Parent suddenly not onboard with ED agreement?

Parents Forum
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<p>If mom liquidates that retirement money, it will be counted as income for next year. If she rolls it over into a new retirement account, it will not. If she’s smart, she’ll do that latter. I know this because I liquidated some of my retirement and it increased our EFC for this year significantly. </p>

<p>Since Columbia uses the Profile, both parental incomes are considered but it is also considered that they each have a mortgage, other expenses, etc. The OP hasn’t mentioned siblings, but siblings also make a difference. So do tax deductions. Mom’s AGI might be much less than $85K.</p>

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<p>OP–Are you sure about the $5,000 contribution figure? It sounds too low for someone with an $85,000/yr income plus savings (assuming she has savings accounts in addition to income).</p>

<p>The problem I see with students who have their heart set on ONE particular college is that they fail to understand the total finances needed to complete 4 years at that dream college.
Sure, your parents may come up with the money for the first year, but what happens when the financial aid package for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year comes up short? You can count on tuition/room/board/miscellaneous fees going up each and every year. Please, take this into consideration.</p>

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<p>I know a young woman whose non custodial father remarried when she was half way through college. She had a nice aid package that was still barely affordable for her. Her stepmother made enough money and owned a home outright which jacked up the family contribution to nearly full freight which was undoable. The dad had made his commitments on what he would contribute, which was not nearly enough as it was, and he and his new wife refused to pay a dime more. A lot of thngs like that can happen when it comes to financial aid, so both parents need to be very aware of the situation and be on board for the commitment regardless of ED or RD when financial aid is involved.</p>

<p>I suspect in this case, the mom may have done some research or spoke to someone and between the time she acquiesed to the Columbia ED app, and now, found out some things that made her relaize that merit aid is the safer way to go for her son as her contribution amount might be higher than she cares to pay. She might be considering using some of the 401 K monies, she might have suddenly remembered additional funds somewhere.</p>

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<p>Most teenagers have no clue about what it would take to fund college and the anxiety involved for all but the wealthiest parents.</p>

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<p>My mom makes $85k and we inputted it as such – I’m guessing the amount comes from how much she owes on her house (which is the only thing that is out there). We bought the house about three months ago – naturally, we have a lot to pay off still. I ran it again with the numbers she gave me and got $5400. My dad got around there, so I guess it would be more fair to call it around $11k or $12k. I was surprised too, since she does make so much. </p>

<p>She has some savings but I’m not sure if it’s a substantial amount. Of course, this is before I considered she had the $100k+ I mentioned, though it looks as if it won’t matter now. </p>

<p>I have one sibling but he probably won’t be attending college for his own personal reasons out of his control. He’s only 13 at this point, though, so I’d probably have graduated or have one year left when he is expected to enter.</p>

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<p>Yes, but I discussed it with my mom and my dad. I made sure they knew what the FA might come out to, what they might expect to pay. They both were on board but my mom changed her mind two weeks later. My dad has been onboard the whole time.</p>

<p>Thank you guys again for the opinions. I’ll be calling up the FA office for an estimate tomorrow. :)</p>

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<p>For those of you wondering whether finaid from top colleges is somewhat standard, my experience says otherwise. Some schools provide significantly more than the standard Federal Methodology would provide. Here is a quote stright from the finaid award documents I recieved from one of the institutions that had generous no-loans finaid:</p>

<p>“Our calculation of your family contribution is substantially lower than the contribution calculated using the U.S. Department of Education’s formula for determining eligibility for federal student financial aid. Because use of federal aid would limit the total assistance we could offer you, we have provided you financial aid only from [Institution] resources.
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The reason for our offering you an “[Institution] only” aid award is so that you may receive a greater amount of [Institution] Scholarship under the Institutional Methodology than would be possible under the Federal Methodology. The award is still need-based, but follows the [Institution’s] own guidelines for determining need, rather than being bound by the strictures of the Federal Methodology.”</p>

