<p>The reason to change is that “meet full need” from very top schools may differ to the tune of more than 10K per year. Some schools even say in their fin aid package that their formula do not follow the federal guidelines. I.e., they give more aid than “needed” according to the FAFSA formula, so the student technically do not qualify for federal financial aid because of the generous aid provided by the institution.</p>
<p>A person from a wealthy family may not care about this. However, it seems to me the OP’s family do care.</p>
<p>Agreed that the mother isn’t on board yet. But – basing this only on what the OP has reported, and remembering that he may not have represented fairly what she says or thinks – the mother sounds like she has barely paid attention to anything so far. She’s fixated on a pie-in-the-sky possibility that came from some marketing materials she happened to read for a college that happens to be completely inappropriate for what her son’s educational needs seem to be. Now, of course that’s an unstable situation, but I wouldn’t be rushing to take action based on her intermittent focus and unreasonable fantasies. (If the OP and his mother really wanted to pursue full-ride-level merit opportunities, there are or were many more appropriate ones out there. That’s a whole different strategy that no one is doing anything about, and that should have begun months ago. If the mother were engaged and really had the bargain mentality people are ascribing to her, she would have been pushing this, but she hasn’t. They are already too late to pursue some opportunities that would have been more attractive than Kenyon.) As far as I can tell, she’s a management problem at this point, not a responsible parent.</p>
<p>I tend to believe that when circumstances force the mother to pay attention and make commitments, she will ultimately be reasonable, and $20,000 total to send your kid to Columbia is pretty darn reasonable unless she is really indigent. I think most of the parents on CC, for one reason or another, would tell her that $20,000 for a BSE from Columbia is a far better deal than an absolutely free BA from Kenyon. If the OP is lucky enough to get accepted at Columbia ED, and the financial aid award follows what the Net Price Calculator told him, the mother should be jumping for joy, because the chances of getting a better deal are slim indeed. Furthermore, just as the son shouldn’t be risking his family to go to Columbia, the mother shouldn’t be compromising her son’s educational opportunities in an unrealistic search for a better deal. And there will be no shortage of people who will tell her that, starting with her son. So I think she will come around.</p>
<p>And if Columbia accepts the OP but asks the family to pay $20,000 or $30,000 per year rather than $10,000, then in all probability the family says no, and that’s perfectly, completely, 100% within their rights under the ED agreement.</p>
<p>But the free BA from Kenyon is completely speculative. If OP gets into Columbia ED, that financial package is the bird in the hand–unless it’s really worse than one could reasonably expect, it would be foolish to give it up for a bird in the bush.</p>
<p>I, at least, am assuming that OP’s chances of getting into Columbia are enhanced by sticking with ED. (And, of course, getting into Columbia is speculative at this point, too.)</p>
<p>It seems like this thread had reached the point where all that needed to be said has been said, and in many different ways to boot. The basic conclusion is that this much ado about nothing, as most everything is speculative. For starters, the “chances” of getting accepted at Columbia or at Kenyon with the famed scholarship are statistically slim. </p>
<p>On the other hand, the “chances” that the parents will have to fund the education of their child is … almost certain. Considering that Columbia, as one of the richest schools in the nation, has made great strides to offer generous financial aid packages, it a given that the final bill will be as close to the EFC of the parents, and will not be subject to the gap funding and loan crutches that are so common. On this issue, it’s also good to remember that the combination of merit and need-based aid is not always as “lucrative” as one hopes. Many partial scholarships for no- or lower-tuition end up making little to no difference, except for full paying families. One of the reasons why merit aid is not easy to obtain, and perhaps easier to obtain with a … low EFC! Absolutely free education at Kenyon is not only speculative but probably also a quacking canard! </p>
<p>At this stage, the ED application is in and this family will know in a few weeks how realistic the expectations are.</p>
<p>This discussion is not one of a student having to make REAL choices. That discussion will have to wait!</p>
<p>I agree with JHS–and if you’ve read this board for a long time, you’ll know that we disagree at least as often as we agree. Keep the ED app in. </p>
<p>It “sounds” as if the OP is an unhooked white male. IMO–and no, i don’t have statistical evidence to prove it, just a lot of years of looking at results–applying ED makes more of a difference for non-legacy, non-recruited athlete white kids, particularly those of two college-educated parents living in California, metro Chicago and the Boston to DC corridor, than it does for other demographics. Going back to my old analogy that “building” a college class is like casting a high school musical, kids in that demographic are the “sopranos.” If the overall admit rate for Columbia is 8%, the admission rate for that demographic in the regular round is probably 4% or lower. </p>
<p>If the OP passes up the chance to apply ED, he may very well end up getting rejected by Columbia and getting into Kenyon without substantial merit $. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that’s the PROBABLE result of withdrawing his ED app.</p>
<p>Unlike JHS…see, we still disagree…I think Columbia is an excellent school, much better than it was a generation ago. I don’t like Kenyon. It’s what I call a “pretty, white and Greek” college. Take a look at Kenyon’s website. It has tons of info about Greek life at Kenyon, which is somewhat unusual.(I don’t mean having a heavy Greek presence is unusual, just that including info about each frat and sorority on campus and rush on the official website is unusual.) Now, there are lots of people who like “pretty, white and Greek,” but I doubt that many LGBT students are included in that number.</p>
