54), that perhaps that would close the gap in the 15k that the family will need for the student to attend Brown. The point that I am trying to make that if the student does indeed find and get outside scholarships, it is still not going to help her cause as far as Brown is concerned because any outside scholarships would first clear up her self help aid (work studies and loans that the school gave her as part of their financial aid package. Under their new FA plan, she probably won’t have any). If she does take stafford loans to help pay the EFC, she will still owe that $$ upon graduation as outside scholarships would not absorb this debt.</p>
<p>What we also have to remember that parents paying for college is more of a social and/or a moral obilgation. It is definitely not a legal one and while we may think it is wrong and a slimmy thing, dad is perfectly with in his right not to pay for his child’s education.</p>
<p>mini, you don’t know whether the student will indeed have to borrow that much; you are assuming she does. That may not be the case; a worst-case scenario from the standpoint of the amount she has to borrow. Maybe she would have to borrow it, but … maybe not.</p>
<p>marite, I don’t know; that’s why I asked sybbie the questions I asked.</p>
<p>From her post, quoting Brown:</p>
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</p>
<p>The family contribution is at this point $15K. Her mother is paying half of that; the father was supposed to pay the other half, but is not, so now, the student has to pick up that cost. The only way she has to do this right now is probably loans. (We don’t know that that is necessarily true, but that is IMO a good assumption.)</p>
<p>So… she borrows $7.5K for the upcoming school year, and during the year, applies to all the scholarships she can find. Maybe she gets one for $1K. Next year, she works during the summer and earns the (presumably) expected $3K. Brown is expecting her to put that toward tuition. (Is it? Do we know that? No, we don’t, but let’s assume for the sake of argument that it does.) Student lets Brown know about the $1K outside scholarship; Brown reduces the “standard summer earnings expection” by $1K as a result, so expects the $1K from the scholarship to be applied to tuition and expects $2K from the student’s summer earnings.</p>
<p>The student still has $1K from her student earnings to apply toward tuition, applies it, and takes out a loan for $6.5K instead of the $7.5K she borrowed last year.</p>
<p>Yes?</p>
<p>That’s how I’m reading it. Could be wrong.</p>
<p>But from what the OP stated, it could be that Brown is expecting $15K from the FAMILY. Sure, dad agreed to pick up half of that and the mother the other half. Student doesn’t have to pay anything under that scenario. (We don’t know whether that is or is not the case, do we?) Student earns $3K this summer and will, because her dad’s a bum, has to now 1.) apply that to tuition; 2.) borrow $4.5K to cover the shortfall; 3.) probably work some during the year for her ongoing expenses.</p>
<p>We don’t know whether it will help or not. We don’t have the details. We don’t know how that $15K broke down; we know from the OP’s post how the family was going to cover the gap between Brown’s largesse and the COA – dad, $7.5K; mom, $7.5K – but we don’t know what Brown was including in its largesse. Student contribution? Maybe, or maybe, that’s covered in the $15K. </p>
<p>Brown may be expecting her to earn $3K/summer. Does Brown’s financial aid typically expect a student to earn money during the summer for tuition? Is that $3K part of the $15K the mom and dad were going to split? Is her dad going to come East so a bunch of us can slap him? </p>
<p>I don’t know. Can I hope that the answer to one or more of those questions is yes? :D</p>
<p>We don’t know. It sound like the 15K is the amount of $$ that the parents are suppose to come up with. Worse case scenario, if student’s $3k is in this amount, then the parents will have to come up with $12k.</p>
<p>Almost none of the monies from student earnings go toward tuition. this money is used to pay for the student’s expenses (not covered by FA- which essentially covers tuition, room, board) while at school for the year; books and supplies, toiletries and various sundry items, entertainment, travel, etc.</p>
<p>Okay – in the second sentence, whose “conditions” were these? Brown’s? A familial agreement? (Does a college really say, in its financial aid package, “Mom will pay this much and Dad will pay this much?” I don’t know the answer to this, not having been through this. I seek enlightenment.)</p>
<p>Which “papers” had the dad completed? An agreement with Brown? That he signed? (That could perhaps be taken to court and… well, never mind; that’s another subject.) The PROFILE?</p>
<p>Don’t know. These things might make a difference, it seems to me, or maybe I’m just being thick.</p>
<p>From where I sit (in front of a computer), it appears that the worst case is that the student will have to borrow the $7.5K/year her dad was going to pay. That is the worst case. Are there ways to mitigate that? Maybe.</p>
<p>Hope she looks for the ways to see whether they are out there before she bails on this opportunity.</p>
<p>Wow. You guys are a wealth of information. The girl is going to be very appreciative of all the time you all have spent on her behalf. As always knowledge and knowing the rules of engagement gives you power. Again, Thanks,</p>
<p>In the case of custodial & non-custodial parents, each files their own css profile and are given an EFC based on their income/assets. The one thing about the non-custodial profile is that the information is not shared with the other parent.</p>
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<p>I don’t think that each parent’s EFC was exactly $7500 unless they both have equal incomes and assets. I think it was probably more of a family agreement and mom said that we will split this in half in order to keep the peace especially if ex makes considerably more $$. </p>
<p>If the father had not submitted his information or refused to submit info the student would have been out in the cold as far as receiving any kind of aid.</p>
<p>What must also be taken into consideration is that tuition increases on average about 4 to 5% a year.</p>
<p>If mom is denied a parent loan, then the max that student could borrow is </p>
<p>9500 freshman year
10,500 sophomore year
12,500 junior year
12,500 senior year</p>
<p>At this rate she woudl be $45,000 in debt at graduation. </p>
<p>She must also keep in mind incidential charges above the cost of tuition/room & board like flying from coast to coast. If mom is stretching to make the $7500 student may have to make a lot of sacrifices like not coming home for thanksgiving because winter break is so soon afterwards and possibly not coming home for spring break in order to save the $$ to come home for the summer. There may be ECs that cost $$ (skiing) that student may not be able to participate in. If mom does not have adequate health insurance, the student would have to purchase the school’s plan and the list goes on.</p>
<p>She can’t waste next year at a community college or gap year, etc. Go to Brown next year, borrow 7.5k get one year of high quality college. Next fall apply to other places. It is much easier to transfer from brown to flagship state university than the other way around. Then see what comes up. There might be scholarships at a good place. (This reason for transfer is a pretty good story and many a place would be proud to snatch up a brown student under this circumstance.) Or maybe Dad will come around. Or maybe Brown will come around. </p>
<p>In any event, the choice is not go to Brown and graduate with 30k in debt, or go to CC and take a gap year. She can go to Brown with the idea that she can transfer later if she can’t afford it.</p>
<p>This might be a good move except that there is usually less money available for finaid for transfer students. So this is something to be investigated very carefully.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned, but perhaps she could become an RA after her first year? That could potentially shave a good chunk of the debt off. </p>
<p>RC’s(we don’t have RA’s) actually make much less than they do at most colleges. They make $2,450 per year, but still have to pay for their own room&board. It’s still a good option though–about 25% of applicants get the job.</p>
<p>Yah- I realized that (ridiculously cheap of Brown) reality after posting, hence the edit. But that amount of money would still be a pretty nice help.</p>
<p>I don’t know if Brown lets students defer their enrollment for a year (or if anyone suggested that), but wouldn’t doing that and working the entire time to save a little money be a better option (if her heart is set on Brown) than taking a gap year and re-applying to a bunch of schools?</p>