Parental advice needed on UK IB diploma program versus US AP Capstone diploma program

Parents Forum
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Well its not clear to me that the parents necessarily intend to move back to Oregon. So how is that any different from sending your kid to a different state to live with relatives and expecting them to be in-state (which typically won’t allow them to get in-state tuition)? I don’t think that will work for a dependent moving there on their own unless the parents go back to Oregon as well (https://www.pdx.edu/registration/sites/www.pdx.edu.registration/files/Residency_Guide_Procedures.pdf)

And the UK loan scheme is certainly available to non-nationals including many EU, Swiss and Turkish citizens (see https://www.gov.uk/student-finance/who-qualifies). Whether that is the case in these particular circumstances is not entirely clear (it is available to EEA migrant workers but doesn’t specify if that includes their children). But it would be worth investigating.

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It seems likely that finishing the IB is best. But taking a year off after that may be necessary either way, either to get to 3 years in the UK or potentially a year of physical presence in a US state for in-state tuition (with the whole family moving there).

The only other affordable option would be looking for a full ride at a US school, which could be applied for from the UK during the final year of high school but may be hard to get at a tippy top school, especially if the need-based eligibility is affected by the rented out house in Oregon. But there are merit-based possibilities at slightly lower ranking schools.

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^ Full-ride merit scholarships at decent schools are tough to get. There are many more full-tuition scholarships but I’m not sure that would be enough for this family.

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Was the plan to live in the UK, retire there? Gain naturalization?
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Thank you for that. In regard to returning to the US for her senior year, she would/could just go back to her old school. The are a public charter high school and would accept her IB coursework and predicted grades (based on work done throughout the year) as finalized grades. In that scenario, she would resume with the AP Capstone Diploma. Albeit not as well known, and perhaps not as prestigious as the IB Diploma, AP coursework and exams carry merit.

Financial consideration is paramount – but also ensuring that our daughter get into a uni/college she is happy about is important as well. In the US, she is looking at Reed, Dartmouth, Brown, maybe Vanderbilt…but at this point it’s just looking. Ideally she should be working with a college counselor. I think that here in Colchester she can get hooked up with a counselor that could help her with UK and European schools – they might be able to help her with US as well…but they probably won’t know much about financial aid.

One of the things I have my eye on, but don’t know if she’d/we’d qualify for is the QuestBridge program.

Initially, we looked at this as "let’s go for a year and see what happens – but the IB program is two, set let’s also set are sights on that and – if all is going along swimmingly, we’ll do the whole relocation thing. We’ve got friends caring for our place, living in our home. We’ve kept all the utilities, bills, etc. in our name in Oregon, kept our old cell numbers (ported them) knowing that if it ended up being one year, we could more-or-less move back home easily. We’re all on the fence at this point, for a number of reasons…if our daughter decided to go back to Oregon, we’d go back with her. My husband’s job is okay, but frankly it’s tough to make a go of it here where we are living.

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The plan was multi-phase, depending on how things were/are going. If all was going fab, then yes, I suppose the plan would have been to stay long enough to become citizens. We only just applied for residency cards. But, at this point I’m not sure that is the case. There are a lot of pulls for each of us. The primary concern now is to figure out what fits best for our daughter. She is doing well at her UK school, is making friends and while she does miss her friends back in Oregon, she’s trying to put all of the pieces together as to what fits best. Interestingly, a couple of her advisors at her old school in Oregon have suggested she stick it out here and complete the IB Diploma program, but it was merely based on opinion, not based on what a college would want…or how easy/difficult it might be for her to get financial aid/scholarships. I know that at her old school, the staff offer a lot of help to the juniors and seniors with respect to college applications/common app and where to find scholarships.

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@Twoin18 That’s why I asked about the Bona Fide Residence test. There are two tests for residence in the US.