<p>So, finaid does vary, even among top institutions. Buyers beware with respect to ED applications.</p>

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<p>Of course financial aid varies from institution to institution. And within the same institution based on things that may not be obvious, like owning a small business, or retirement savings. No one who needs financial aid should file an ED application without thoroughly understanding the specific college’s financial aid policies. But a particular college – say, Columbia – can do a good job helping you understand those policies in advance. Columbia does what sure looks like a great job – offering a really detailed calculator and clear examples of how aid would be structured.</p>

<p>Another problem is that many colleges “gap” (fail to meet full need, even as they define it), and do not commit to awarding financial aid on a consistent basis year-to-year. But, again, there is no hint of that at Columbia.</p>

<p>What cptofthehouse raises is an entirely different set of problems: financial aid everywhere changes based on changed facts year-to-year, and when you are dealing with divorced parents and colleges (like Columbia) that do NOT follow the federal methodology strictly (in essence, few if any colleges that commit to meet full need do), there can be huge changes based on something like remarriage, and people have to understand that. The changes can be in either direction – remarriage to someone who is unemployed, poor, and has two kids in college would likely reduce a parent’s contribution. But there’s no question that a student at a generous, meets-full-need college with divorced parents can run into serious problems if one parent is absolutely unwilling to contribute more than a fixed dollar amount.</p>

<p>But that would be the case with most merit scholarships, too. Merit awards can have their own issues. They rarely adjust with tuition and other cost increases, unless they are explicitly tied to them. In many cases, they offset financial aid for which the family would otherwise be eligible, so that the family contribution will not be reduced even if there are huge reductions in its income. </p>

<p>Merit awards often come with minimum GPA requirements, which can be a real issue for students in fields (like engineering!) with traditionally lower GPAs. For an English major or a Political Science major, a 3.5 GPA might put him in the middle of his cohort, but for an Engineering major a 3.5 GPA would be top 10%. That matters a whole bunch if you need to maintain a 3.5 GPA to keep your merit scholarship.</p>

<p>So cptofthehouse is right that SOME parents may decide that merit scholarships are more reliable, but it’s sure not a one-size-fits-all decision. And its a decision that’s easier to make if you don’t really expect significant need-based financial aid.</p>

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<p>When financial aid changes, either estimate to actual or year to year, it’s for good reason: income went up or down. The calculation I’ve seen is aid forty cents down for every income dollar up, and vice versa, other factors being equal. Can anyone confirm this?</p>

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<p>As it is standard on … standardized tests, an answer that includes always or never is almost always wrong. I have no doubt that some schools might stretch the limits of interpreting the federal guidelines of financial aid, but I am not sure how a Pell grant could NOT be considered part of the federal aid, and I am not sure how it is possible for a Pell grant to be funded if it would cause to exceed the COA.</p>

<p>Again, never say never, but I still think it violates the basic tenets of financial aid and the guidelines imposed on federal assistance. </p>

<p>While I could have missed accounts of students keeping money, most of the stories here have been based on a misunderstanding of what is included in the COA, and that the money “cleared” was none other than the budgeted amounts for travel, personal expenses, and fees. </p>

<p>This said, if you happen to be willing to share the names of the school that are allowing the extra funding, we all can learn that things do change, and that the old formulae and limits are no longer applied uniformly.</p>

<p>PS Private schools that do NOT fund financial aid through government programs can obviously do as they please and merge merit aid with need based aid, and are not bound by those limits. I do, however, think that those schools are in an extreme minority.</p>

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<p>Just wading in to say that since the OP is Latino, having to withdraw the ED app won’t hurt as much. Being Latino–unless it’s Cuban–is a hook. In and of itself, it will allow the OP’s app to stand out in the regular round. Very few URMs apply ED. </p>

<p>It also makes it more likely that the OP, especially if OP is male, will get merit money at a school like Kenyon which is only about 7% African-American and Hispanic combined. That is, of course, assuming that the OP is a high stats applicant.</p>