<p>I am not a big fan of Greek life at college (was not Greek at my university where it had a large presence, D1 was not Greek at her LAC that had Greek life). But I really disagree with your slams on Kenyon. It is probably the most beautiful campus we visited on our tours (and between two kids, we have seen about 40 campuses, so that is saying something). It has a tremendous reputation as an excellent college for English majors in particular, also very good drama. It is a pure LAC type experience, I think.</p>
<p>Regarding Greek life, 27% of the men join a frat, but only 8% of the women join a sorority. That comes to about 200 men and 70 women out of the 1,600+ student body in the Greek system.</p>
<p>My D2 is LGBT, and she is seriously considering Kenyon. She felt comfortable on campus when visiting. Just as Columbia has changed over recent years, so has Kenyon.</p>
<p>I have no connection to Kenyon at all but I did go to their website and I didn’t see that they were “pushing” Greek stuff any more than other activities. Under Student Life, they list all kinds of organizatons, including Greek, arts, athletic,GLBT Community,etc. I don’t really see what’s so unusual about having Greek stuff on a website. Lots of schools do. It is one possible thing a kid could be inerested in so it would seem logical that some info would be good to include on a website. One of my kids was in a fraternity, the other isn’t. Never in a sorority myself and was surprised my son joined but he enjoyed it. It’s not for everybody but I see no reason to not have info on a college website.</p>
<p>intparent I didn’t slam Kenyon (not sure if you were addressing me). </p>
<p>I did say Gambier is teeny tiny, though. I’ve enjoyed a burger at the Village Inn and the main street is cute. Kenyon campus is truly lovely. Within 45 minutes there’s the beginning of Amish country, Mohican state park, Columbus in the other direction.</p>
<p>But whew, it is small. The difference between it and Columbia/Morningside Heights is night and day.</p>
<p>According to a 2010 article in the NY Post, Columbia is now 30% Greek, with 14 fraternities and 4 sororities. Agree that there is quite a differerence in atmosphere between Columbia and Kenyon. Some good backups more similar to Columbia would be a good idea, given Columbia’s low acceptance rate.</p>
<p>re #128 I don’t think I really “slammed” Kenyon. I said that I personally don’t like it. I don’t. Post #128 says it’s beautiful. I said it was “pretty.” No disagreement.I said it is “white.” It is 86% white, including international students. </p>
<p>I said it was “Greek.” It’s wholly fair to point out that only a minority of Kenyon students belong to Greek organizations. I do think…and continue to think…that the impact of Greek life on ANY campus is not wholly measured by the # of students who join Greek organizations. (Moreover, Kenyon recently recognized another frat, which presumably will increase the % of male students who belong to one. )</p>
<p>OP, some questions and comments. Apologies in advance if these have already been addressed. </p>
<p>The thing that concerns me about the ED app is that the aid offer is contingent on the Profile being accurately filled out. People can be burned if they take an ED offer based on generous FA, and then find out in the spring that the numbers shifted substantially because the ED-deadline Profile wasn’t filled out accurately. If you have any reason at all to suspect that either of your parents didn’t fill out the financials with care, then I’d either convert to RD or scramble like mad to get any revised figures in to Columbia. </p>
<p>I know you’re not set on engineering, but a 3/2 engineering program even with a big scholarship for the first 3 years isn’t necessarily going to be cheaper than 4 years at a program with engineering. </p>
<p>Agree with the concern upthread about applying to a school where it’s difficult to transfer out of engineering when you’re not dead-set on engineering.</p>
<p>@OP - it seems to me that the immediate question is whether to withdraw the ED supplement at Columbia. I hope you don’t. If it comes down to whether or not your Mom contributes $5K/year, that could be a manageable amount to borrow, if everything else falls into place. So wait and see.</p>
<p>You are already looking into schools for the RD round.</p>
<p>Why are folks even pushing Kenyon so ardently? It’s one postcard, rather late in the game. It’s got merit and OP said he’s got other merit schools in his sights. It’s not his #2, it’s something that recently grabbed Mom’s attention.</p>
<p>Fact is, like many other choices, Kenyon is not in a major hub. Fine for some, not for others. Pointing to the influence of Greek life is not asking for percentages. It’s pointing out that, in a remote area/small town, some on-campus groups can, by necessity, have a large spill-over influence. Same for LGBT considerations; some will want to be in a larger environment, with more (and more varied) opps for interaction. Some won’t care.</p>
<p>That folks are pushing Kenyon is not the issue. That the postcard caught Mom’s attention is. I think it hit her that it is possible for her student to go to college for little money if he gets some merit awards that look like they fit him to a tee. That would solve some issues for her. Some parents who are keeping the smiles and reassurances up about managing the costs are hiding some serious financial issues and are just hoping something would come up. The post card could be what did. As I said earlier, this sort of epiphany often happens when all the offers are on the table and then free or $10K or $20K starts looking an awful lot better than $30, 40, 60K in costs.</p>
<p>I think the entire conversation of Kenyon is irrelevant. The OP applied ED, which means his family has committed NOT to compare offers. The only question is, if admitted, does the aid offer meet the family’s need. Not their ‘comfort’. Not their “preference”. Not what they’d “like”. Need.</p>
<p>If they want to compare offers, the OP should change his application to RD NOW (and I think he knows that’s the right thing to do.)</p>
<p>Since different schools can come up with different definitions of a family’s “need”, it’s not an absolute. Hence the family gets to call the shots. At least until such time as the NPCs become accurate enough to predict actual aid packages within spitting distance.</p>