@farmgirl1961 I think the gap year scheme sounds very good. It’s quite popular there in the UK (and growing in the US too). How does dd like it there at her school? My elder dd showed up in London suburb for 7th grade (Year 8) from a tiny, tiny international school. We moved in August so got the local comprehensive high school. It was quite a shock for my tomboy who wears no makeup, didn’t know why the hell she should hike up her skirt, had the gall to wear a coat and use a backpack! Ha! Lots of very explicit talk in the schoolyard as well. Ugh. Not good memories. She lasted three weeks! My little one, on the other hand, has wonderful memories – besides being made to repeat 1st grade due to birthdate and being made to pray in school (not a CoE school either). She loved sitting on the floor and the friendliness of the teachers (she had been at French school sitting at a desk and writing with real ink). She loved getting her pen certificate in Year 2, making the Year 6 boys gloat!

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The gap year scheme could be a way to go, but at the moment my daughter doesn’t want to do that. However, if she applied to UK colleges and was accepted – and accepted the offer that doing the gap year and meeting the home student requirements would be the way to go. I think that the pressure and stress of thinking about all of this is getting her head a bit dizzy. Lately I hear here talking about wishing how much she could be taking Calculus (as she finds the IB SL Math easy) and Chemistry.

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The issue is that if she applies next year, she won’t be considered as part of the UK/EEA pool so her fees won’t be affordable.
She could spend her Gap year in Oregon…
I don’t know whether moving is even a possibility, but living in Scotland or Wales would make her fees lower (graduates from Scottish schools with 3 years presence in the UK/EU qualify for £2,300 fees).

If you’re living on 1/3 income+minimum wage+ some rent income from friends who are also housesitting, my guess is that you’re making much less than 40k and would thus be eligible for Pell, but also elite financial aid either Questbridge or top universities/LACs.
If in the 40-65k range she would be ok too with need based aid in the us, whether she graduates from a UK or us school.
(When college admissions say ‘hs Diploma’ they mean 'official completion of secondary schools, regardless of where that is. Usually it also means ‘no GED’.)

Have you run the box on University of Oregon? On a few colleges she’s been interested in?
What were the results?

When the prior prior situation has changed a lot, that information ought to be included. Use both your current situation and your 2016 income for the NPC.

The issue is the following: if she truly has a shot at Cambridge (38-40IB) then she ought to take a Gap year and apply as a resident. Applying as an American will mean she wouldn’t be reclassified and can’t afford to go.
She could apply as a Gap year student to lots of us schools, keeping in mind they’re less predictable than UK schools.
Right now she needs to find safeties, meaning schools with 40%+ acceptance rates where the NPC shows they’re affordable. Some of the colleges that meet need or close to it and would match safety level while having plenty of top students (assuming academics are IB38+) would be Dickinson, Denison, St Olaf, Centre. She’d need to start demonstrating interest right now as these factor ‘interest’ heavily.

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@MYOS1634, she may be Cambridge competitive, but even if she applies as a resident it is £9k/~$12k for tuition, and half or more of that again for room & board. OP has given a limit of parental support of approx $6k / year (+ presumably the ~$5k in FAFSA loans the student can take out).

Seriously, @farmgirl1961, if your daughter is an academically viable for Cambridge and your max budget is $6K/pa then you are right that the first and biggest question is what is the most academically competitive college that you can afford.

It has been asked a bunch of times, but I haven’t seen an answer: have you run the NPC on any of the schools your daughter is interested in yet? (as if you are resident in Oregon, so no rental income). If so, are the EFCs viable for you? That has to be your starting point.

@MYOS1634’s list is a very good place to start

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I started to do the NPC for Brown, but then I got directed to my daughter’s College Board account. We had to switch computers as she didn’t recall her CB password, and all my information was lost. So I need to do it again. Short answer, not yet.

As now that FAFSA look back at tax records that are essentially two years old (they want 2016 tax information for the 2018-2019 application), when I do the FAFSA application next year using either 2016 or 2017 tax information, it won’t reflect current income. I contacted someone from FedAid about that and was told that I would need to directly contact the FA department of a college about that and it is up to the college to re-evaluate financial need.