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<p>I know you want to go to Columbia however I would really encourage you to do a quick check of some out of state schools that have engineering programs. There are some non- Ivy schools that give really great merit aid. However most of the deadlines for those kind of automatic merit scholarships shut down by December 1st. I am assuming you have a great SAT/ACT and gpa. My son is thinking about either science or engineering , we applied at 10 colleges, mostly out of state(we are in Georgia) and all have some sort of automatic merit aid. For example University of Alabama gave him free tuition. Think about applying to one or more out of state safety schools that you know you will be able to afford regardless of whether your mom comes though or not. My son and I are still on the hunt for that school that will give him free tuition,room & board.:slight_smile: We may not find it but we are going to keep trying until all the deadlines have past and again so far Dec 1st seems to be the end as far as state schools.</p>

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<p>You must be referring to the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; , right?</p>

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<p>Inasmuch as very little is REALLY known about the composition of the ED pool, that conclusion might have become less and less true over the years. In fact, many schools are looking to “fill” their “quota” of URM and low SES students during the Early Admission rounds. Programs such as Questbridge or Posse have had a substantial and positive role in increasing the number of students who learn about the benefits of applying early, and in turn, have been very successful in getting accepted early. One benefit of the early program, and especially with a Questbridge application, is that the officers have access to a more complete file and have the time to review the application with heightened dedication. </p>

<p>Fwiw, the application/admission/enrollment is NOT a one-way street. Schools do want (and expect) the students who were offered admisson to attend. In a way, offering an ED admission to a competitive (or must have)URM applicant makes the life of an adcom … easier. </p>

<p>Please note that not all schools report the early admission in their ED/EA statistics. For example, students who are matched at Stanford through the QB program are considered RD admits. </p>

<p>As an additional note, while much has been discussed about the OP finances, there is very little known in terms of the student background and competitive academic nature. I happen to think that it would be wiser to rely on the ED boost than on a possible URM/Latino boost in the RD round.</p>

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<p>How big is the ED boost, or is it very speculative? Yes, the ED round has a higher admit percentage, but do we know how much of that is due to the composition of the ED applicant pool versus an actual advantage for a given student?</p>

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<p>For schools that publish their Common Data Set (Columbia does not), I think we can rely on Level of applicant’s interest being indicative of some ED advantage, re Very Important, Important, or Considered, respectively.</p>

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<p>What seems to be eons ago --in this thread-- I discussed that precise statistical boost and presented the numbers for Columbia. I also wrote about the indidivual preferences to prefer to believe the theory that the ED pool is statistically superior or to … believe the research results of Avery, Fairbanks, et al, who debunked that theory.</p>

<p>Of course, we can play with further controls, and take out the “lower” stats URM, the supposedly lower stats athletes and development admits, and hope to arrive at the conclusion that the ED group is not really weaker.</p>

<p>In the end, there is an inescapable truth and that truth is that the well-informed, the people who cannot the super consultants, and know how to read the tea leaves DO rely on the ED crutches and, by doing this, help the schools boost their admission statistics even further. </p>

<p>ED exists because it serves both the schools and the applicants. The day it will stop providing a real and tangible boost will be the day it will die.</p>

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<p>Yes, that is what I was referring to, although there probably are colleges that are not on the list. It might give him an option that looks really good next spring. That’s assuming he either changes to RD or is deferred to RD. December 1st is right around the corner and once that date is past I’m not sure how much automatic merit aid is out there.</p>

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<p>Hey everyone, sorry for the late reply!</p>

<p>I talked with my mom and brought up the points you guys mentioned here. My mom is OK with Columbia after I showed her the calculators and statistics, and the calculators for other schools. She is on board and thinks the FA is a great deal. </p>

<p>Getting in is the next step! Glad to finally have a solution to this. :smiley: Thank you everyone for your input. :)</p>

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<p>Glad to hear that you’ve finally got her support on this!</p>

<p>Best of luck!!!</p>