<p>The key phrase is: “…not be offered an award that makes attendance possible,…” That’s the standard which must be determined. A 100% loan financial aid package makes attendance possible. I don’t read this excerpt as stating “within the sole discretion of the applicant/student/family”. Schools calculate need. If that need is covered by any combination of grants, loans and/or work study, then attendance is possible.</p>
<p>Additional considerations often arise in divorce situations–a concern in this case.</p>
<p>Splitting hairs more than the colleges will.
A full loan package does not make a college magically affordable.</p>
<p>Consider the alternative: The school determines the aid is enough, attendance is somehow compelled, the student is expelled when the bill can’t be paid. It doesn’t happen. That’s why it’s solely the family’s decision.</p>
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<p>I’m not dead set on engineering, not at all, which is why I’m considering Kenyon. They have programs that also suit my interests and desires.</p>
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<p>I think that’s a good point. Thank you for doing the math, I had no idea that was information they posted. I’ll make sure to mention that, but I don’t think it’ll convince her either way.</p>
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<p>I’ve talked to him about this in the past (about a month ago), sorry if I forgot to mention this. He said he could pay around 10k a year with his current situation, and would be willing to take out loans if he needed to. I don’t have a doubt with my father, we’ve discussed it before and he does have a plan in place. Barring any major changes, he should be able to go through with his plan. </p>
<p>Thank you to both Axelrod, lookingforward and vonlost for ironing out the specifics of “need”, I really appreciate it. I’ll make sure to mention it to my mom when she gets home and I’ll have to see what she is going to say.</p>
<p>Well, I disagree with some of the above posts. But a more likely scenario is what happens when the applicant is awarded a financial aid package comprised mostly of loans & partially with grants. The student sees that he has been admitted to his dream school with the funds to pay for ir. The parents or a parent sees $40,000 per year in loans at x% interest that will amount to well over $160,000 when repayment time comes.
I know of several cases where students commit to private high schools, both boarding & day, but a change of heart occurs & legal actions follow.</p>
<p>Please consider that the school determines what a family can pay, not the family; that’s why both parents filled out & filed financial aid forms.</p>
<p>The problem I see is that if the OP is accepted ED to Columbia, the package offered with be a need only package since C does not give out any merit awards. The NPC should give a pretty good idea what COlumbia will be offering in terms of aid since it meets full need and no merit money is involved.</p>
<p>Kenyon, and other schools that have merit awards could end up being far more generous since the aid given can be way over the need figure. Also such schools may be more geneorus to some students than others in terms of defiining need and eligibility for certain need awards. It’s virtually impossible to predict what schools like this will end up costing since merit/aid determination will depend on how much the school wants the student. The OP could end up getting the full tution scholarship that his mother thinks he can get which would bring his costs down to under $15k at Kenyon whereas, it is highly unlikely that Columbia is going to give a dime more than what the NPC shows which appears to be about $30K.</p>
<p>My stance on this has always been that any student that needs money to go to college should not apply ED. Yes, you can back out of ED if the money you are offered is “not enough”. But the problem is that “not enough” can be so variable. Even schools that say they use the same aid formulas and do not have merit awards can come up with awards that vary as much as $10K per year, and that isn’t even addressing the definitions of aid. Some schools have student contributions amounts, some have loans, some integrate PELL and Unsubsidized Staffords, some use work study, some have merit within need that can give you more money than straight calculation of need, schools vary on how they look at various assets and other financial situations. Many forum members who have personally gone through this process with their kids have seen first hand how much the amounts can vary even among like school. Katwkittens and Sybbie, being two members that come to mind. And with ED you are lookng at an offer in isolation with now basis of comparison. </p>
<p>Basically, if the OP needs money from his mother, unless he can come up with a way to pay whatever is agreed that she will pay in college costs, he should withdraw his ED app and have it changed to RD. Otherwise, he could be in the situation where he has an offer in hand with no idea what the other offers might be, and a mother who refuses to pay what her pat of that cost is since she has now stated she is not on board with this until she sees what other options are out there. Basically, what she is saying is that if the OP gets merit/aid packages exceeding what the need figure from Columbia, she wants the OP to go to the college that offers more so that she pays less. So even if the situation is such where the OP applied RD to both schools, if Kenyon awards the OP the full tution scholarship, the mother does not want to pay her share of what Columbia wil cost. It is her right to make such a stiipulation. That she did so the way she did is a shame in that it has put a wrench in the ED works, but it is not too late to change the application to RD. </p>
<p>I suggest the OP talk to his dad and find out what the arrangements are, if any, regarding paying for college. How much is Dad going to pay, and how much is Mom going to pay. What can the Dad pay, what is he willing to pay? Basically, the mother is saying she does not want to pay more for Columbia than for Kenyon, and will not do so. There is probably some give there if the cost is similar, but essentially it is not worth it for her to pay what she perceives as her share of the cost to go to Columbia if less costly options occur.</p>
<p>I have seen this scenario play out right up to the date of commitment, by the way, even without ED involved. All systems are Ivy bound or other highly selective college bound, until the acceptances come in and the reality of paying the cost of First CHoice U vs State U or Local U or Merit Award College hits. Mom in this case is a bit late to stop the ED app from going out, but she is on the ball before a lot parents are when the ramifications of cost hit. Still others are still not in reality until they are denied by PLUS and realize that there is no way they can make that tution payment . My one son’s friend had to bail out of the college of his choice to which a deposit was made and all plans were set up, and then the parents could not get PLUS when they did the paper work that summer, and they had no where else they could get a loan to come up with the $60K tab. There were credit and other issues that prevented them from getting the loans for college, really a blessing of sorts, since they really could not afford those loans. Or they get a loan that they can’t afford and get into financial trouble later, student included if it involves a cosigned loan in amounts that cannot be repaid as agreed.</p>
<p>So find out from Dad what the story is with how much he is paying and how much mom is supposed to be paying. It seems as though the mom is not going to come up with an amount since her answers to the queries have been vague. Then since the OP can pretty much come up with what the Columbia numbers will be in terms of aid, if he and Dad cannot cover it and Mom is no longer on board, then the acceptance should be pushed to RD when all offers are on the table. My guess is that Mom will not be on board to paying much more than what the least amount there is unless it comes to something like a local college for free or a little more for a residential school or more selective school by far. </p>
<p>This is not an unusual problem at all.</p>
<p>As an aside: Four days ago I spoke with a neighbor because he parked his SUV near our home & it had a Kenyon bumper sticker displayed. He had a child that attended Kenyon on a substantial scholarship. She loved it, spent a year abroad & is now in graduate school. His other child, a year older, went to an Ivy–not Columbia. My neighbor was near furious when telling me about his dealings with the Ivy’s financial aid office. I don’t know the particulars, but he was incensed & his child had already graduated a year or two ago.