My daughter isn’t certain whether she is Oxbridge caliber as the criteria for IB is high (two 7s and a 6 for HLs and min IB score of 40. Her cousin who did IB three years ago told her that it was very difficult to get 7s.)

The idea of relocating next year is intriguing, but again for Scotland, if she finished year 2, that would be year 1 in Scotland … so wouldn’t she have two reside two more years in Scotland? Interestingly enough, we are seriously thinking of going to Edinburgh during the Easter break and checking out the University of Edinburgh when we are there.

It would be nice to know whether we might qualify for financial assistance under the quest bridge program, but I do believe we will have to wait until the application process comes out next spring/summer.

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^It’s in the UK or the EU, not Scotland specifically. So, same as if you stayed in Colchester. All years in the UK/Eu count toward the 3-year requirement. However the student can’t be graduating from a school in Wales, N.Ireland, or England (since all English students would flock to Scottish universities for the reduced fees!) Graduating from a continental European school also counts since costs there are lower.
Another benefit: Scotland offers “Advanced Highers” which allow students to take a sort of PG year for free and jump right into second year at the university if their results are good enough. So, she wouldn’t necessarily have to take a gap year, she could just do Highers (6 subjects, just like IB) then Advanced Highers in her favorite subjects. She could also take more than 6 Highers if she wished.

It is indeed VERY HARD to get a 7. Basically you have to be among the top students in your world’s region (not your national region, or your country - basically, a 7 indicates you’re among the top students in Western Europe). It represents a very, very high level of achievement. A 6 is hard to get, too, harder than an AP 5. An IB 5 is between a 4 and a 5 in terms of AP achievement. An IB 4 is like an AP 3.
Does she have predicteds yet?
What was her GPA in Oregon?

Questbridge is all or nothing: either you qualify (high stats kid whose family makes less than 45K/high stats kid whose family makes less than 65K and has special circumstances)… or you don’t. There’s no “partial”. Even if you qualify financially AND are selected academically, it doesn’t mean you’ll get into the Questbridge colleges and odds are you won’t… If you do, you get a full ride. But that’s a tough road and one that can’t be counted upon. BTW, the Questbridge application package must be ready in September “senior year” and the Summer Scholars program application opens in February or March I think. So you have about 2 weeks to run the NPCs and figure out whether you’d even qualify financially.

Pell is gradual: if you’d qualify for lunch assistance*, either reduced or free lunch, you’d qualify for some form of Pell. “some Pell” means you can get a few hundred dollars or a few thousands. You could get $500 from Pell, depending on your income - which wouldn’t change much for you. However the HIGHEST Pell grant is $5,900, which isn’t even enough to pay for instate tuition in Oregon, let alone room/board/books. Your daughter would thus need merit scholarships in addition to that, which would depend on SAT or ACT scores (and, to a certain extent, her IB score).

  • BTW there's a lunch assistance scheme in the UK too, so if your daughter qualifies, apply. It'll allow her to waive application fees for CommonApp. However I don't think SAT/ACT fees are waived for students who live abroad (I don't know whether being a US citizen abroad would qualify, email the two organizations ASAP explaining you're US citizens in the UK, are low-income, and have a daughter, also a US citizen, who needs to take the SAT/ACT, do waivers as used in the US apply to US citizens who don't live in the States?)

Scholarships primarily come from the colleges so you should create the list after running the NPC. Basically right now you should be working on a long list of about 40-50 colleges your daughter likes, so that by July you have affordable possibilities including 2 safeties (40%+ acceptance rates, if she doesn’t have predicteds in the 38+ range than 50% acceptance rates), 3-5 matches, then reaches (30% acceptance rates or less - note that acceptance rates here act as an imperfect proxy, assuming a top student with excellent scores aiming for good schools, so that acceptance rates often reflect geographical location, ie., a college in the Midwest may be as selective in terms of scores and GPAs as a Northeastern one, yet have a higher acceptance rate due to the declining demographics in the region - high scores with relatively high acceptance rates would make for a great safety for your daughter. In the same vein, your instate public universities’ Honors Colleges would be great choices.)

