<p>Once COLUMBIA HAS THE CSS PROFILE form, you or your parents can call the financial aid office and see if they can give you an early estimate. If you ran the npc separately for each parent and you have accurate info, it may well be affordable with what you’ve said, and no need to change from ed to rd. Good luck!</p>
<p>Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using CC</p>
<p>I have one more question for the OP:</p>
<p>If, as you say, you are not 100% committed to engineering, why for your ED college did you choose one where (a) the engineering school is separate from the rest of the college, and (b) it’s uniquely hard to transfer out of engineering because of the strong core curriculum applicable to all other students? I understand there are some great things about Columbia for you, but among elite universities with single-digit admission rates Columbia seems in some respects uniquely unsuited for a student who is leaning towards engineering but wants flexibility. </p>
<p>You could get many of the same social, financial aid, and educational benefits with a lot more flexibility at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth . . . . None of them is in New York City, of course, but Cambridge and Philadelphia, and even Providence, are not to be sneezed at, and Princeton and Stanford are short, affordable train rides away from great cities. And there are other places where, if you are really competitive for admission to Columbia, you would be very competitive for significant merit aid, have great, LGBTQ-friendly social environments, and softer landings if you decide to bail out of engineering. (USC, Boston University, Michigan, Carnegie-Mellon, Pitt, just to name a few.)</p>
<p>I’m still unclear on why OP should switch to RD for Columbia. They will offer a financial package. If it’s doable for his family, he should go there. If it’s not, he should decline and go someplace that is doable.</p>
<p>The only scenario in which he should switch to RD is if his parents are now telling him that they won’t pay for Columbia even if they can afford it–that they insist that he look for a better deal.</p>
<p>This seems like the exact type of situation that ED is not meant for-unclear finances and commitments from the parents . We let both of our kids apply ED but we are a married couple and these were state schools and we were willing to be full pay at these schools. We would not have allowed our kids to apply ED to expensive privates.</p>
<p>But…Columbia’s policy is to meet 100% of demonstrated need. That means that the only situation in which an ED applicant should (or should have to) decline ED at Columbia is if they don’t think Columbia’s calculation of need was correct. How often does that really happen?</p>
<p>Yeah. I don’t see any case for withdrawing the ED application (converting it to RD) because of financial uncertainty. When the OP ran the calculations correctly, it produced a parental contribution number that was lower than his parents say they are willing to pay, without taking loans.</p>
<p>Lots of people believe as a matter of principle that if you are at all sensitive to cost you should never apply ED. I think you have to take your cost-sensitivity into account, but depending on the college, its financial aid policies (and their transparency), and the family’s circumstances, applying ED can be a fine choice.</p>
<p>I don’t know but in this situation the parents may feel they have more demonstrated need than Columbia feels they do. It just seems that it would have been easier all the way around to apply RD in this situation and keep the ability to compare packages open. Good luck to the OP with all this! As some of you say, ED can work out well.</p>
<p>The issue is the perceived ED admission advantage. For the number one top choice, the dream school that meets 100% of need, the only reason not to apply ED would seem to be wasting the application fee if you believe you have no chance of admission. If the aid turns out to be insufficient, the offer is declined, and you move on to RD elsewhere.</p>
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<p>I think this is what one parent is saying.</p>
<p>If the OP applied ED for the purposes of his or his parents comparing financial aid offers afterwards, looking for the best offer, the honorable thing to do is to withdraw the ED application.</p>
<p>“that they insist that he look for a better deal”</p>
<p>A better deal than 100% of need? It might not happen, but could with merit money or a no-loan policy.</p>
<p>The parents don’t live together and seem to have differences of opinion on this. That would be my concern. The worst case scenario on this could be the OP does get accepted ED but the parents cannot/will not agree that he can accept the admission. If all had been done EA or RD, the OP would have until May 1st to compare packages and make an informed decision with the parents.</p>
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<p>Isn’t the OP’s mother insisting that he look for a better deal (Kenyon – although she appears to have unrealistic expectations of the Kenyon scholarships)?</p>
<p>If Columbia has o no-loan financial aid policy, then the focus becomes what constitutes sufficient aid to make attendance possible & who makes that determination.</p>
<p>The advice to withdraw your application seems spectacularly bad to me. Changing it to RD would be reasonable, especially if there is serious concern that the FA offered by Columbia would not be adequate.</p>
<p>If you have carefully followed Columbia’s instructions and run their calculator and it shows an acceptable result, then realize that the award of a meets-need, no-loan school is highly unlikely to be beaten except by a small number of highly competitive special scholarships. The full-tuition scholarship at Kenyon that your mother has fixated on is a marketing tool and a very bad bet. According to the figures presented here, even that would leave her on the hook for the $5K she says she can afford.</p>