My point: Just because a school has an elite academic reputation doesn’t mean that everything is lollipops & jellybeans.</p>
<p>The school determines what financial aid it will offer, based on standard formulas that don’t apply to every family. It’s an effort to fairly distribute limited funds, but it’s not always fair.</p>
<p>Financial aid usually includes student loans (automatic, everyone qualifies), typically currently maxing out around $31K total (four years). A school may offer parent loans to help pay the Expected Family Contribution, but this is not financial aid. Some of this is just definitions; the bottom line is what the family must pay (or pay back).</p>
<p>Op states that range is either 10 or 30. I think that the gap may be bigger.</p>
<p>He says that dad can pay ~ 10 k . Keep in mind that dad will have to fill out the non-custodial profile where he has to list his income/and assets. Do you have a stepmother? If yes, then her income and assets will be considered into the consideration.</p>
<p>If you mom is the custodial parent, she will have to fill out the FAFSA and he CSS profile. the FAFSA will give her an EFC that will basically determine your eligibility for federal aid. On the CSS profile, she will have to list her income, assets. If you have a stepfather, his income and assets will also be used to determine how much financial aid you will receive. Most likely your mom’s EFC on the profile will be higher than the FAFSA EFC.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, that the school does not take into consideration , who is responsible to pay what as per the divorce decree or any side agreements your parents make. At the end of the day, they do not care who pays the bill as long as it gets paid.</p>
<p>Where things can get sticky is if you have an EFC of 30k and your parents are expecting to split the cost. If your mom’s EFC comes out to 10k and she says she cannot afford to pay the 10k, is your dad willing going to take up the slack for you to attend Columbia? This is where the 3 of you need to sit down and your parents need to be up front about how much they are realistically willing to pay or borrow for your education.</p>
<p>Another thought about potential consequences of taking out a large amount of student loans: If you can’t make the payments & your credit rating suffers, you may not be able to get any worthwhile jobs since all major employers use a credit check as a hiring consideration. This can put a student in a Catch-22 situation because you need a good paying job in order to pay back your student loans, but can’t get a good paying job because you cannot pass the credit check due to failure to timely pay your student loans.</p>
<p>I am a mom. Hands down go to Columbia if you get in. Its what you want and if you need to take some loans out then so be it. I know that after legacy, athletes and ED’s there is not many spots for RD at Columbia so ED is way to go. Good luck.</p>
<p>Read the New York Times, Business Day, Degrees of Debt. It might affect your advice.</p>
<p>Also, a website called AboveTheLaw reported another lawyer suicide due to inability to repay student loans.</p>
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<p>It is one thing to promise something and actually keep the promise. But it seems to be a common story on these forums that parents (often naively) promise something that they are unable to deliver on in April. Stories like this get posted here often, both from the parent’s point of view and from the student’s point of view. The OP’s story appears to be more like the latter, although the parent in question is signaling inability or unwillingness to deliver on the previous promises when there is still time to rework the application strategy.</p>
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<p>3+2 programs are not a good idea if you have uncertainty about finances. Not only could there be uncertainty about admission as a transfer to the “2” school, but there could also be uncertainty about financial aid and scholarships at the “2” school (and it is an extra year to pay for in any case).</p>
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<p>OP’s intended safeties are probably UC Irvine and CSU Fullerton (state universities in commuting distance), both of which have engineering. However, the OP should investigate the change of major procedures at both schools and select major appropriately on the application.</p>
<p>@OP - are you looking at places like Case Western, CMU, Rochester, and so on? They seem more Columbia-like than Kenyon, with sound engineering and liberal arts programs, and possibly good chances for merit aid.</p>
<p>Some of the LACs offer engineering, but I would check into the number of engineering faculty they have compared to the schools listed above. It’s a simple check to make, and very illuminating.</p>
<p>Is there an early priority filing date for the Profile for ED applicants? If so…when is it, and has it been submitted? This would include both the moms profile and the NCP Profile from the dad. Without these, the student won’t HAVE a financial aid package should he be accepted ED.</p>
<p>@OrangeD00D – I think that Dodgersmom has the most likely reasons behind your Mom’s change of heart. Also as a mom, we really want our kids to reach their dreams. There may be other things going on right now that would contribute to your mom’s caution. As your mom said, wait and see, but stay active in submitting applications to other places. Check out Lafayette College. Your mom might like their Marquis scholarships and there is an Engineering program there as well. There are other schools as wel that have decent financial aid. If you are Columbia calibre you could also check out Johns Hopkins as they also have full scholarship merit aid. Good luck with your applications.</p>