Using your current income, run the NPC NOW on the following: UO, Oregon State, Brown, Reed, Denison, Centre, Dickinson, Middlebury, St Olaf, Macalester. Which ones come in with an acceptable “net price”?
(net price should be 12K and under to be affordable, since your daughter could take the 5.5K loan in addition to your 5-6K contribution).

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That was an exceptionally useful post, @MYOS1634.

@farmgirl1961, it can be hard to winnow the wheat from the chaff on the internet, but MYOS1634 is a standout CC poster.

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@farmgirl1961 It’s normal for them to talk about wishing they could take this or that instead of that or this. My dd has spent the past two years wishing she could do AP or just regular US HS courses. She despises the IB (not doing full diploma but still has to take IB courses). Plus, her school offers a limited array of IB courses.

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In November 2017, her predicted grades were three 6’s and three 5’s with her targets set at four 6’s, one 7 and two 5.
She also has ACT and SAT scores, but will retake SATs this May in Cambridge.

When I went to the Uni of Edinburgh website, their tuition broke down that those from Scotland paid about 1,000 pounds for tuition and the rest of UK and EU students the roughly 9,000 pounds. There isn’t a public school in Scotland that offers IB…so I’m not sure how to make a move to Scotland work in our favor (but tell me more). Also, I’m sure I’m understanding the advanced highers sort of program. Can you explain or direct me to where I can learn about that?

Back to QuestBridge. I do think that we should try for the upcoming College Prep Scholars Program, but yes, I don’t know how competitive it will be. Can you elaborate on why it is so difficult to get into QuestBridge? Are there just too many applicants for X number of slots?

Wow – 40-50 colleges…At this point we may be at 10 (which would include a combination of UK and USA schools. I guess we’ll have to look deeper! I know that the instate public universities’ Honors Colleges could be great choices…I’m not sure my daughter is on that page…yet.

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Regarding having our children talk about which courses they do or don’t want to take is normal as is this angst of going through the college search process. My daughter doesn’t hate IB and is off to a great start. But she is finding IB SL math to be mostly a review. She is enjoying Bio, but would prefer to take Chemistry as she’s had a lot of Biology classes. She has an intense passion for learning and loves to be challenged. That’s not to say she’s not being challenged, but I think she wishes there were other course options, or new ones for next year.

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That IBD score prediction was based on her having done 2 months of the IBD? IBD predictions are to be taken with a grain of salt but I have never heard of a prediction after a few weeks into the IBD like that. Junior year (lower 6th) in IBD isn’t where it hurts.

<<<<<not as prestigious as the IB Diploma<<<<<<<<

Careful of not taking this into the realm of magical thinking, I can literally drive to 4 IBD programs in my area in the USA. I think the USA produces more IBD kids than the UK. . The IBD is great prep for being at uni, I don’t buy into the hype they sell here about it being especially superior for admissions.

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In the UK, as the students don’t get a diploma (like in the US), they don’t get term grades, just predicted scores based on how the student has performed thus far on assignments, quizzes, tests, etc. My daughter had been in school three months when the first eval went out. There will be another one in the spring that will hold more weight, as she would have been at the school, in Year 1 for 3/4 of the term. I do agree that they are to be taken with a grain of salt. It is just a measure at that moment in time.

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Op may end up not being eligible for Pell because primary residence is in the UK and house in Oregon as well as any rent collected will be considered income (which will probably raise EFC). Op most likely will not meet the criteria for simplified needs test where assets will not be counted.

Unfortunately, the net price calculator will not be accurate for Op’s situation.

Op may also not be a lock for test/application fee waivers. Op should contact college board directly to see how her D’s situation will be handled for fee waivers and do it sooner rather than later especially because D is not attending an American school overseas.

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OPs tax return is going to be complicated by foreign earned income, while that might not be an issue in FAFSA only schools (I am not sure about that) but CSS schools will look at it. Again making NPCs complicated.