<p>I agree that you should be looking at other peer schools that offer FA comparable to Columbia but do not have barriers to switching between engineering and other areas, including those listed upthread. Kenyon’s 3/2 program means paying for an additional year of school. Not a good deal, unless it is virtually free, leaving aside the issue of the percentage of students actually completing it.</p>
<p>One thing I might consider doing is calling the Columbia FA office and checking to be sure that you entered the figures correctly for your family situation and that you correctly understand the results.</p>
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<p>To my knowledge, they don’t. Axelrod, you seem to be unfamiliar with the FA policies of the Ivies.</p>
<p>I haven’t read all the posts, but I don’t recall any suggesting that OP withdraw anything other than the ED supplement.</p>
<p>Agree, Axelrod.</p>
<p>OP, call Columbia and confirm the formula and ask any questions.</p>
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<li>Mom and Dad together have now said they can pay 15k. That’s all we know for that part.</li>
<li>If the accurate formula is “Mom’s + Dad’s,” maybe EFC is closer to 10k than 30k. With Columbia being 100% need, even if the official EFC comes in higher, this is a far better position than when we thought EFC would be 30k.<br></li>
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<p>We posters shouldn’t further confuse things, esp not with speculation. Call and do this final fact-finding.</p>
<p>OP’s situation is he likes Columbia enough to apply ED. If the right FA offer doesn’t come through, he turns them down, no 2nd shot. OP can convert to RD, but I think this last info is worth going for.</p>
<p>“Yeah. I don’t see any case for withdrawing the ED application (converting it to RD) because of financial uncertainty. When the OP ran the calculations correctly, it produced a parental contribution number that was lower than his parents say they are willing to pay, without taking loans”</p>
<p>JHS, I don’t see how you can make that statment logically. His mother, certainly one his parents, half of his parents, is balking at making a commitment to pay that amount. She is saying that she “COULD” pay it but does not want to, may refuse to, if there are other alternatives like the Kenyan scholarship which she want her son to pursue. Unless she states that she WILL pay a certain amount of the Columbia cost, it doesn’t look certain at all. </p>
<p>It is a very common thing that when it comes to “pay the piper”, parents balk. They did in Hamlin back then, and they still do now. When the rats of angst have been driven out and the kid is accepted to the school, writing that check if one even has the money, suddenly becomes very distasteful to some people, many people. I know of a number of cases where kids had to shift gears and go to a less expensive school when the time came to pay up. Those who were luckier, made the changes before May 1, when a school that was not in the top choices would come up with a very nice award. Heck, my son, not us, but our son seriously considered a local school that he applied to just because the app was free and it was an easy do, when they gave him a full tution award. He found a number of kids that he knew and liked were going there so he would have an easy entry into the social scene, it was famiilar ground, he could have and use his car, NYC is right here, and he would be rich in terms of college students and money. He would have money to do whatever he pleased, and then some. Instead, by going the way he did, he and we are scraping to make those payments. </p>
<p>So the way one feels in May is not the way one feels in September when the application process begins. Even worse off are those kids left in a lurch when the “we’ll work it out” does not work out and parents CANNOT come up with the money to pay the school after all commitments have been made and all systems are go for a certain school. Heart breaking. My son’s one friend is still sore from that one. Parents got denied by PLUS, the gap too big to meet. They could not work it out after all of those assurances so she is commuting to a local state school that is affordable. Plus she missed out on scholarship money she would have gotten had she committed to them in May. </p>
<p>So unless both parents are on board about paying a certain amount, there should be no ED app. In other words, the mother has to agree that if accepted, she will agree to pay X amount. If the amount is more than that, well, if not significantly more, perhaps something can be worked out. But it’s not acceptable to say it has to be the amount of the scholarship she has in mind. It’s clear up front that Columbia doees not give out merit money, and the NPC are prettty danged accurate for schools like this. The OP is playing “Chicken” with his mom in keeping ED option open.</p>
<p>That’s why I hate ED.</p>
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Well, they won’t really know this until they see the Columbia package if OP is accepted ED. If they do feel that way, they can decline. The downside would be that then Columbia would be permanently off the table–they won’t be able to compare it to other offers. (But let’s face it–the only offer that’s likely to be better financially is merit money from a college much further down the pecking order–probably not Kenyon).
Who makes that determination is the family, NOT the college. The college has absolutely no recourse if you decline the ED admission for financial reasons. They don’t sue you, and they don’t blackball you with other colleges. They might try to make you feel bad–and rightly so, if you aren’t really declining for financial reasons. Now, I agree that it would be dishonorable to turn down an ED offer that really meets your need, but you think you can get a full ride somewhere else. But it’s entirely the family’s decision. That’s just the nature of ED. It’s binding, but entirely on the honor system.</p>